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I don’t mean to drag this topic here endlessly, but it really fascinates me at this stage and I want to add my 2 cents. You have a very deep and well founded world view on these things, somewhat different observations than mine but that is what makes it interesting.
Eric I believe is a programmer
Lee has a background in mathematics and programming
Cartoox studied to be an engineer.
Uboot an architect.
Logic is concerned with the functional.
Romance and sex are concerned with the aesthetic. AGREED!
My work, having done this for nearly 20 years, has definitely affected my private live. It requires being constantly assertive, diligent, following procedures and quite frankly more often than I’d like reprimanding people. Testosterone levels are high in all players. All this does not set up for a relaxed, warm and fuzzy evening pickup sessions. Not an excuse, but a reality. It is probably a bit easier if you are a jazz player. I realize that my dominating and somewhat hostile demeanor perspires.
Introversion is just a manifestation of fear. I MUST DISAGREE.
I never feared anything (other than telling my son that I was getting divorced with his mom). Introversion = personality – something that we are born with and cannot be changed. It is a package that you are given tied to the chemical composition of your brain and hormones.
Extroverts get energized by being exposed to social situation, intros need to recharge after being exposed to same situations. Intors can cover up and learn to deal, but the underlying personality traits are not going to change. This translates into attraction too. I am never going to be attracted to an ostentatious party girl with verbal diarrhea even if she was the most attractive and even last women on earth.
Thanks much for the book recommendations and all your input. Great to have this bounced off of someone who gave it some thought.
Interesting thoughts. I somewhat agree, however I am not convinced it is due to those guy character traits. They are just being themselves, with all respect one is a friendly, goofy giant and the other is a born salesman who can chat up everyone to the point where he achieves his goal and takes no prisoners. I think the attraction from female perspective is instinctual, lizard brain kicks in – safety, protection etc. The two individuals put 0 effort.
My point being, is approach theory a self improvement or a cover up (I know this may not be the forum where claims like this a welcome)?
I was watching my salesman friend, I engaged with the same women and my conclusion was that if I had to do it every minute of every day like he does I’d be exhausted and probably depressed after a while.
It is like that book that I read about introverts utilizing certain technics to be accepted in extrovert oriented professions and work environments. All in all, the technics were ways to pretend to be someone you are not and trick your various senses to achieve an extrovert task. My conclusion was that bottom line there is us and them and there are no two ways about it.
Unfortunately, same principles that may cripple introverts in getting jobs cripple them in getting women. There isn’t anything constructive I am getting to here and I realize I may be going through a bit of the rough patch. The weather is turning and the fall blues is settling in. I also got hot out of the gate after reading Eric’s books and got burned out.
It would be extremely cool to at least be able to get acquainted to anyone you wish otherwise the missed opportunities are piling up. Not being able to knock them of there feet with the rapid fire coming out of my mouth or giant body I am going to have to explore some more.
- This reply was modified 1 year, 10 months ago by Uboot.
thanks Cartoox for the pick up (no pun intended:)
Sometime I wonder if we are not trying to swim upstream. Here we are coming up with elaborate schemes and technics and there seem to be just the guys who have girls. I doubt all the guys who you see with attractive girls make 4 approaches a day and have multi tier conversation schematic in their pocket.
I recently met two guys (both really nice btw)
One is a big muscular well built fella (300 lb 6’2″) Very average face, no fashion, practically no english – we went to couple bars, girls were tripping over themselves and I was sitting next to him scratching my head.
Second guy is 12 years older them me, former rugby player. We traveled together. He IS the guy who talks to everyone. great salesman. but he is fully committed with children which he doesn’t hide. Each time he finished the conversation I could see in the females eyes that she was disappointed that he was leaving.
I must admin that my personal lack of success combined with the two studs whois power I do not understand set me back a bit. The only difference that I see between me and them is really the figure. They are fairly well build and I am very skinny but utilize it with fashion.
