What women really want – The science not the bullshit

[ryano]

Now, if you want a life-long partner? be skeptical. be VERY skeptical.

But if you’re a man that just wants some adventure in his life. sheesh. that’s the worst thing you can do.

[MrAntiquity]

Ok–but a big part of this isn’t the challenging/not challenging but the fact that since you feel that it works for you, you are able to fully buy into your approach. That’s why it “works”–because you’re confident in the presentation, invested in it, and most iportantly, believe it. You can also be confident in presenting skepticism. Plus since Lee’s been doing that method for a long time, it sounds like he really IS skeptical (i.e. not phony at all).

As for me, I don’t see why I can’t be direct and challenging at the same time. As I’ve said before, I see the challenge business, which includes calling people out on bullshit, all as part of a pretty standard dating ritual…a lot of people don’t do it, but that’s usually because they’re scared to or it’s socialized out of them, or whatever..

[ryano]

What you’re describing as challenging is different. You can call girls out on stuff sure.

But he’s taking it to a whole new level. What he’s saying is phony. He’s acting like he has no sexual interest in a hot girl. He’s actually convinced himself he isn’t because he Thinks that’s what girls value. He’s taken his true nature out of himself.

but i can see through it. I know it’s fake. put him on an island with a hot young girl and I want to see him act like he’s not interested until she “proves” herself. what a load of crap.

the only value you have is your honesty. if you can’t even get that right what value are you left with? the ability to tell a story?

[ryano]

guys that are truly valuable dont need to make up stories about value. think elon musk or hugh hefner or einstein or michael jordan or bill gates or anybody of great value. their value is in what they’ve accomplished in life not in knowing how to “game” people.

[MrAntiquity]

It’s not phony if you’re actually skeptical. And while it is phony if you’re NOT actually skeptical and do just want to get laid, the point of it is really to help guys get over this notion that women are somehow these magic unicorn beings light years above them who they can never get. As you often say, that’s a myth that most guys buy into for some reason.

Personally, I LIKE the challenging aspect–it fits with my personality, and it’s a way to easily shift the conversation from basic chatter to something more charged–and that’s a good thing. It’s also a way to shift to something more direct/honest–and that’s also a good thing. It helps me. Do I think that the girls I’ve dated have been interestsed in me because I was skeptical of them? Not particularly. But not being bowled over by them certainly allowed me to continue being myself, maintaining composure, and in a few instances move things forward.

[ryano]

yeah but that has nothing to do with skeptical that’s just recognizing that you’re a person with value and they’re a person with value too. why degrade them to feel good about yourself?

[SomeguyUK]

Even if you just want to get laid, I can still see the benefit in having standards and being fussy over who you spend your time with. What’s more valuable than your free time?

I have gone to lengths to sleep with girls that, in the long run, I thoroughly regretted giving my time and energy too. I would honestly rather just jerk off and spend time with my friends and family than waste it on girls like that again. So I think having standards outside of looks is important.

[ryano]

I don’t know about you, but it takes me a very short time to assess the type of person I’m dealing with and deciding if I should pursue them or not. I’m talking in the minutes here.

I’m pretty sure it’s the same for other guys, like Hurricane. The girl he gave an example with the dialogue for the book. That was a phony challenge. Meaning, she could’ve probably answered that in any way and he would still be pursuing her. The argument here is that he’s doing that for her, not for him. Meaning, he wants to “qualify” her. Kind of like in that article you gave with TenMagnet. These are guys that know they want to hang out with the girl yet they create scenarios for perceived value mainly so the girl can see that they’re “choosy”. But it’s an illusion.

So my assumption for what we’re talking about here is that you’re actually interested in pursuing the girl. Now how do you go about and get her? All I’m saying is that I don’t need to bullshit them. They know you want to fuck them. They just prefer guys (from my experience) that don’t hide behind that fact.

