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You mention “special girl.” Not everyone is made for a single, exclusive relationship. In fact the whole polyamory/ polygamous thing is becoming much more popular these days because more and more people are realizing they can’t be 100% satisfied with just one person.
So maybe that’s true for you too. Maybe you could be in a relationship with a woman, but still sleep with others (and the same for your partner).
What you have to remember is that no one is perfect. You will never meet the perfect girl. She doesn’t exist. You will, however, meet some amazing, beautiful, smart and lovely women.
This relates to this idea of not “valuing” a girl when she has sex too soon. That Madonna/ whore kind of thing is very common in our culture, but it’s very destructive (in my view) because it makes sex (and women’s sexuality especially) a really big deal. And it plays right into the idea of “the perfect woman.”
If sex was not a big accomplishment or achievement then maybe you would be able to see a girl as long term potential even if she had sex quickly.
The truth is, you’re a very sexual guy with strong urges, so any girl who would be compatible with you long term would have to be very sexual as well.
As far as actually finding that long term partner (whether exclusive or nonexclusive), it’s a risk. Just like the risks you took when you first started picking up girls, this is risky territory. Except the risk now is of a more emotional nature. You have to be willing to really open up, let her in, and run the risk of her rejecting you, the real you, instead of the game/ sexual escalation version of you.
It’s definitely another level of game, beyond just the ability to get laid (which you have already got handled).
I actually plan on writing more about this on my blog.
Hope that helps.
On this that you mentioned:
“I’m always trying to move things fast. But I wonder if I move too fast sometimes. Because if I do, I feel like the girl knows all I want is sex.”
But is that all you want?
I totally hear you and I’ve definitely been in the same place as what you’re describing in the rest of your comment.
Let me offer you a different perspective on this issue. If what you really want is sex, then maybe you shouldn’t be taking girls out at all. Or if you do, then really lay on the sexual energy in the approach and even over text so that it’s clear exactly what you want beforehand. If she isn’t down for that, then she won’t meet up with you and you don’t waste your time.
But if you want to take girls out and spend nonsexual time with them, then you don’t have to get sexual early on. And accept a longer time frame before sex happens.
The problem with a lot of guys is they want to have their cake and eat it too: they don’t want to take the risk of expressing strong sexual desire and risk being rejected, but they expect the girl to be highly sexualized and go to bed quickly.
When you mention “I flirt with them give them little hints” honestly to me that just sounds like you’re not being clear enough. You think it’s obvious, but it’s not. In her mind, you’re a guy who is attracted to her, great–that doesn’t tell her whether you want quick sex tonight or sex over the course of 3 weeks and 5 dates.
The unfortunate fact is that many or most women put guys into one of two categories: (1) quick sex/ fun/ one night stand, (2) boyfriend/ relationship potential. Threading the needle between these two (a casual/ open but still longer term relationship) is not impossible, but it is much less common and hard to do.
Just today, I take a girl out. We grab a coffee, go for a walk. I make the move she backs away saying this is not what she thought was gonna happen and that she just wanted to be friends.
This is EXACTLY, almost word for word, what happened to me one time. Haha. The thing is, I thought it had been obvious when I met her that I was interested sexually. But in hindsight, it really wasn’t that obvious–I hadn’t said anything particularly sexual, and there had been no physical contact.
Consider what you’re really saying to the girls, the message they’re hearing. You want to filter out the incompatible girls to not waste your time.
This is always an interesting phenomenon (in my opinion anyway), and I’ve written about it before.
Here are some possibilities:
1. Yes, it could have been bad sex in her opinion
2. She may have decided she made a “mistake” again and wanted to cut things off and put it all behind her
3. She may be conflicted about the whole thing in light of her other experiences, so she’s very uncertain/ hesitant
4. She may just be very fucked up in terms of her sex life right now–she can’t resist hot guys but she’s not being responsible with her own emotions
5. She may genuinely just be busy and wants you to keep taking the initiative
6. She may just need some space before seeing you again
Any or all of these could apply.
I think given what you told her about not wanting a relationship (which was awesome BTW–a lot of guys would not say that), and her going ahead with the sex anyway, she’s seeing you as exactly that: a potential fuck buddy. So making plans for the day after contradicts that, and smells more like a relationship.
If you want a fuck buddy, keep it to once per week. And don’t text that frequently.
It’s too premature to call it quits. I would wait a few days, try her again (maybe even try her a few more times over the next few weeks–just 2 or 3 text messages over 3 weeks or so, can’t really hurt). Depending on how much effort you want to make. After that leave it.
This is an interesting question. For me, sex is all about being totally in the moment and not thinking about anything. It’s purely about action and reaction, for both you and her. It sounds like you’re not really putting yourself into the present moment and you’re analyzing what’s happening like there’s a narrator in your head.
I wouldn’t say anything that you don’t feel like saying or that feels unnatural. There’s no real “rules” here, it’s just whatever you feel like doing or saying. But the key is you have to own it 100% and not second-guess yourself. The only thing matters is your pleasure and her pleasure.
So the question you want to ask yourself is, what do you REALLY want to say during sex with her?
Eric has some great articles on getting more sexual in the conversation and moving away from the boring topics/ vibe. You can also check out the guys of Daygame.com and Justin Wayne on Youtube to see how they turn up the heat in their daytime approaches. There are lots of different styles that can work. A lot of it comes down to your nonverbals (strong body language/ physical presence, getting close enough to her, lowering your voice, eye contact, etc). Even a tame/ “boring” verbal conversation can have sexual energy with the right nonverbals.
