direct/indirect opener question

[SomeguyUK]

Hi Lee/Eric,

I wanted to get your opinion on when to use and indirect opener, and when to go for direct openers.

I don’t like going direct that much because a) I’m not that hot (although a certain niche love my look), and b) I don’t have balls of steel. Plus, I’m 31, I feel like I’m gonna get too old for that style soon, as I like younger girls.

However, once in a while going direct does get me a great reaction. Plus, it warms me up. I’m feeling pretty ballsy after doing a direct approach. And when I can’t think of an indirect opener, it’s an easy option.

On the other hand, I think going direct is just the easy way out sometimes.”I can’t think of anything to say, I’ll just go direct, she’ll probably blow me out, then I can leave.”

Today I saw this girl looking through photos at an art stall. I went and stood next to her but I just couldn’t think of anything situational to say. I don’t have any interest in the kinda art she was looking at. I didn’t have anything to say about what she was wearing. She was in an awkward position where it would have been weird to ask for directions.

I literally waited about 25 minutes to see if she want onto another stall. She didn’t, so in the end I just went up and said she was cute – only because I didn’t want to leave without saying something. I would have been kicking myself.

She said thanks, but her response was so awkward I did not feel like continuing much. I just asked one more question and then bailed. There were other people in earshot, so I was self conscious too (although I’ve got slightly better with that).

Would love to hear how Eric or Lee would have handled it.

[ryano]

Ignore this if you’re only looking for Eric or Lee’s response.

But you said it yourself, if it’s easy to come up with a direct (which it is) hell just go direct. If you’re feeling inspired or creative AND you can think of something witty to say, go indirect.

The way I do it is it depends on my state. If I feel like fucking with people I go indirect. If I feel genuine I go direct. It all depends on how I FEEL at the moment. And this is crucial because depending on how you feel it’ll make your delivery better. And delivery is the key really, not really what you say.

Plus, you’re putting too much emphasis on the opener. Most likely the girl will have a boyfriend or some other bullshit excuse anyway. Just open up AS MANY as you can and leave the opener undecided until atleast “hi” comes out of your mouth because saying ANYTHING is better than just walking away.

[ryano]

And btw, you said you waited “25 minutes” that’s insane. Since when is a stranger you don’t know ANYTHING about worth 25 minutes?

Here’s an example, a guy sees a girl he wants to talk to. He kills himself to try and find something to say. He battles internally between direct or indirect. He pictures her being mad at him. He pictures her being nice to him. He gets anxiety. His heart begins to pound. He gets on an emotional roller coaster. For 30 minutes he goes back and forth in his mind.

he FINALLY approaches her after all that internal battle and she simply shrugs and says “sorry, I have a boyfriend” and walks away like you didn’t even exist.

so let me ask you, was this bullshit he did to himself even worth it?
(NO is the answer btw.. open any way you damn well please)

[Eric Disco]

My solution: have something to say for every venue, at least until you get comfortable. There should almost never be a situation where you have NOTHING to say to a woman.

Typically in art venues you have a lot of leeway to go indirect because there is some great subject matter right in front of you. It’s almost weird to not talk about the art. And the fact that you aren’t into it doesn’t matter. In fact it’s almost better if you’re not into it. It’s good to disagree with women.

No matter what venue you’re in, the first two steps are the same. Step one is to get to the place. You got that down. Step Two is to position yourself next to her. Walk up and stand next to her facing in the same direction as her. This positioning exercise helps prevent you from getting into that black hole I call standing-and-staring-from-a-distance syndrome. If you can automatically position yourself to women whenever you’re attracted, it reduces 75% of the work.

Next, say something. Like I said, you don’t need to be into the art. I’m truly into about 20% of the art I see at museums and galleries. Doesn’t matter. A few options:

So… what do you think? (looking at the art piece)
Who’s the artist?
Are you the artist?
I dunno… I just don’t get it.

This is the same mundane opener that you would use in any venue. In a store you might ask about an item, etc.

Ryan is right in that waiting 25 minutes to talk to her is a KILLER. She’ll see it all over your face. You’ll be awkward and stilted. The longer you wait, the worse the interaction will go.

That being said… at least you did it. Give yourself credit for that. It’s better late than never.

