street game

[purplelake]

Hi Lee, Firstly I like your way of thinking. You see things clearly, analyze and give simple comments.
Secondly, I want to mention about my sticking point in the streets.
I made street approaches using “ where is nearest starbucks” opener and for transition “ you have accent”, “you have nice style” etc. From streets I wasn’t able to get any number until now. I made probably 50 approaches. My approach: Girl and me walk in opposite way, when she is 3 meters away I open, she stops and turn to me, I turn to her as well, and we are face to face. If I use “where is near starbucks” as the opener, they answer in the shortest possible way, and it kills my vibe. After opener I use transition. I say “you have different style, accent” etc. They dont hook and want to continue the conversation. If I would use the same method for the standing girls, they would hook probably. Maybe I should use false time constraint on street. It would show them I will not take their time and Im not seller or bum on street.

I am not able to kill their momentum on street. In addition, I dont have courage to use direct for the girls 15 years younger than me(Im 35+). On streets If I get more aggressive and continue to talk after opener, I feel like creepy, I easily eject. I see the girl start moving, and I dont want to take their time I guess.

I guess street game needs more direct style, I have difficulty to get number from street game by using indirect approach. Is there any visible fault in my approach, your criticism could be nice for me.

[The_Hurricane]

Here is how direct openers work. All of the literature on social dynamics tells us that the fact that you’re attracted to someone does nothing to make them attracted to you. In fact, the opposite is true. If we are too attracted to them, they will be less attracted to us. However, when you’re bold enough to tell a woman that you are attracted to her, what you’re really doing is asking for an almost immediate judgement on her part. Subjecting yourself to judgement requires balls for which you get some points.

Unless you’re good looking or bring some other kind of value – eg you’re the main speaker at a conference or you just walked into a restaurant with two beautiful women by your side – you don’t usually get enough points to seal the deal, but you do get some. The problem, as stated above, is that while you are getting some points, you are also losing some: if she thinks you’re sold on her but she’s not sold on you, you’re going to be perceived as less valuable. This is why when the best guys go direct, they almost immediately start working to reverse the power dynamic so they can establish that they are not completely sold.

For older guys, this is hard to do. When a much older man goes direct with a much younger woman, it is hard to plausibly make the case that he is not already sold on her. Why? Because both parties know that a 40 year old man might prefer a 20 year old woman to a 35 year old woman for one reason and one reason only, her looks. She’s not more interesting or more accomplished than 35 year olds, but she’s usually hotter. He already knows all about her looks so if she believes that’s what he mostly cares about, her assumption that he is already sold is going to be hard to change. Even if you’re not already sold, she’s going to assume you are.

This is why I advise most older men not to go direct. You can’t really hide attraction. Your body will give you away. But with indirect, you can more easily control the frame by showing that your attraction is tempered by a high degree of skepticism that the woman standing in front of you is really good enough for your attention.

This is how to understand this: there are probably some strippers that I might think are super hot, but I seriously doubt I would ever want to go on a date with one. This is the dividing line between pure physical attraction and real interest. When a woman meets a man with the right combination of physical attraction and skepticism, she intuitively understands that she is dealing with a high value man. Such men have high standards, and women find that extremely attractive.

If you’re going to do street stops and you’re not going direct, you’re going to need a reason to stop her, and directions are a pretty good reason. The problem with directions is that when you do try to transition to a more personal conversation, you often get that “oh now I know why you asked me for directions” look. In other words, they realize not only that you didn’t stop them for the purpose of asking directions but also that you didn’t have the balls to tell them the truth. So you get neither the points you’d get in a direct approach nor the frame control you’d get with an indirect approach.

So what’s the solution? In my opinion, the solution is to make the transition more natural. Here is how I think it should go:

1) Ask for complicated directions, directions they can’t just blurt out as they move on. “Hey, quick question. How would I get to the castle in Central Park?” That’s a place in New York that’s kinda tricky to get to.