Got little philosophical there but it starts to bother me. That and the fact that in my 150000 city so far I SAW 3 girls I liked in 7 months and never got to talk to any of them.
So there is finally a development to my drive by girl. I ended up pulling over and pretend to work in the car while waiting for her to appear in the distance. I had the lights on in the car, so she could see me as it is dusk now around the time she walks home. Headlights on and engine running.
As soon she approached the front of the car I dropped the pretend phonecall got out at said ‘Hi’ with an upbeat voice. She looked at me and smiled sincerely but didn’t stop. I continued getting out turned with her and said “hey I just wanted to say hello as I keep seeing you here” During all this the car is unfortunately still between us. She put her head down and screened me with long thick hair. I read it as avoidance so I let her be. I didn’t want to chase after her as she did not even slow down. I got back in the car and continued my pretend work so she could see me sticking around in case she looked back.
So that is that. Not great, not terrible – at least I took a shot and know what happened. I think, looking back the key was to get her to stop but it would have to be fairly aggressive. She definitely likes me, but she is either extra shy, not used to approaches, taken by surprise or maybe just too young and she knows it. So many unknowns.
The whole think took like 5 sec so not much to go on. Looking for some input, assessment, guideline or anything from the veterans.
Moving forward, I think I will wave at her as I drive by to keep it positive and show genuine interest but I doubt she is going to anything about it.
It actually gave me an idea. I may use my accent here at home to pose as a foreigner and then when we get to it admit that I lived here and I just wanted to talk to her. Let’s see if this will come back and bite me??:) Will look natural at least.
I am originally from Europe and it really depends where you go. In some countries like Italy or Spain flirting with strange girls is part of social norm in some places like eastern Europe you may end up getting punched in the face. Do your research and get the feel for the place. Europe is not uniform. Getting directions cannot hurt. I would start there, or ask for translation, it is more engaging and open ended. You can come up with something flirty too…
- This reply was modified 1 year, 11 months ago by Uboot.
this is a very interesting thread for me as I am still in the process of figuring it all out after being shelved for 17 years.
I witnessed some approaches and they look TERRIBLE from outside. The key is to make it natural and that leads to positioning -as discussed w/Eric recently. Natural and correct positioning comes with experience, so how do you get there without getting burned too much?
My last case and point. I am trying to approach this girl that I see as she walks back home as I drive from work (tough as Eric concurred lately) but I took a stab at it. First attempt as soon as I saw her, I passed her and immediately pulled over, jump out of the car and tried to catch up to her. The girl walks FAST. I realized that running would look very desperate, so I retreated. Second time I set a road block. I pulled over, waited and … she never came that day. Both cases would look awful to a witness. Luckly, there is hardly anyone ever there. This is way too much work for one girl though. Making it look natural is REALLLY hard. I was going to switch to direct but it is draining and I don’t feel like I have enough experience or frankly, confidence at this point. It is a setback. Love the challenge though. Lonely Christmas is around the corner, so I better figure something out quickly:)
Thanks Eric. I know New York is much more pedestrian friendly than most NA cities. I think I may have to go bold. I think I will pull over when I see her in the distance and pop the hood when she walks by…ask her something. Than I’ll just say that the car was fine and I just wanted to talk to her. She is either going to see humor in this theater or I will crush and burn. I’ll report back.
What I was referring to at the end was that you guys seem to be able to come up with a witty, site specific reaction to seeing someone attractive very quickly – mid sentence as Lee said once. On several occasions I also heard that thinking was an enemy. For me it takes a couple of seconds too long to realize that I like her, where we are, what she’s wearing and other circumstances that might matter to come up with a sensible angle.
So what is the process in your head? It is that you pick a set based on experience or you just have enough experience to open your mouth and have faith that what comes out makes some sort of sense.
I am an introvert so I tend to move around in my own bubble. When I am out of the bubble I can be very effective but get depleted of energy quickly. There is no way I would have enough energy for 5 or 6 approaches a day. I get sort of ‘done’ with girls after a couple unless someone really intrigues me.