[The_Hurricane]

What! That example of a conversation that I posted is as real as it gets. Those are my real interests! I ask about things that matter to me. You know how excited I get when a girl has read The Brothers Karamazov or when she has some legitimate insight into why men cheat? I know our date is not going to be boring. Otherwise, all I’m thinking is wow, this girl is hot, but do I really want to waste 2 or 3 hours on her before sex and another two after? I’m 50. How many such evenings do I have left in my life? 10 years * 2 evenings per week * 52 weeks. A little over a thousand, maybe. I have to spend one of them on a boring bimbo? No thanks, bro. Approaching is cheap. Dates eat up time. I’m going to select for not only the hottest but also the most interesting women.

–Lee

[ryano]

Yeah.. I bet the women you talk to would also find it exciting that you’re having essentially the same conversation to the letter with all of the other people you engage in about the brothers kasmorov or whatever the heck that book is. that im sure noone in this forum has heard of much less doe eyed 20 year old co-eds. why not be, you know, normal? where you don’t have to make a hollywood scene script with every woman you talk to?

anyways congrats on dumbing this arguing down to what we can all agree on: to have a back bone and seek the women that you actually like.

but back to the argument at hand, you said that hot women only want relationships, not sex. if anything it’s the hot 20 somethings that are looking for wild nights of orgies and the 30 plus crowd that is looking to get shackled up because of the biological clock. dont get it twisted.

[The_Hurricane]

It’s the guys who are having a different conversation with every woman who I consider to be the real chameleons. My interests are my interests and they don’t change just because I meet some hottie. Does a woman want a man who knows what he wants and isn’t changing his tastes for every bimbo in a short skirt? Hell yes! And yes, study after study clearly shows that the more attractive the woman, the fewer sexual partners she will have in her lifetime.

–Lee

[ryano]

One of the things I’ve learned especially about people is that you’re not gonna change their opinions about things. Instead, I’d rather talk to people that actually understand what I’m talking about. Just like I’m sure there’s those that vibe with what you’re saying as well. That’s what my whole ‘The Mindset’ post is all about. And how due to the sheer magnitude of people in the world you’ll always find people that agree and go along with what you’re saying or doing and some don’t. Just like musicians that polarize different people in the world where some like their music and some hate their music, regardless those musicians become millionaires (for example, think of jay-z and how many people can’t stand his music yet how many people love his music). It simply appeals to different tastes. Finding people with similar interests and avoiding people that differ in their opinions is really the only way forward to avoid wasting time and finding harmony in life. So I’ll just end this with “you’re right, have a nice day”. 🙂

[The_Hurricane]

I prefer some disagreement on this site. It makes my own voice more credible. So it’s all good.

–Lee

[equilibrium48]

Woah what a heated thread lol. Very insightful having two interesting points of view.

What i assume from reading this is that Ryano is more of a ‘lets escalate and go for the bang each and every time’ kind of guy. I think you’ve mentioned before that you’re in a relationship. Did your methodology help you with that relationship or did you have to tweak it?
In my opinion, going for sex and escalating is great if thats all you want. But getting a quality girl that you’d want to have a LTR with would be hard using that mindset, no?

And for Lee. You’re 50 so i presume you’re more of ‘let’s qualify and challenge to see if she’s worthy of investing into and having a relationship with’ kind of guy. Even if you were single i doubt you’d be into one night stands now. You’d probably look for a girl with similar interests to spend time with and form a healthy relationship with. Back when you were in your 20’s, what mindset did you have?
Like if you wanted just to get laid (and thats all you wanted, no relationship, nothing) would you still use your same approach (ex. Asking if she read your favorite book or had other similar interests?) True, you may want to be selective with who you decide to penetrate but if sex is your only objective then does the other stuff matter?

I think thats the difference between you two. Both of your methods work but i assume you both want different outcomes which causes you to use different techniques.

[ryano]

equilib, yeah some good points here. yes I was in a few ltr’s but the method I mentioned above isn’t really about that. that’s what I wrote about it to show that what he wrote about hot girls wanting -only- relationships is false. people have different “what they want” stages in life. and they switch all the time:

the two roles are:
1. I want a relationship
2. I want to fuck

they don’t have to be mutually exclusive. but generally, you can make them be mutually exclusive if you don’t give the girl anything to base you on as far as being boyfriend material. and of’course girls have their “fuck” moments. sometimes they just want some dick. it happens all the time.

