Is it just warming up?

[ryano]

ah c’mon, you keep citing these “academic studies” like they’re empirical evidence to this issue. I’ve experienced this first-hand and I hang out with many guys that do the same thing in my city, we all trade stories. We’ve done so for years.

One thing I know for certain is that women are different and they have different tolerances. For every girl I’ve met that told me “I’m not that kind of girl. I’d never do that”. I’ve met a girl that her eyes would turn into saucers and she’d beam, “bring it on!!”. I’ve also noticed that some women are complete perverts in the bedroom while some women just lay there like a bump on the log.

Therefore, you can’t say there’s only “one” way to do something due to the multitude of personalities out there.

I’ll concede that there’s girls out there that would like a man to challenge them, and that’s why there’s no doubt in my mind that what you do CAN work.

But I also know that there’s simply the no-bullshit perverted girls out there that just want to get boned. And when they meet a guy that does all this game playing: calls them sporadically, pushes and pulls, challenges them, etc. It turns them off. I know this because I’ve talked to plenty of girls about this and they get really frustrated by guys like that.

so in essence, we attract who we are.

[SomeguyUK]

I just watched the first approach in that video. That dude has balls but my god, he is trying so hard to be ‘the whacky guy’, it made me cringe.

I think it’s so lame strongarming the girls into giving you their real number by getting them to call you or whatever. You could tell the girl did not want to give him her number. That whole thing was so creepy.

He has approach skills for sure but If this guy is supposed to be setting an example for guys to follow…jesus. It’s no surprise the whole PUA community gets a bad rap.

[dyonisos]

i agree with Lee here and this is what my experience is. this is not true that girls like sex as much as men. yes, they like sex with man they attribute value to. it can be just looks, or confidence but more often a status or fame.

i have a friend who is a well know local biker. he got looks and high status and girl literally throws at him, he don’t have to approach, they approach him.

anyway, he has a value in her eyes.

my point is most girls need emotional reason to get laid. for women sex is an option. sure, they may turn in sexual monster later on in bed, but not until you become valuable to them.

that is the difference between men and women. we – as the men- dont need a emotional reason to get laid, just hot body and cute face is enough to fuck. on the other hand, for girl there must be some kind of value that triggers her sexual side; and usually looks is not enough unless there isn’t something behind it.

sure, there are some so called sluts that fuck around but that is minority.

if some body tells that women crave for sex as much as men, hey, just look at prostitution market. what is female prostitute to male prostitute ratio? how about porn industry?

95% sex market is design for men. this is because men libido push us to load our semen no matter what.

that being said, i dont agree with Lee that chalanging is what most desriable men do. First off all, you keep operating this phrase. Who is most desirable men? Celebrities? Actors? Rockstars? I am pretty sure most of them dont care if a girl read books or not. As long as she is hot and want to fuck. Why should he care? Why should he bother to chalange her in the first place if he can have sex with her at beckoning of his finger.

[SomeguyUK]

Playing games can work really well. I have a story.

I had this really hot girl on facebook because she contacted me about joining a band I was in. Nothing ever came of it, but I kept seeing her posts and wishing I knew her.

A couple of years later, I was in a venue and she walked in. I say, ‘hey, you’re Jen aren’t you?’ We talked for 5 minutes, but I had to go.

The next morning I got a facebook message from her – I got all excited cos I really liked this girl. I was with a girl friend at the time, who said ‘don’t mess around, just ask her out’. So I did.

But Jen just kept making chitchat and ignored my question. So my girlfriend says ‘just end the conversation, she will read back through her texts and realised she just fucked something up’. So I say ‘Well, I’m going for breakfast with my friend now, talk to you later’.

Two minutes later I get a message back from Jen: “I’m out in Camden right now, come and meet me if you like.”

That is a good example of ‘playing games’ working well. The thing is, I really was going for breakfast with a girlfriend that day – but I could have just as easily been bullshitting while sitting at home on my own.

To make it even better, it was a girl that advised me to end the conversation. So even though they will say they don’t like playing games, they totally understand how powerful it can be.

(Incidentally, I also have another story that completely supports Ryano’s point of view)

[ryano]

SomeguyUk, agreed. sasha is horrible. he’s too much of a clown for girls to take him seriously.

Dyonisis, I used to think the way you do. Until I found out the true nature of women. you don’t sound like you speak from experience rather what society and the media has fed you your whole life. Women are just as horny as men are, they’re not visual creatures like men though. So for example they won’t get as turned on by say just just watching porn. but women get turned on by certain energies like a man’s confidence and his charisma, as well as how dominant he is things like that. But when they do get turned on. watch out… they can get very dirty. I wish I could sit with you and tell you some of the things I’ve experienced with women.

[SomeguyUK]

The funny thing is, Ryano, you posted that video in support of your argument but I think Sasha is actually trying (badly) to run some ‘high value game’. Notice how he trashes models and says they aren’t usually good company or whatever ‘but you seem nice’. Implying that he knows models and wouldn’t normally date one (shyeah right). He says some other stuff like that too, but it’s not convincing because he just keeps kissing her ass.

So funny seeing a video in that spot in Oxford Circus. That is where all the wannabe London PUA’s hang out, you can spot them from a mile off.

[ryano]

oh no, I posted that vid to show MrA who my first coach was. I by no means agree with his approach though.