2) If they take the time to give you those complicated directions, or at least discuss the problem with you, you can say: “Thank you. That was very nice of you. This is a pretty friendly city. Do you agree?”

3) At this point, if they’re open to chatting, they’re going to say yes or no. It really doesn’t matter. If they comment at all, you can tell them a little story. “You know, I have this friend who’s really interested in understanding people. When he’s out and about and sees someone eating, he’ll walk up to them and say ‘Hey, can I have the last bite of that?’ You know what’s amazing? Almost no one says ‘No’. He says he can count on one hand the number of angry reactions he’s gotten over the years.” (By the way, that friend is me. I love doing that!)

4) When you tell that story, they usually laugh or want to know if your friend really takes the last bite, or whatever. Let them chime in before you move on and say “Anyway, you look like you might be the kind of person who might give away your last bite.” Look her up and down and say “What do you do, sister? Do you sing, do you dance, do you read, do you write?”

Why do I think this works better than a cold read or a compliment? It’s a smoother transition from what you asked for to what you wanted. It goes ‘directions’ to ‘thank you’ to ‘that’s very nice of you’ to ‘this is a nice city’ to ‘funny story about friend’ to something more personal. And it does it without that “oh you’ve been deceiving me all along” moment.

—Lee

[-Humz-]

Lee, you are absolutely brilliant.

Humz

[purplelake]

Wow, very deep as expected from Lee. Actually, I prefer streets, because number of girls are more than enough to build momentum. I prefer indirect, because I am at least 10 years older than the girls I approach, as you clarified well. On the other hand, though I am able to get numbers in closed places like bookstores, supermarkets etc., I have difficulty on the streets.
My sticking point is killing their momentum on the street, because they are going somewhere, and they already have an agenda in their mind. If I say “Do you agree” and they give short answer, what is the best thing to do? Many girls are not “yes” girls and they are reluctant to initiate conversation with strangers on the street. Girl doesn’t know anything about me in the beginning. Do you think, I should assume there will be interest if I continue talking , even though she doesn’t comment at all. In addition, in order to apply what you suggest, body positioning is very important I guess.

[The_Hurricane]

You can’t do much about the momentum. If they’re moving fast and you stop them for directions, most of them will give you the minimum. As you get more comfortable and your body language starts to reflect presence and confidence, more of them will be willing to stop. If you ask for complicated directions as I advised above, you’re at least filtering out the ones who can’t slow down long enough to listen to you.

When you say “This is a very friendly city. Do you agree?” be prepared to tell your story regardless of their answer. Just give them enough time to respond, and if it’s a yes or a no, keep going with your story. If they’re receptive to talking, it’s the story that will get a longer reaction, usually some laughter.

I prefer standing sets and seated sets. Walking sets are so much harder.

–Lee

[purplelake]

Finding standing or sitting sets is more difficult than moving sets in the city where I live. No subway, no big parks, etc.
I generally daygame solo, and when I find a good set after walking alone for long time, I am not in social mood.
This makes the conversation difficult. If I talk 2-3 sets in short period of time, it becomes easier.
Thats why I prefer streets in the last months for daygame venue. On the other hand, most girls are moving which makes approaching more difficult.

How do you manage your mood, if you daygame solo? Actually you live in NYC, maybe its not difficult to find many approachable sets in short time interval.

[ryano]

Here’s a few of my tips. I’ve done thousands of street approaches:

1. you sound like you do the same stuff every time when you open them. that’s bad. daygame and street approaches esp is mainly about improvisation. try to do different openers and different types of approaches. If you find yourself doing the SAME thing then you’re not there yet. I always do different styles of openers (direct, indirect, situational, or things that don’t even make sense). I open with just about everything. One exercise I like to do is think of any opener and then I just tell them that and I’ll try my best to make it work. It’s really not the opener as much as it is being able to generate a conversation from it. for example, sometimes I’ll say “excuse me? know where I can get some sunglasses?” or other times I might say “hey, I really like your sunglasses, where’d you get them?” But I hardly ever repeat the openers. they’re always different.