Enough about me. Thanks again for quick response. Your and Lee’s approach really resonates with me. I hope to join you for some training in future.
Do you guys have any videos from the missions that you were on? I would kill to see Eric or Lee in real action.
I think it is going to be fun. Thanks Eric!
The season is not really on my side but I may be able to lure them in with the prospect of heat being on:)
I think the main thing is to make your game your own. There are tons of stiff, creepy guys trying to use some elaborate techniques. It creeps me out to watch them not to mention the women who they approach. Making it natural and unenforced is the main trick and I touch one. It is almost a self-improvement thing more then a manipulation technique. I, for one, learned that I do not have AA but a situational anxiety. Never knew, for 30 some years.
I live in western Canada. There are definitely cities that attract very hot women, capitals, financial hubs etc. In my case it is not necessarily that I do not see ‘hot women’ I just don’t meet many on daily basis that I would like to be with, hence I feel no pressure. Once in a while, I do see one that I am intriguing by and this is where the problems begin. I loose my cool.
I am probably a bit spoiled, a bit skewed by having had a hot wife and some of it is what Eric pointed out – a well hidden, covered up anxiety that I learned to overcome over the last 25 years being exposed to high pressure social interactions at work. New romantic prospects is were everything comes undone.It is extremely frustrating.
Beauty is very relative. I actually do not find most common beauties out the attractive, some literally repulse me having been around for few years.
What I am looking for is rare and hence all the pressure when one comes around.
I’ll throw another one here. I am trying to identify all my weaknesses.
I read this post on your forum ‘How many girls can you approach in half an hour?’ and it touches on warmth in opening a girl.
One thing about me is warmth doesn’t really work with my physique and personality. If you can invision this, I am a tall and skinny Arian type with square jaw and small shaved head.
Silliness, excessive laugh, cuddly attitude, overly caring language is not part of the DNA.
It worked for me 20 years ago. I was cold and girls where tripping over them shelves to get my attention. Now, objectives changed and I find my stoic persona may be less attractive, easier to overlook
I tried being warmer and it feels and I think looks stupid in my case. Any thoughts?
- This reply was modified 2 years ago by Uboot.
Whoa, there is some gold there Eric.
I definitely need to recon more and lock in on some locations, otherwise I get discouraged wondering around aimlessly. I read your last post, very good.
You hit the nail on the head with age appropriate approach. I think my mistake was that I came hot out of the gate after my divorce, one because I’ve forgotten that I was out of the game for 16 years and two I was just really horny. All in all, didn’t got too well. I think I was sending mixed messages and need to streamline more now.
The only comment that I have when it comes to qualifying women at my age is that, being women, they sometimes feel judged or intimidated or insecure and end up clinging on to sillier, easier boys. The women who are up to the task are ‘higher shelf’ and therefore unobtainable. I need to do more research on qualifying technics and this whole angle…tips? resources?
One observation that I want to share with other readers my age is beware of easy targets. If the woman is too keen and is between 30-40 it means that she either wants children yesterday or is after money…just something to keep in mind.
Banter is no go my age, I agree with you Eric 100%. It just comes out stupid. I am trying to come up with more mature ways to keep the ladies entertained.
And the price goes to:
“As an older guy, showing too much interest early on is a death knell”
I couldn’t agree more. Which often means you don’t show enough interest and she moves on, or your pinned up energy takes the better of you and the cat if out of the bag – game over.
Definitely, different shades to the game as you get older.
Let me throw couple more things into the mix.
Any thoughts, input on value or disadvantages of age and accent?
I am 40 but aged very well, matured. Any angles there?
I do have some accent over my English, which I think can work both way…it may deter some, but for some may also be intriguing especially as I am in a design field which plays well with international crowd and is nothing uncommon.
I am just fishing for some hints and experiences from you and other to come up with my own special receipe as some standard material may not work well in my circumstances. Some may be better suited for native speakers with smoother talking skills while I pray mostly on curiosity, status and interest.