October 21, 2019 at 5:00 pm #74212
So I had this situation lately that I wanted to run by you guys. Actually, the question is two-fold.
The general scenario is that occasionally as I drive out of work I see this girl walking in opposite direction from the bus. We locked eyes a couple of time. The steet is a quiet residential type.
How do I make a move? If I hit the breaks when I see her she’ll be terrified (and I may end up being rear ended). If I pull over ahead of time and wait there she’ll get creeped out. I can’t really ask for direction as she saw me there a few times, plus leaning over the passenger seat is not the most comfortable position. I thought of walking out of work for an off chance of bumping into her but the ROI seems very low and looks desperate. Ideas from positioning masters? I find natural positioning a major part of the challenge. Like, chasing girl rapidly shopping between the store isles and making it look like I am after the exact same products:)
The second part of the question has to do with mechanics of pickup. Lee mentioned that he can make a move mid sentence while talking to someone else. For me making the connection between realizing that I like a girl, the general circumstance and what to say takes way too long, as I mentioned in my previous post. What are the mechanics of that rapid fire so I know what to concentrate on? I am guessing experience, but what else?October 21, 2019 at 5:04 pm #74213
Do you guys have any videos from the missions that you were on? I would kill to see Eric or Lee in real action.October 21, 2019 at 6:34 pm #74214Eric DiscoKeymaster
> I find natural positioning a major part of the challenge.
When you get good at this stuff, this ends up being really the only challenge. In many ways, logistics is where the game is played. What you say, how you say, how you respond, etc. is all fairly easy compared to positioning in a natural way that is comfortable for her.
The situation you described is a big conundrum. I don’t have any experience with driving and seeing someone walking, so I can’t give you any advice on that particular experience. But I will say this: you’d be surprised what works. Try some stuff out and see what happens. And if you do find something that works, now you will forever have a strategy any time that situation comes up. Well worth the risk. I do that all the time in unfamiliar situations. It’s the only way to learn.
My advice would be that next time you see her, if she doesn’t see you, drive past a little ways, park your car and get out and walk in her direction. Hopefully you can do all of that without her seeing. Then just ‘happen’ to walk by her and open her.
What’s your excuse for walking rather than driving? Meh. Doesn’t really matter too much. You can say that you wanted take a walk because the weather is nice, etc. You’d be surprised what excuses work. If you’re comfortable with it, typically she is comfortable with it.
> Like, chasing girl rapidly shopping between the store isles and making it look like I am after the exact same products:)
This is a tough one. If the girl is constantly on the move, it’s tricky to position. You could simply try a compliment as she walks by.
> What are the mechanics of that rapid fire so I know what to concentrate on?
I don’t understand what you’re referring to here.
October 21, 2019 at 11:20 pm #74218
- This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by Eric Disco.
Thanks Eric. I know New York is much more pedestrian friendly than most NA cities. I think I may have to go bold. I think I will pull over when I see her in the distance and pop the hood when she walks by…ask her something. Than I’ll just say that the car was fine and I just wanted to talk to her. She is either going to see humor in this theater or I will crush and burn. I’ll report back.
What I was referring to at the end was that you guys seem to be able to come up with a witty, site specific reaction to seeing someone attractive very quickly – mid sentence as Lee said once. On several occasions I also heard that thinking was an enemy. For me it takes a couple of seconds too long to realize that I like her, where we are, what she’s wearing and other circumstances that might matter to come up with a sensible angle.
So what is the process in your head? It is that you pick a set based on experience or you just have enough experience to open your mouth and have faith that what comes out makes some sort of sense.
I am an introvert so I tend to move around in my own bubble. When I am out of the bubble I can be very effective but get depleted of energy quickly. There is no way I would have enough energy for 5 or 6 approaches a day. I get sort of ‘done’ with girls after a couple unless someone really intrigues me.
Enough about me. Thanks again for quick response. Your and Lee’s approach really resonates with me. I hope to join you for some training in future.November 13, 2019 at 8:50 pm #74228
So there is finally a development to my drive by girl. I ended up pulling over and pretend to work in the car while waiting for her to appear in the distance. I had the lights on in the car, so she could see me as it is dusk now around the time she walks home. Headlights on and engine running.
As soon she approached the front of the car I dropped the pretend phonecall got out at said ‘Hi’ with an upbeat voice. She looked at me and smiled sincerely but didn’t stop. I continued getting out turned with her and said “hey I just wanted to say hello as I keep seeing you here” During all this the car is unfortunately still between us. She put her head down and screened me with long thick hair. I read it as avoidance so I let her be. I didn’t want to chase after her as she did not even slow down. I got back in the car and continued my pretend work so she could see me sticking around in case she looked back.