2. “In addition, I dont have courage to use direct for the girls 15 years younger than me(Im 35+).”
This is weak and is merely a limiting belief. I do daygame for exactly the reason that I can approach girls MUCH younger than me. It’s one of the reasons I don’t bother with online dating and the reason why daygame is my #1 choice.

3. FUCK WITH PEOPLE. know how to be a good actor and how to generate conversations even if it means blatantly lying to them. This is especially true when you go indirect. When you ask them a question, make sure you COMPLICATE it to death so they have no choice but to talk to you for a minute or two.

For example:
ME: hi, excuse me. know where there’s a good coffee shop in the area?
HER: hmm, well there’s a starbucks across the street
ME: well no, I’m not looking for a starbucks.. I’d rather have something local. starbucks coffee makes me too high strung. is there anything closeby? [here I throw in a complication: she cannot solve my question so I tell her I don’t like starbucks, similarly I could’ve told her that starbucks doesn’t have fast WIFI, or a million other reasons why I “hate” starbucks]
HER: well there’s XXX place 2 blocks away
ME: does that place have a patio. it’s a nice day today.. I kind of feel like sitting outside? [another complication: now I’m looking for a patio]
HER: well blablabla
ME: where do you usually go? [this is the transition and basically starts getting a bit more personal]

So the general format is:
indirect question, complication, complication, transition
– try to make the complications flirtatious or teasing.

the transition is not easy especially if you’re a beginner. if you’re good at teasing that could also be a way to transition. because the moment you make her laugh it’s way easier to ask her a personal question for example:

ME: wow, you’re a local here and you don’t even know any good coffee places? do you just go to the library or something?
[so the tease was her not knowing any good coffee places and she SHOULD]

4. You NEED to do direct approaches if you want to get better at street. I don’t care if you’re 30 40 50 60. Be comfortable complimenting girls and trying to get into conversations with them. You can walk alongside them as you do this. Don’t kid yourself, some girls will be taken aback and keep walking. but these rejections are exactly why I like doing daygame it’s fun when they get mad and brings a smile to my face. 🙂

5. Do openers where you DON’T need to EXPLAIN why you’re hitting on them. For example, sometimes I’ll walk next to a girl and tap her gently and just say “Hey, what music are you listening to?” because it’s so random the girl knows I’m hitting on her so I don’t even need an excuse. She usually just answers and we get into a conversation about music as we’re both just walking. similarly, I might walk next to a girl and ask her where I can get nice jeans, just to start a conversation.

6. Learn to be situational. if you see something a girl is wearing or doing or whatever, comment on that. for example if the girl looks lost “you look lost. can I help you find something?” then use a nice transition to get into a more personable conversation. or you might comment on her shoes or whatever the hell you find unique about her. maybe even her look. “excuse me, are you from sweden?” and then create a conversation about that.

7. Open from the front, from the side, from the back, from behind, from below, from the top. Don’t give a FUCK about what’s proper. I’ve stopped girls coming straight at me. I’ve stopped girls walking next to them. I’ve ran after girls and stopped them. whenever ANYONE tells you do a thing a certain way I can guarantee you I’ve done the opposite and it worked too. anything can work really just have confidence in the approach.

8. As far as stopping their momentum, you can always go direct which almost always stop them. Or you can go indirect with an “excuse me? can i ask you something”. Or you can just walk alongside them so you don’t need to stop their momentum. if you’re comfortable they’re comfortable. girls are very flexible in that they always take the man’s lead.

[SomeguyUK]

I prefer standing sets and seated sets. Walking sets are so much harder.
–Lee

Lee, just out of curiosity, how often do you find girls who are standing or sitting somewhere are waiting for someone (i.e a male suitor)?

