[MrAntiquity]

@TayB–

you date quite a bit, don’t you? And one of these “neediness” episodes ended up being your girlfriend 🙂 Are you sure you’re as needy or desperate as you think you are?

I mean you’re right–you cannot logically convince yourself to not be needy, or lonely, or desperate, or hungry, or anything. Trying to do that will mess up your entire head. If you are, you are. The only solution is to ACTUALLY become a different way (evolve, as it were), and that takes time.

I’ll say this though–if you’re feeling needy after getting some of these girlfriends/dates, etc., then the neediness probably has nothing to do with women, and it might be worth trying to figure out where it’s coming from. Maybe with a bit of help.

[MrAntiquity]

Hola @SG–

I’ll be here–I’ll be away after Jul. 25 but here before then. Give a holler–will be cool to meet up!

[MrAntiquity]

Sometimes old coming of age books can be helpful. Even books written for young people (young adults, etc). Sometimes I’ll pick up a book that I read when I was, say 12 or 13 and look at it again to kind of see how they developed through a stage that I might not have picked up on at the time. I’ll have to think about books, but there’s lots of examples in film.

For some reason, reading books about human psychology (especially relationship psychology) messes me up, so I actually avoid them–although I know a lot of other people like them.

[MrAntiquity]

I think there’s a myth that attractive girls are more difficult to date that comes from this imagined social hierarchy that we get from beer ads, school, celebrity culture etc. When I walk around I see countless doofy looking guys with hot girls, and vice versa. And the PUA world really reinforces that myth, which I think is a bad thing. Basically if you go for who you want you’ll do well.

@SG–my guess is that the reason you’re doing well is that you’re actually going for girls who interest you (in part because they’re cute, or whatever reason), and they can sense that you’re not fake.

[MrAntiquity]

@SG–

I’ll be around here most of the summer, so definitely up for it. I”ll be doing some traveling, but let me know if you’re in town….

(the Catalan women are particularly guapa these days in the summer heat 🙂

[MrAntiquity]

50% flakes means half aren’t flakes 🙂 Take the half-full glass–nice job!

In the end what matters is getting these people out somewhere–the flakes are water under the bridge and wont ever matter again….

[MrAntiquity]

@Eric–

Nothing specific–I just enjoyed reading them. Some are a bit more inspirational, some make you look at things a bit differently. They also gave us some different perspectives to talk about.

[MrAntiquity]

actually, adding on to that– I’ve been meaning to ask if you guys were thinking about getting the blog section going again? That blog was really useful and fun to read.

[MrAntiquity]

one thing that’s important re: therapy is to try to make sure that the therapist understands what you’re trying to do and even if they don’t completely understand it, that they’re at least on board with what you’re doing. (Many don’t seem to get this–for some completely inexplicable reason the ability to simply start dating isn’t on the mental-health radar. It should be). That’s why a therapist and a support group (like the posters on here) is a good two-pronged approach. Be honest with the therapist and say what kind of external support groups you’re using, what it’s like to practice approaching, etc.

Also, the most important thing I’ve managed to do since starting this whole thing is shift the issue from one about “Why can’t I get guurrrllllls!!!” to one of self-development “OK, I’m not talking to anyone. What’s stopping me, and how can I unblock myself?”

No, it’s not easy–I’ve been working on this for a very, very long time. There’s people out there who think they have “approach anxiety”, talk to 50 girls, then they start hitting on everyone. That’s not me–and it’s not most of us. It’s a lotta work. But the process itself is rewarding–and the outcomes will be even more so. Keep posting here–the folks here will help you.

[MrAntiquity]

I wouldn’t want absolute compliance either–but that’s a bit different. I mean I don’t want to date–or fool around with–a doormat! It’s boring. Tension (good tension) is a large part of what makes these things (relationships/sex/whatever) work, and keeps them exciting.

And there’s a difference between a girl not wanting to do something, and not having it occur to her. The idea of kissing within a few seconds isn’t undesirable at all–It doesn’t occur to most people very often. It’s not a matter of some “comfort zone”–it’s just not the general norm. But if she likes you, and the environment is facilitative, maybe she will. It’s a bit like the “I don’t have sex on the first date” business. It’s just a line she probably tells her friends–or maybe someone she’s on a date with if she wants to brush them off. But if she’s into it, then why not?

As for your specific example, I dunno–it’s not my style to be honest. It sounds like “I want to go as far as I can in 5 minutes just to see what happens, and it doens’t really matter who the girl is”. A lot of PUA marketers act like it works all the time–usually to sell products–but in truth it’s probably a tiny fraction–even in bars/clubs. As to what you actually SAY in that c ase? I don’t know—don’t apologize. Maybe jokingly say that you couldn’t help yourself and change to a completely unrelated topic.