The benefit of talking to people everywhere is that it keeps you warmed up and gives you great momentum going into an approach. It’s all about practice and experience, just like anything else. When you see the hot girl, instead of needing to start from scratch with that conversational energy, you already have it, so it becomes effortless. So conversation in general (with friends, strangers, cashiers, sales clerks, etc) is definitely something for you to think about.
Basic conversation skills come first, and then spicy/ sexual conversation is added on top of that.
Also a little light touching can go a long way, even with otherwise simple conversation. Checkout this approach experiment I wrote about on my blog:
Some general principles I will throw out there: outcome independence, self amusement, saying whatever pops into your head, being present to the moment, being willing to take a risk and say something crazy, speaking off the cuff without thinking, and being willing to fail or say the wrong thing from time to time. It’s all about loosening up and having fun. You have to be willing to try, fail, learn, and improve for the next time. Hope that helps.
Lee is right in that a direct opener is not a real conversation starter. It’s really just a way to (a) get her attention and make clear “I’m talking to you now”, and (b) to make it clear that you’re sexually interested (and this is important if you have trouble generating sexual energy otherwise–HOWEVER, just using a direct opener only for the sake of conveying sexuality is a crutch that you must ultimately get rid of), and (c) it shows confidence and balls.
Whether direct or indirect, I’m for whatever works for the individual (and I think Lee and I have debated this in the past, and the overall importance of words vs. action in general). Success depends on a lot of factors–your personality, your looks, fashion, conversation skills, willingness to play the numbers game, etc.
Let me ask you this Tay. You’ve gotten over the approach anxiety, but the issue is basically starting a conversation, right? Question: How often do you talk to strangers in general in your daily life? I’ve found that guys who have trouble having conversations with strange women usually have trouble having conversations with strangers, period.
Otherwise, I suggest observe everything around you and especially the girl–compliment her on something she’s wearing, ask what’s happening in her day (does she look like she’s in a rush? strolling leisurely? going to work? going to the beach?), share what’s happening in your day/ your life, what’s on your mind, some interesting story, an observation or remark on something that’s happening in the environment, etc. Mix questions and statements–not too much of either.
Lee’s topics are good to come up with some material to have in your back pocket in case you go blank.
But I am an advocate of spontaneity and being in the moment, while having an overall structure for leading things forward–I think that should be your eventual goal.
Check out the daygame.com infield videos on Youtube because they do direct game street stops exactly like what you’re doing, and they have some pretty good material on transitioning and conversation. (pay attention to their body language and nonverbals too infield because that’s very important)
You probably just need more approaches to get more data points, like you said. Your physical escalation sounds good for day game. If you’re meeting girls in bars/ night game, you can usually do even more.
I would say, experiment with fun, crazy shit in the conversations and see what works for you/ your personality. Take some risks to break out of that safe place you’ve put yourself in where you’re able to have normal, polite conversations with girls consistently (which admittedly is a very addictive place to be).
Good luck man.
Usually if you’re opening direct AND touching her AND specifically asking to meet up for a drink/ hang out again, she will get the message.
What about your physical escalation on the date? That’s really an important factor. I’ve gone out with girls, didn’t really touch them very much, and there was just a very nonsexual energy as a result. Getting physical is way more important than flirting even.
But for flirting/ being playful specifically, Eric has some really good articles on that. Usually just one or two per conversation is good enough, no need to overdo it. It’s all about spontaneity and creativity; having a playful attitude; being willing to challenge or tease her in a fun way; not worrying about impressing her, rather just being in your own world and being self-amused.
Lee is right, if you build up those basic conversation skills and dress at least normal and come across as a normal guy, there’s no reason you can’t get phone numbers from, say, 80% of the women you ask.
However, phone numbers and dates are two different animals.
At one point I got around 30% date success rate from bona fide solid cold approaches. To clarify: these were approaches where I got into a legitimate conversation with the woman for at least several minutes. So it does not include quick approaches that didn’t hook. Moreover I was selecting very specific women in very specific circumstances–typically stationary women (either standing in place or sitting down), who were alone, which really cut down on my options.
My overall, long term date success rate seems stuck right around that 10% mark. However, I stress again context matters. In certain situations and venues, I have a much higher success rate than in others.
It’s just a question of what kinds of women you’re approaching, and what you’re trying to get.
Social circle game will always deliver a higher success rate for everything (kissing, dates, sex), because of the greater comfort/ familiarity.
I’ve had a surprising number of cases where I randomly ran into girls that I had approached before and gotten contact info (and asked her out, and she did not bite). Each time, it seemed like maybe there was a chance to re-spark the interest. But each time, I never actually met up with her. This case looks like it might be similar. Although good job with the instant date.
I agree with Lee, you’ve invested a lot already. It’s her turn to step up to the plate and invest back. (It’s quite possible she’s just been enjoying the validation the whole time: She’s flattered that you want to kiss her, but has no desire to actually go through with it.)
One way to split the difference might be to mention a group activity you’re doing (going out with a bunch of friends on the weekend for instance), and say “you’re welcome to come.” That way you don’t show too much interest and you give her the chance to take some initiative.