Eric

[SomeguyUK]

Thanks for your responses guys.Just to explain further, I was at a market, there was one stall selling some kinda art.

When I say I waited 25 minutes, I meant I wondered around looking for other girls, but I kept coming back to see if my ‘target’ had moved.

The girl was looking through a pile of ‘arty’ photos, but I couldn’t see them as the box was directly in front of her, and I would have had to look right over her shoulder to see them. So I couldn’t ask her about the photos.

There was a pile of old books in front of me. I don’t know what they were because they didn’t seem to have front covers. So I couldn’t try “have you read this?” The guy running the stall was directly in front of me so if I had asked a question about the books to someone else, it would have made no sense.

I cannot think of an indirect opener that would have made sense to use in that situation.

Anyway – what I really wanted to know is, is it better to just go direct in situation like this where you are struggling to find something indirect to say? Or is it worth just taking a bit more time to think of something?

Sorry for the uber long post.

[ryano]

These are a series of openers I woulda used.. note I could’ve made ANY of them work. that’s what I mean by be good at just saying whatever the hELL you feel like saying. the real skillz is how you recover from a lousy opener and make it work anyway. One thing you should practice is saying something stupid. Like some kind of opener you think would never work and trying to recover from it.

Personally, I would’ve waited until she walked out of the stall and then I would’ve got at her as she was walking through the market. A few things I would’ve said. note I could make ANY of the below work. you need to work on your opening skills and transitioning and bullshit skills if you haven’t.

“hi can you help me? [pause for her to respond] I was wondering what the best way to talk to you is”

“I saw you at the art stall, did you find anything good over there?”

“hey you’re a girl.. let me ask you.. what’s a good present a could find for a girl your age?” (then you need to improvise about a girl that you know, like your friends’ girlfriend or something)

“hey, normally I don’t do this, but I was waiting for you for like 30 minutes and it took you foreever to come out!”

“hey do you know how often this market takes place?” [transition: “kinda cool isn’t it.. what are you shopping for?”]

“hey, I saw you back there.. I loved your style. your shoes are BLABLBLA” [or something else SPECIFIC you noticed about her]

“hey, do I know you from somewhere? yeah.. you got to my gym don’t you?” [requires major transition skillz, but i’m good at this dunno how well yours is]

——————————————-

If you MUST open in the art booth then a few things you could’ve said:

“you look like you’re very into this stuff” [commenting about her state]

“hey are those keds? I really like those kinds. my sister has a pair.. are they comfortable?” [or whatever the fuck else shoe she’s wearing]

“how’s your day going?” [shows you have balls]

“cool art eh? what kind of art are you into?” [assuming familiarity]

“is this for a friend or for yourself?”

“hi what’s up? I’m XXX. I like your shoes”

“excuse me, do I know you? you look familiar” [and then make shit up here like you saw her at a work function like 2 months ago..]

———–

One thing about indirect that you need to be good at is making them laugh.

You: excuse me, do I know you? you look familiar
Her: no, I don’t think so
You: wait.. you look really familiar i swear. do you work in finance?
Her: no I don’t..
You: ok, how about healthcare industry?
Her: nope
You: okay, I only have about 15 more industries to try out here..
Her: hahhahah

another one I like to do:
You: hi, is your name jessica?
Her: no
You: how about samantha?
Her: NO
you: ok, terry? or maybe colleen? stick around I only have about 1,000 more names I could go through..
Her: haha
You: ok what is it?
Her: emily
You: great emily, how’s your day going?

[ryano]

btw, you should be able to use either DIRECT or INDIRECT anywhere you are.

***If you cannot do this than your skills are not where they should be.

I’ve opened girls direct in a starbucks line, the other day I got a girls number just like that. We were in line and I tapped her on the shoulder gently she turned around (this was at 9:30am mind you) and I said.. “hi, you’re beautiful..”

similarly, in starbucks lines of opened girls indirect “excuse me? what do you think I should get a coffee or tea” or “do you know what has the most caffeine in it?” or whatever…

you can literally say anything, and if you can’t say anything and you DON’T feel comfortable saying anything then your people skills are just not there yet so you must practice practice practice..

[SomeguyUK]

Thanks for the help, I don’t want to overload myself with openers but I can see how some of those would work, will try and remember a couple.

[Author]

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