So that is that. Not great, not terrible – at least I took a shot and know what happened. I think, looking back the key was to get her to stop but it would have to be fairly aggressive. She definitely likes me, but she is either extra shy, not used to approaches, taken by surprise or maybe just too young and she knows it. So many unknowns.
The whole think took like 5 sec so not much to go on. Looking for some input, assessment, guideline or anything from the veterans.
Moving forward, I think I will wave at her as I drive by to keep it positive and show genuine interest but I doubt she is going to anything about it.November 19, 2019 at 8:13 am #74229
It helps to keep it in perspective. You did an approach. For many people, the only way to learn is to do a lot of approaches. From that perspective, that’s all it was ….an approach ….
It often happens that we overthink an approach, particularly if it’s a girl we like. And this works against us.
For girls that are in your neighborhood, like this one, you’re quite likely to keep running into each other.
One way would be to smile, say hello, or wave when you see her. That’s all. A few such sightings and the familiarity builds up.
Then stop her and have a proper conversation.
I’ve stopped girls in my neighborhood, where often we both checked each other out but walked by each other too fast to stop. Eventually the chance comes, and I just say “hey or excuse me or Stop a moment” with a smile. They always stop to chat. Or sometimes I run into them in a neighborhood café. And I start talking to them.
As an aside, a common pickup line that girls have used on me in bars is “I’ve seen you around” or “you’re a familiar face” even though I never recall seeing them anywhere.November 23, 2019 at 12:15 am #74230
thanks Cartoox for the pick up (no pun intended:)
Sometime I wonder if we are not trying to swim upstream. Here we are coming up with elaborate schemes and technics and there seem to be just the guys who have girls. I doubt all the guys who you see with attractive girls make 4 approaches a day and have multi tier conversation schematic in their pocket.
I recently met two guys (both really nice btw)
One is a big muscular well built fella (300 lb 6’2″) Very average face, no fashion, practically no english – we went to couple bars, girls were tripping over themselves and I was sitting next to him scratching my head.
Second guy is 12 years older them me, former rugby player. We traveled together. He IS the guy who talks to everyone. great salesman. but he is fully committed with children which he doesn’t hide. Each time he finished the conversation I could see in the females eyes that she was disappointed that he was leaving.
I must admin that my personal lack of success combined with the two studs whois power I do not understand set me back a bit. The only difference that I see between me and them is really the figure. They are fairly well build and I am very skinny but utilize it with fashion.
Got little philosophical there but it starts to bother me. That and the fact that in my 150000 city so far I SAW 3 girls I liked in 7 months and never got to talk to any of them.November 23, 2019 at 11:04 am #74234
[This is a going to be a long and somewhat abstract one, so please bear with me. ]
From my experience [ and I stress this is my experience only] , its something very different. Our modern society is built on the logical, the defined, the things we can measure, pattern into an algorithm. Our entire educational system and our social education at home is mostly about meeting metrics and having defined patterns of doing things.
The reality of human nature, the universe and sex and relationships is that these fall into the category of mystery, they exist outside and beyond the capability of logical tools to measure & master.
Because this reality is so abstract, people either dismiss it with an eye-roll or it falls into the category of religion, philosophy and mysticism. It also becomes hard to describe, as everyone will have a different experience of it. So its not something anyone can teach you. Its living in the world by doing, not just by thinking and this goes against everything we are taught, and forces us out of our comfort zones.
I would recommend Taleb’s book, Skin in the game , page 218 . He exactly describes the situation.
Both your friends were athletes. So they know what its like to physically face a challenging situation, feel all the fear at the start of a match, and yet play and give it their best. They have learnt to be in their bodies and be comfortable with that. They are not over intellectualizing. Instead they have developed courage.
In Eric’s earlier posts on this blog he described the crucial quality a man must have to be a man : the ability to take initiative.
I would add that a complete man has as his base both the ability to take initiative and the ability to take responsibility.
Initiative demands courage and boldness/imagination
Taking responsibility demands courage and a basic moral code.
Real women, that is women that are not overly masculinized or logical, have a sixth sense for men. Actually we men have it too, but we have never learnt to trust our intuition, so we default to our logical minds instead. We shortchange ourselves.
Women can sense when a man has the innate qualities they seek. They were probably able to sense these in your friends.
Eric’s book is actually a method to develop some initial courage by desensitizing our selves from the fear of approaching and making our sexual intent known to a girl.
The entire journey to become an authentic man who can simply be , this is a journey of many years, a rabbit hole of challenging ourselves, our beliefs and constantly learning and reading and meeting other people who are on this journey of self-improvement. At the end what emerges – there is a blog post by Eric on this somewhere here as well – is the best version of who you really are. Although the journey never ends….