but the moment you make yourself known as more bf material then anticipate both her and yourself to start judging eachother more. this can of’course be detrimental to sex. for example, let’s say you’re looking for an LTR and one of the “checklists” that you have is that the girl atleast went to college. that means if you find a hot girl that didn’t go to college, you’ll next her. but if you’re just looking for sex, of’course you won’t.

so basically. know what role you’re in. I had a time where I didn’t want a relationship because I got out of one, and all I wanted to do was live out my childhood fantasies of having loads of sex with many different girls even girls that weren’t “right” from me. so girls of different social classes, girls with personalities that weren’t a good match for me, different races, girls of different ages, and so forth- just cause i wanted to experiment.

so i became just interested in sex. for girls that you aren’t interested in the long term with, that’s how you can get as much sex as you possibly imagine. because nobody judges eachother in this role.

you essentially do everything that indicates that you’re NOT boyfriend material. heck, you can even tell them that you’re not looking for a long term relationship they’ll probably suck your dick then and there.

hah, this reminds me of another story. a few years back, I remember back when i didn’t know what the hell i was doing. when i’d play stupid games with girls. so I had this girl that I met at a bar. we would play stupid games with each other. like sometimes i’d txt her but she wouldn’t answer. sometimes she’d txt me but i wouldn’t answer. and so forth. I think we met up on like one date or something where nothing happened. at tha at point i wasn’t even aware i should “Escalate” etc. (i was a newb). anyway, I think she wanted a relationship with me so she was teasing me. i guess it was her way to be “high value” or something. but quite truthfully i didn’t want a relationship with her just cause i wasn’t really in that stage of my life to want one, but she was a hot good looking girl. i remember she told me she wanted to talk one day before she went to her work party. and she told me, “I find it hard to read what you’re wanting from this. are you looking for a relationship or just a fling?”. and i’m the type of person that just can’t lie to people especially when they ask me something so blatant. so i just looked at her. “I just want to have sex with you and nothing else.” so she looked at me dumbfounded and she left to her party.
i’m not even kidding you, the same girl that was playing games with me for the last few days, about 2-3 hours later after we had that conversation I get a simple text message from her: “i’m coming over”. she came over, we immediately started making out, and fucked like rabbits. go figure.

so basically.. if you don’t take her out, you don’t go to a restaurant, you don’t buy her anything. instead, you make it to be all about sex, you just escalate, you’re very sexual around her, etc. hell, you even tell her that you’re not about sex. You’ll find that there’s so many girls that are looking for just that. even girls that are looking for relationships don’t “mind” to just have a random sexual fling just to “release”.

the power of this is that girls that won’t be normally attracted to you in an ltr won’t be as judgemental because they know that you’re just going to be a small part of their lives. and girls that ARE looking for an ltr, also won’t judge you or give you as much of a hard time cause they just see you as an easy layup, ie a walking human dildo.

it’s kind of like the mindset people have in vegas or other travel destinations where they know they’re probably not gonna meet their next wife/husband so their criteria become a bit more lax. but you can do this even in your local town by just giving off that vibe.

now what if i was looking for an ltr, would I do the same thing? what if I found actually found the girl of my dreams, the girl that checks all the notches? the girl that I actually think there’s a real potential with? where LOVE rears its head. and yes, I do believe in love. :>

quite truthfully, I wouldn’t have to do much. love conquers all, it’s the killer of game. it doesn’t matter what you do. you can have sex with them in the first date. or you can have sex with them after a month. love knows no boundaries. if you’re right for eachother, you both will pretty much forgive eachother no matter what happens. so being sexual won’t really hinder it. but quite truthfully, I probably WOULDN’T want to JUST be sexual with a girl like that. I’d probably want to take my time, and take her out, and just spend time with her, and talk to her, and hang out with her, and stuff like that.

But if you treat all girls like that, they get a mixed message. they start seeing you as a potential bf they start judging you etc. so if you make a wrong move, they just stop talking to you. and you definitely won’t get sex.

so to sum it up, this depends on the girl. and what i’m after. my default mode is “sexual” but if i spot a girl that I do see a potential with, I ease up a bit. for girls that I don’t see a potential with, I crank up the sex. if that makes any sense. hah.

[Author]

Posts