If there's one thing I know about women…

[ryano]

If there’s one thing I know about women
…Is that you never know about women.

I’ve posted this in the past. But this is by far my favorite video on youtube on pickup and i’ve seen thousands. I’ve laid so many girls after adopting the mindset in this video I can’t even tell you.

Please watch this and really hear what he’s trying to say. Sure he’s a good looking guy and I’m not as good looking as him. But this mindset alone made my results go up exponentially. It’s the whole basis for my “The Mindset” post. it’s really the only way I view pickup these days and there’s no going back to what I used to do (which was doing things for the girl, analyzing, playing mind games etc). Trust me this guy knows what he’s talking about.

[zhelyazko]

I do not agree with him on a scientific basis, as in it is possible to understand what drives people to make the decisions that they do, regardless of being female or male.

BUT, I can see why having that mindset is a powerful thing. Incorporating it will be helpful.

[ryano]

it’s not science you can never know why a woman flakes due to the multitude of reasons. there’s too many variables to even bother. guys new to the game almost always decide that this reason is about them. and even if it is (which is not always) then the man ends up modifying his behavior to accomodate what he “thinks” the woman wants to see. but because of the variable preferences that women have this is impossible. for example, some women want an agressive guy and some women want a hands off guy that plays hard to get. so him modifying himself he just ends up shooting himself in the foot anyway. also by modifying himself he does what women is considered weak and needy anyway.

so you’ll never know. so instead best to focus on your preferences. and you filter out the women that don’t meet your demands.

i dont expect guys new to this to understand. it took me 3 hard years to understand this. if you’re new just keep modfying your behavior to make women like you you’ll experience the flakes anyway and then you’ll come back to what i’m talking about anyway.

[zhelyazko]

@ryano Yes, but how do you discover the behaviours that are universally more likely to get you success e.g. escalating, negging, creating tension in the conversation?

@all-the-lovely-people-here Secondly, I wonder whether it is better to just concentrate on improving one before moving onto the next, or to try and work on all of them at the same time?

What do you guys think?

Kind Regards,
Zhelyazko

[SomeguyUK]

I sort of agree with you on this one Ryano. There are times where I’ve opened with something ‘tactical’ and it’s actually fucked things up, because the girls were totally open and friendly, but I had to have this weird conversation with them. I walked away wishing I had just said ‘hi’.

However, sometimes it’s really helped me too. But a lot of the successes I have had using game, I’ve had to ask myself, ‘did I succeed because of game, or in spite of it?’

The problem is, it’s hard to know.

@zhel
I’m no expert but I think it’s best to take things step-by-step.

[zhelyazko]

Thanks guys.

[ryano]

@zhelyasko as far as “behaviours that are universally more likely to get you success”, the only thing is:
1. Approaching
2. Escalating
because I realized early on that women are just completely passive and don’t do anything to help in the courtship process.

now as far as how 1. — you can do it any way you want. no rules at all. as long as your mouth moves, and you ask them for the number at the end of it. that’s all that matters. and if you can do social mistakes/awkward things, all the better.

I remember when I was starting out I had this massive argument with a guy because he just opened with “heyyy how are you?” to girls he saw during the day. I thought it was socially “wrong” and I thought what he was doing was unsmooth and weird. I just thought it was against the “rules”. and i kept doing indirect shit as a result like asking for the time or whatever… fast forward to a few years later and I can definitely tell you how wrong I was. you can totally say “how are you?” to anybody you want and get favorable results. =) The reason being is that girls actually LIKE guys that break social standards.

as far as escalating. again, there are no set rules here. just as long as you’re linearly escalating is all that matters. you just need to escalate to the point where one of two things happen:
1. you get what you want
2. she rejects you, and so you try again later.

You just need to baby step things. just keep doing things linearly until you get a rejection of some sort. for example:
1. you flirt with her by joking/teasing/etc. (if you don’t know how to do this goto youtube and type “how to flirt”)
2. you stand a bit closer in her personal space.
3. you look her deeply in the eyes.
4. you touch her arms while expressing yourself through conversation.
5. you lead her somewhere, like a different part of a venue.
6. you inspect her jewelry or clothes. like if she has a bracelet you inspect the bracelet while holding her hand. or if she has tight jeans on you might remark “wow, those are really tight” and try to pull on the fabric.
7. when you walk somewhere you lead her by holding her hand.
8. you put your hand on the small of her back when she’s walking through a door.
9. you talk about “dirty” and sexually charged topics in the conversation.
10. you ask her if she wants to come back to your place for a drink.
11. you make out with her.
12. you let your hands explore.
13. you put her hand on your dick (my favorite move)
14. and on and on and on….

and you don’t have to do the above in that order or anything, heck i’ve had girls, made out with them and placed my hand inside their crotch and fingered them. all within 5 minutes.

the important thing is just ESCALATE, and see if she goes along with it or not. if she doesn’t you either try again later, or you find a different girl that wants to be escalated on.

but everything else that guys obsess with: push/pull, negs, tension, etc, etc. is all bullshit. I’ve had girls I’ve laid without negs or tension or anything.

and forget about rules. for every “standard” you show me i’ll show you a case where i’ve completely bent the rules and got results anyway.

if anything, you need to get AWAY from rules and regulations. the older we get more rules and regulations get piled on. The more books you read you decide you need to do “X,Y,Z blablabla to get the girl.” go back to being a guy without any rules, make your OWN rules, that’s what leaders do anyway. and that’s where you’ll see the most results..