In the English speaking world, plus much of northern western Europe, there is a current social zeitgeist which is anti-male and trends towards gender enmity so how you’re going to navigate around that is your challenge. Often your authenticity is going to be shut down by judgmental criticism, shaming tactics, etc……this metoo nonsense isn’t helping either……November 25, 2019 at 6:08 pm #74235
Interesting thoughts. I somewhat agree, however I am not convinced it is due to those guy character traits. They are just being themselves, with all respect one is a friendly, goofy giant and the other is a born salesman who can chat up everyone to the point where he achieves his goal and takes no prisoners. I think the attraction from female perspective is instinctual, lizard brain kicks in – safety, protection etc. The two individuals put 0 effort.
My point being, is approach theory a self improvement or a cover up (I know this may not be the forum where claims like this a welcome)?
I was watching my salesman friend, I engaged with the same women and my conclusion was that if I had to do it every minute of every day like he does I’d be exhausted and probably depressed after a while.
It is like that book that I read about introverts utilizing certain technics to be accepted in extrovert oriented professions and work environments. All in all, the technics were ways to pretend to be someone you are not and trick your various senses to achieve an extrovert task. My conclusion was that bottom line there is us and them and there are no two ways about it.
Unfortunately, same principles that may cripple introverts in getting jobs cripple them in getting women. There isn’t anything constructive I am getting to here and I realize I may be going through a bit of the rough patch. The weather is turning and the fall blues is settling in. I also got hot out of the gate after reading Eric’s books and got burned out.
It would be extremely cool to at least be able to get acquainted to anyone you wish otherwise the missed opportunities are piling up. Not being able to knock them of there feet with the rapid fire coming out of my mouth or giant body I am going to have to explore some more.
November 26, 2019 at 3:45 am #74237
- This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by Uboot.
Your journey has just started ☺
This topic could be discussed endlessly and turned into entire books on philosophy and mind body connection, natural vs technical, etc. so we wont go into it here.
I would recommend the following books :
Courage by Osho
Sex matters by Osho
The art of learning by Josh Waitzkin
No more Mr. Nice guy – by Robert glover.
Evo – psych concepts like reptilian brain etc are logical attempts to explain what is difficult to understand because it is fuzzy and ambiguous. Similar to religion, any answer, even if wrong, is preferred to no answer at all…..not having an answer makes intellectual types uncomfortable.
These ideas are fairly popular on dating and pickup blogs…….sadly, its kind of like the blind leading the blind. They are not 100% wrong. But they are a small part of a much bigger, fuzzy picture.
Logic is concerned with the functional.
Romance and sex are concerned with the aesthetic. The two are on completely different planes. Not to mention that the other side is also a human, a woman with her own ideas and emotions, who is affected by you and in turn affects you……
Eric I believe is a programmer
Lee has a background in mathematics and programming
I studied to be an engineer.
Introversion is just a manifestation of fear.
Good luck !
PS – there is plenty of material on this blog and also in the earlier parts of this forum, particularly the years 2013-2015. I would recommend reading thru those.November 26, 2019 at 6:15 pm #74238
I don’t mean to drag this topic here endlessly, but it really fascinates me at this stage and I want to add my 2 cents. You have a very deep and well founded world view on these things, somewhat different observations than mine but that is what makes it interesting.
Eric I believe is a programmer
Lee has a background in mathematics and programming
Cartoox studied to be an engineer.
Uboot an architect.
Logic is concerned with the functional.
Romance and sex are concerned with the aesthetic. AGREED!
My work, having done this for nearly 20 years, has definitely affected my private live. It requires being constantly assertive, diligent, following procedures and quite frankly more often than I’d like reprimanding people. Testosterone levels are high in all players. All this does not set up for a relaxed, warm and fuzzy evening pickup sessions. Not an excuse, but a reality. It is probably a bit easier if you are a jazz player. I realize that my dominating and somewhat hostile demeanor perspires.
Introversion is just a manifestation of fear. I MUST DISAGREE.
I never feared anything (other than telling my son that I was getting divorced with his mom). Introversion = personality – something that we are born with and cannot be changed. It is a package that you are given tied to the chemical composition of your brain and hormones.
Extroverts get energized by being exposed to social situation, intros need to recharge after being exposed to same situations. Intors can cover up and learn to deal, but the underlying personality traits are not going to change. This translates into attraction too. I am never going to be attracted to an ostentatious party girl with verbal diarrhea even if she was the most attractive and even last women on earth.
Thanks much for the book recommendations and all your input. Great to have this bounced off of someone who gave it some thought.
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