Making the effort in dating

[silversun]

Hey guys, I’ll try to keep this short…

I’ve been dating this girl for about the past month, total of 5-6 dates. I really enjoyed talking to her at first because she never really played any games. She always went against what you would expect a girl to do when playing hard to get. She was always very direct and honest with her messages. She never waited a certain amount of time to text or anything like that, and she was always the first one to text me.

I believe she may have been doing this because she was unsure if I was interested in her or not. I assume she knows I’m interested now because I ask her out on these dates. Now that we have been on so many dates, I don’t hear from her as often. I always find myself now being the one to make contact first. I’ve tried pulling back a few days (communicate implicitly as this website suggests) and seeing if I get any response, but doesn’t seem to work. I’m not sure if this means a lack of interest now. The strange part is, when I do contact her, she always seems to enjoy it. If I ask her out, she is agreeable and then when we are together, we kiss and get close and all that stuff.

I’m not sure how to interpret or approach this. Am I supposed to keep making the effort in the initial phases of dating? Should I pull back for more that a few days, say a few weeks, and see what happens? For what its worth, every time I am honest or call her out about something, it seems like that has the best effect. So, that makes me want to call her out for lack of communication, but I also don’t want to come of as whiny. She is a shy person and communicates more when I point things out, but I don’t want to sound entitled or anything like that.

Thanks

[SomeguyUK]

Hmmm..this girl was very direct with you and always replied quickly. You were obviously building up some momentum that you have now lost. Are you sleeping together at this point?

[silversun]

No actually… Do you think that could be the problem? Not aggressive enough?

[The_Hurricane]

When you tried pulling back, how long were you out of touch?

–Lee

[silversun]

Lee, 4 days

[The_Hurricane]

Not nearly long enough.

Here is what you should try. Contact her once every four days or so and plan the date for a week and a half later. In other words, see her once every two weeks. Make the dates amazing, but relatively short.

At the end of the date, push for physical intimacy, and if she doesn’t give it to you, end the date. Don’t hang out. Don’t let her spend the night. Just end things and get her away from you.

Make her start to question why you’re not giving her more, not the other way around.

–Lee

[silversun]

Thanks Lee, I’ll try that. But, how exactly do I push for intimacy without coming off as creepy?

[SomeguyUK]

Being creepy means to give someone undesired, inappropriate sexual attention.

You’re dating this girl, so it’s definitely appropriate to get more intimate with her. You’re making out with her regularly, so she is physically attracted to you. In other words, it’s impossible for you to be creepy here.

Dinner at your place is always a good place to start.

[The_Hurricane]

It is not creepy for a man to escalate physical contact. Most women expect it. When I say push for intimacy, I don’t mean physically dominate her. I mean escalate until she stops you. Start with what she is already willing to do. If it’s making out, start with that. As you’re making out, let your hands wander. As you get more and more intimate, she will either respond or resist. When she stops you, end the date. Tell her you’re tired and need to get some sleep. Tell her whatever. Just make sure the date ends right there, on her refusal to go further.

–Lee

[silversun]

Thanks Lee, I will try that…

Quick question for Lee or anyone else… I’m not too experienced with dating (I’ve just really gotten good at some of this stuff). Is this how dating should always start out? Do I always need to pull back by texting infrequently and setting up dates far apart? I feel like I got excited in the beginning and got too gushy. Should I be the one waiting for her to express her feelings before I express mine? If I have to wait that’s fine, but I also feel like maybe sometimes the guy should take the risk if he wants things to move forward. Basically, is it a bad thing to express your feelings first or a necessary risk?

[SomeguyUK]

You always want to be wary of showing that you are more invested in the relationship than her when you are in the early stages of dating. I cannot count the amount of crushing defeats I’ve had where I met a really nice girl, got excited, put my cards on the table too early and blew the whole thing. It’s probably the reason I’m on this forum today, still learning.

However, it does depend on how much the girl likes you. The more she likes you, the more you can get away with – as long as she is more invested than you are. But when she doesn’t like you that much, or she is slipping away, you have to be really careful. Our natural instinct in those moments is to give her more attention, be nicer, try harder. But that is a sure way to fuck things up for good.

If you want to make her your girlfriend, there comes a time where you need to put your cards on the table and tell her. In my experience, that conversation just comes naturally, because you get to the stage where you already feel like a couple. You see each other a lot, you have sex, you’ve met each other’s friends, you make plans together, you walk down the street holding hands, you’re emotionally entangled. If you’re at that stage, it’s pretty safe to tell her what you want.

Here’s the thing though: you rarely need to explicitly tell a girl how you feel when dating. She will sense it through the way you act with her, the frequency of your communications and how often you see her. You can gauge her in the same way though (as you have been doing).

[The_Hurricane]

I agree with everything SomeguyUK said except this: the girl should initiate the exclusivity conversation. Just as the initial approach and the physical escalation are a guy’s job, emotional security is a girl’s job. A guy should feel more comfortable when a relationship begins with him approaching a girl rather than the other way around. Similarly, a guy should feel more comfortable when a girl asks him about exclusivity and not the other way around. There are many reasons for this asymetry and Trivers is one of the pioneers of explaining it (in Natural Selection and Social Theory, as well as other places).

–Lee

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