[MrAntiquity]

One of the biggest problems with the “community” is this stuff about overcoming resistance. Yeah, sometimes women will give a playful rejection, or an indicator of “not right now” even though she may be up for it later, and it’s important to recognize that. As you and SG suggest, it’s fine to try again later.

But trying to force your way, or manipulate your way, through resistance gets into bad territory you don’t to be in. Look at it this way–if she doesn’t want to do something with you, and you force the issue enough so that in the end she DOES end up doing whatever, what do you think happened? In most cases, it’s probably not because you won her over–it’s probably because she was intimidated in some way. That’s why so many women read this “PUA” stuff and think we’re a bunch of evil misogynists. Most of us aren’t, but the idea of “how do I make a girl do what she doesn’t want to do” certainly goes against another aspect of “good” gaming, which is respect.

I agree with SG–the situation you want to be in isn’t overcoming “Last Minute Resistance”, as they call it–it’s not having it.

That said, there’s also a kind of resistance that’s flirtatious in nature–in which case you can use your own “push-pull’ tactics to help move things forward. There, too–don’t force the issue–taking away will probably ultimately move you forward, assuming she’s into it but just playing around.

But I really can’t stand the idea of “punishing” a girl for not sleeping with you–how’s that a basis for any kind of relationship–even a one-night-stand?

I think ultimately your goal is to facilitate an environment where she actually gives you the (subtle) indications that she’s up for it.

[MrAntiquity]

for some reason the response showed up after my post.

Depending on what she’s like, that could be a good response, although she IS asking you for real info about you, so it might be worth adding a bit of real info to the quip, too. There’s a cheekiness/maturity balance you want to strike.

Re: rapport, you’re not really going to generate much rapport over email anyway–and honestly I don’t think you really need to here–she liked your approach–she directly told you that–and she emailed you out of the blue based on you giving her a card. That’s all the “in” you need–use a drink for rapport building.

If the drink doesnt’ end up happening, I don’t think it’ll have been for lack of rapport but just logistics. But make it happen 🙂

[MrAntiquity]

Nice work, SG–

Seems like she’s into you, and from the tone of what she’s saying she’s giving you a bit of a “let’s see where this goes” vibe. It’s the kind of email you get after a good opening salvo on a personal ad 🙂

You’re right you can lose the luster over email–so you want to be careful to keep things a bit short, a bit fun, a bit mysterious, a bit sexy, and try to nail that drink in London down pretty quickly. Maybe in the next email you can find out when she’s in town? Or maybe challenge her to send you a picture of something intriguing she found in Scotland. That’ll keep her going.

But anyway, email shouldn’t be any different than fb/what’s app. Just because you can write long emails doesn’t mean you have to in this case.

[MrAntiquity]

@sg–

You’re on a roll! Nice job. There’s a lot to your last comment I think–just walking up to a girl and acting like a human being is 99% of the game, I think. Most people don’t do this because they’re afraid to. That’s a problem both with the normal “bar scene” where everyone’s putting on these fake alpha-male airs and acting like dicks (which occasionally works because at least they interact), or they’re hanging against the wall afraid to do anything (which never works because they don’t interact).

Just walking up to someone and being a mature adult is better than what nearly anyone else on the dating circuit is doing.

[MrAntiquity]

There’s different kinds of eye contact. Lee’s job example is a good example of the advice usually doled out to people looking for a job–basically that looking directly at the person who’s talking to you (i.e. the interviewer) shows some degree of both confidence and respect — since this person may be your boss you don’t want to keep looking at the floor if you’re trying to get a job.

In dating, eye contact is useful — for those who have this particular sense (I don’t) — to catch initial glimpses to see if someone may be interested or if they are scoping you out. BUT although people talk about this skill all the time, it is really NOT very important and many of us never develop that skill. It’s helpful but not at all essential.

Eye contact is also important in escalation/seduction — if you say something without the gaze to match (a compliment, an indication that you might kiss a girl, whatever), it’s a real social/sexual disconnect. In those cases, looking away communicates that closeness/sexual tension frighten you. For example, holding hands while looking away is comfortable–holding hands while looking at someone is positive sexual tension. It says “I’m considering making a move, and we both know it.” While it’s possible that the first situation COULD lead to something sexual, it’s really asking the girl to take initiative because you’re afraid. The second situation is the interaction you want.

But as for eye contact during a conversation–that’s really nothing but normal social awareness. Looking away repeatedly (and maybe inadvertently) because you’re timid is not a good thing–but looking away sometimes because you happen to feel like it is absolutely fine and can itself show confidence.

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