I see girls waiting in the street all the time but I’m always worried they are waiting for a guy. And just today I start talking to a girl and some big black dude she was waiting for walked over. Coulda been awkward!

[The_Hurricane]

I personally love it when I see that my girl is so hot that other guys want to approach her, even on the street, and I think that’s generally true of most men. They love that moment when they arrive to find another man there. They ignore you, kiss her on the lips, and walk away with her, leaving you there wishing you were them. I think you’re exaggerating the danger. At most, you’re going to get an annoyed “Can I help you?” from the boyfriend and that will be it. What fraction of women sitting alone on a park bench or taking the subway or having coffee in Starbucks or browsing books in a bookstore are actually waiting for men? I’m going to guess 10%. Of those, some large fraction are going to continue to be alone long enough for you to open and close them. As for the rest, you have to be comfortable with some friction. I’ve been doing this for nearly ten years and have gotten in trouble exactly once (in a bar when I accidentally hit on two married women).

–Lee

[SomeguyUK]

Thanks man, I was more talking about girls who are standing in street areas, e.g outside a tube station/shop/any other entrance. But I’m sure you’re right if you’ve never had a problem.

[ryano]

I just use it as an opener. Esp if she looks like she’s waiting for someone.
Me: quick question.. are you you waiting for your boyfriend?
Her: Yes
Me: Ok, just checking. Carry on! (then I walk away with a sly smile)

Or..

Me: quick question.. are you waiting for your boyfriend?
Her: No
Me: great! looks like we’re starting off on the right foot. 🙂 My name’s Ryan and you are?

[SomeguyUK]

Ha, that’s pretty cool actually, I’ll give that a go at some point.

[The_Hurricane]

I don’t like openers in which a girl has to make an immediate judgement about me (and most of the guys I coach). When you ask whether she is waiting for her boyfriend, you are asking her to decide whether she wants to be perceived as unattached. All girls will eventually make decisions about us, but I want those decisions to be made about three minutes into the interaction, not before that. That’s roughly the point at which girls begin to understand with whom they are dealing. Before that, they have my looks, my body language, and my style. That’s not nothing, but it’s far short of the thermonuclear device that I plan to detonate in the combat zone if they give me three minutes or more.

–Lee

[ryano]

I find that the bigger issue, atleast for me, is figuring out she has a bf or not. so direct works great because she blows me off right away if she’s in a relationship. atleast 50-60% of women I approach daygame have boyfriends. that’s the majority. it’s different from a nightclub or online dating in that way bc women are just going about their daily lives.

so I find it’s best to just know right away. that way I don’t have to waste my time talking to them, even for a few minutes. esp if you live in a big city there’s no reason not to do this as pretty girls are everywhere, and there’s millions of them. if you live in a big city and you’re not hitting on atleast 10 girls a day you’re doing something dreadfully wrong. also bc of the vast amounts of them I don’t mind if I get blowouts by a handful of them. I hardly pay attention to them as it is. indirect is fine, but i find that if you only do indirect you just can’t get as many approaches as as a guy that does a hybrid of both indirect or direct, or only direct. also, when he girl rejects me off of a direct approach i always feel good inside.

also you have infinite approaches. i remember about 2 years ago I approached this girl on the street who told me she had a boyfriend. fast forward to a few months after that. I approached her again in a cafe (I didn’t recognize her at that moment) and she was like “wait, didn’t you do this before?” .. I was like “yeah, I think you told me you were in a relationship” (my goto line if a girl accuses me of a re-approach) she was like “right..” so I said “are you still in one, can I get your number?” and she told me she wasn’t and she gave me her num. ended up having sex with her first date..

[uadialej]

When you say “This is a very friendly city. Do you agree?” be prepared to tell your story regardless of their answer. Just give them enough time to respond, and if it’s a yes or a no, keep going with your story. If they’re receptive to talking, it’s the story that will get a longer reaction, usually some laughter.

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