[The_Hurricane]

@dyonisos

Why would the most desirable men challenge beautiful women? Because they have plenty of beauty in their lives. Beauty alone is not enough for them. I am in a relationship now but when I was single, I followed exactly the same pattern. When I had a number of hotties on the line, it took more than just another hottie to get me interested. Each additional hottie had to be smarter, more accomplished, more interesting to hang with. When I had no one, my standards were lower. Women know this about men. That’s why a man’s standards are such a good indicator of how many beautiful women he already has. It’s probably the best single indicator of pre-selection and if I were a beautiful woman, I’d be crazy to ignore it.

–Lee

[zhelyazko]

You guys, I will work hard and achieve success with women. And financial success too. And I will pay you back for all your help. This is really invaluable to me.

BUT, why are you arguing over these two methods as if they are separate. To me they seem completely compatible.

1) Everyone agrees that you should escalate on women as much as possible, right? Regardless of whether you like her personality or not.

2) And why not challenge women as well. It certainly helps more than it hurts. Whenever I compliment women or just banter with them or have nice conversations with them it ends nowhere. But when I create that feeling of tension (very rarely able to, though) I get much better results.

[zhelyazko]

Further though, what is Challenging exactly?

1. Asking a girl tough questions? Like what? How do you get girls to prove they are interesting, etc. etc.
2. What else? How to show that you are not sold, while simultaneously escalating hard?

Kind Regards,
Zhelyazko

[SomeguyUK]

@zhelyasko

I have found the same thing – nice conversation tends to blow the set eventually, or at best the girl wants to be friends.

There is a good post somewhere on Eric’s site about making challenging statements. For example if the girl says she is a lawyer you say ‘that sounds like a really serious job. But you’re not one of those girls that doesn’t know how to have fun are you?’

The few times I have tried this, it worked great.

[ryano]

“that sounds like a really serious job. But you’re not one of those girls that doesn’t know how to have fun are you?”

if you’re saying it in a flat, matter of fact way like you’re challenging them on their intellect. you’re done.

if you say something like the above make sure you say it as a sexual innuendo. ie the end needs to have a knowing grin and you can emphasize it with some kind of touch like “fun=sex”. although i probably wouldn’t even say that sentence as it sounds manufactured.

the way i see it, women are the embodiment of sex.. when a girl walks away it’s because there’s no sexual communication going on.

So if you’re not communicating with them on that level prepare for them to leave. that’s why friend zone happens to a person that is simply talking to them. even if that person is talking to them in a friendly way and even if there’s jokes happening in between. women are simply not interested. especially in a bar/club scenario or on a first date. women have a pretty dirty mind. they simply get bored if there’s no sexual interest going on. which is essentially escalation in all its various forms.

but without the air of “you may get fucked by me” which is essentially what flirting is, you can forget about getting laid anytime soon, much less keeping her attention.

that’s why i’m saying that if you “challenge” a girl, make sure you challenge her sexually not intellectually. and if you do the latter, get ready to waste time. and if you do the former, you can get them laid in less than half an hour if you know what you’re doing. although i don’t even like the word “challenge”. to me, everything revolves around flirting and flirting just means “i want to have sex with you but i’m not saying it explicitly”. rather the actions you do, and the sexual innuendos you say hint at it. that’s really where it’s at.

[equilibrium48]

i think being a challenge means behaving in a way that shows you’re not totally sold on her and having her invest/prove herself to you. Having this ‘buyer mentality’ where you’re this buyer who is screening and qualifying the shit out of her. She has to earn your attention and approval because you’re a selective badass male who has his choice of females. Don’t be easy to please.
I’d say this attitude is attained through a ton of things. Changing your mindset, being bold, less outcome independent, etc.

Having nice conversations gets you nowhere because theyre safe and show no balls. Theyre friendly and dont show your true intentions. Unless you wanna be friends of course.

“That sounds like a really serious job. But you’re not one of those girls that doesn’t know how to have fun are you?”

Yeah if you say that seriously and in a boring way it won’t work. But i doubt anyone would really say it like that unless they’re a huge bore. I think the above example challenges more so emotionally rather than intellectually. Her response would most likely relate to her having fun, being happy, talking about her hobbies. It could work if said with proper delivery and a nice smirk at the end.

[The_Hurricane]

No one wants to be accused of being boring. That’s why Eric’s ploy works.

That having been said, I prefer challenging them on what’s important to you, not what would be important to just anyone. If you like books or music or art or film or whatever, make sure she knows it by asking her tough questions, questions that she may actually find a little uncomfortable and a little aggressive. It’s all good. She may not be your ideal type, but she still wants to meet a man who has high standards.

Me: “How old are you, like 27?”
Her: “26!”
Me: “26? Really. You know, when I was your age, the only novels I read were the ones assigned to me in school. Is that you?”
Her: “No, I read all the time. I love books.”
Me: “Oh, yeah. What’ve you read? Give me a few favorites.”
Her: “I like Pride and Prejudice.”
Me: “A classic. Ok, have you ever read The Brothers Karamazov?”
Her: “No.”
Me: “No?! It’s only considered one of the most important novels ever written. Now we’ve figured out why you need me and all we have to do is figure out why I nee you.”
Her: “Ha ha! What’s so good about it?”
Me: “There are three pages in that book that every woman should read to understand men. You think you understand men?”
Her: “I think so.”
Me: “Really? Every woman says that but let me ask you this question: why do men cheat?”

I’m not complimenting her. I’m not bantering with her. I’m not kissing her ass. I’m asking her tough questions the answers to which are actually interesting to me. If I do it right, she’ll try to impress me with her answers.

–Lee

[zhelyazko]

Would you do this even if aiming for a one night stand?

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