[zhelyazko]

Thanks for your detailed advice. I will implement.

But as a side note, I do not completely agree with the “no rules”. Your two steps approaching and escalating are still rules. If you do not approach and escalate, nothing happens. I think there are also other things you do that raises the statistical probability that a girl will go out with you such as being confident, negging, w.e.

I think there are a lot of similarities to martial arts. A guy can knock you out with the most technically incorrect punch. Does that invalidate all of martial arts “rules”. I do not think so.

But again, that is just an opinion. I cannot say the same about P.U. just drawing parallels.

[ryano]

I mean there’s a few basic primitive moves, but what I’ve seen most do in forums like this is get into “if this then that” algorithmic scenarios which all this does is communicate to the girl that she is above you.

And mating is an innate skill you’re born with. you don’t need to teach a horse how to fuck another horse. you don’t sit them with a pua rulebook. same with humans they haven’t evolved all that much. sure women want their equalities but when it comes to courtship how equal are women to men? why don’t they approach or escalate? we’re still animals dude..

also attraction is not something you can quantify really. i know for a fact that the woman i’d be attracted to would need to behave the way she was brought up to behave not theough some cheap ebook she bought online. similarly each one of our parents didnt need a pua book to attract and create us..

the guys around me that subscribe to the most “game” are usually the ones that do the worst with women. it’s the ones that dont even think about it that do the best.. the ones that are the truest to their primitive nature.

[MrAntiquity]

@Ryan–

Yeah, I agree with you on this. As you guys well know I still have trouble w/the approach but once I break through things usually don’t go well when I plan individual lines (although sometimes if I’m stuck in a transition somewhere I might calculate a bit to help me thru).

However, that said, things usually ALSO don’t go well when I’m not using aspects of game at all–i.e. just talking. The times that I’ve been successful–even before I learned about the game stuff, I was doing things like push/pull, challenging, teasing, etc…just not labeling each and every move.

The thing is–game is really just a way of helping you understand what you’re doing–like my music theory example the other day. I agree that it doesn’t work so well as an algorithm (unless you actually buy into your own algorithm) because you come across as being completely phony.

[SomeguyUK]

I agree with you Mr.A. It’s all just a framework for discovering your own game. I mean, Lee and Ryano have almost completely opposite viewpoints on this, but weirdly they are both right.

Routines can be great, but equally they can completely bomb. Going in with no plan and no bullshit can make you look ballsy, but equally it can make you look like you have nothing interesting to offer.

I do believe that a lot of what Ryano says about game is right. Sometimes I really feel like I’m putting the girl on a pedestal by using pre-scripted lines etc on her. And sometimes I feel like the girl senses that I am trying and she thinks less of me as a result. But equally I have seen some awesome shit happen as a result of using ‘game’ tactics. I am not even that good at this stuff and I have had girls contact/chase me – something Ryano says never happens.

Even going back to ‘the Game’, Neil Strauss talked about being part of two very different ‘schools’ of pickup, and he just tried to take the best of both. So maybe that’s the best thing to do. Experiment and find your own way.

Strauss also said that routines are training wheels, which I think agrees with your original point MrA.

[ryano]

@MrA escalation was a big one for me. and truthfully i view everything as an escalation. even the approach. you have two strangers that don’t know a thing about eachother. the moment you say something to her, boom-you’ve escalated. you asked for the number, you’ve escalated again. you texted her, you’ve escalated, the moment you touched her you escalated again, and on and on. eventually you have sex. and if you two keep going at it for a few months, now you’re bf/gf. it’s all escalation…
the problem that i’ve been reading from your posts is that you stop escalating. especially when you’re on a date. it seems that you just like to talk. i used to do that too but it got me nowhere. girls would just get bored and i’d not hear from them again. or they’d cast me in the “friend-zone”.
if i had a choice between tension/push-pull/teasing/challenging vs escalation. i’d take escalation. that, and just being a good person– workout, work on your finances, have a good personality/sense of humor, be sociable with people, etc. but that’s about it. i don’t need to “trick” people to like me. or the thing i hate the most: act like i’m better than them, or that they think i’m busy when i’m not. I could puke when people do that.
from your posts it seems you’ve been trying to implement the gamey stuff. how about you try to implement some of the things that i say too. just put your sexual foot forward on the date. don’t give the girl mixed signals. just go after what you want. you’ll find that women respond great to it.

@SomeGuyUK girls chase, but from my experience only after you get intimate with them.

[The_Hurricane]

Girls chase me all the time. It depends what value you project. If you project no value, you have to do all of the chasing. If you project the right amount of value, girls will chase you.

–Lee

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