[MrAntiquity]

All that this “extraordinary experience” means is something unique enough to make her want to see you again. Usually via a poignant personal connection with sexual undertones if you can do this. That in itself is extraordinary. I agree with Ryano that legitimate daytime approaches are rare (there’s this myth in the “community” that hot girls get approached every other second–I mean, maybe with catcalls or “hey, baby” but a legitimate “approach”? Nah.) So you’re not really competing against all that much…just the fact that you can do this is unique in itself, but you want to provide a little bit more than just “Hey” and some banter about politics or the weather.

[MrAntiquity]

Lee–would you say that the girls in the videos were at least flirting back or not really? And if so, you wouldn’t necessarily read that as a good sign?

[MrAntiquity]

@Ted:

I don’t think it really matters. What struck me as useful was that the guy flirts with the girls and is honest about the fact that he’s flirting with them. You’re not going to go out with everybody but if you can let yourself do what he’s doing you shouldn’t have any dating trouble.

[MrAntiquity]

it’s not about the stories or routines themselves–it’s how you’re

a.) delivering whatever you’re saying and
b.) engaging the girl in the process of delivery. You need to read her as well as concentrate on yourself. You can touch her sometimes–shoulder, whatever–but do this once she shows that she’s invested in what you’re saying.

are you talking AT her or “vibing” (god i hate that term but it works here) with her? You initiate at first, but it should become a 2-way street pretty soon or it’s not going anywhere.

That said, it’s all important–banter gives you stuff to say, escalation lets you move things forward. See if you can really study yourself and these interactions to find out at EXACTLY what point your interactions tend to break down. You don’t even need a video for this (honestly I don’t really support secretly videotaping other people, especially if you’re posting it on a website) but you really need to pay attention as you’re interacting.

[MrAntiquity]

seems like she started to open up after he said he was driving out to California–and the guy saw it as his opportunity to start flirting with her. It’s helpful to see where these “hook points” are–since the first 2:40 or so were just casual conversation with no sexual energy–but that changed later on.

[MrAntiquity]

Zhel: well, a good approach for me looks like this:

1. I have to actually WANT to talk to the girl–I don’t approach just to approach, but to actually engage the girl. THat makes a world of difference.

2. I find situational is the best. I’ve gotten some dates from asking directions, etc…but situational openers (these can actually be direct/indirect/whatever) show a lot of social awareness and make it easy to engage people. Sometimes, to get good at this it can be helpful to simply say an opening line under your breath–EVEN IF THE GIRL DOESN’T HEAR YOU–just to practice responding to your environment.

3. What you actually say really doesn’t matter. “Hi”, to be honest, is a really, really difficult opening line. It’s easy to say “Hi” just in passing, but to use it honestly–to indicate that you intend to talk to someone is hard. Because you feel like you need the right follow-up. If you can feel comfortable saying “hello” to people you don’t know, with an intention to actually talk to them–rather than a quick acknowledgement of their presence, that’s a huge step forward.

[MrAntiquity]

Zhel:

I know your question’s directed at Lee, but I just want to jump in to tell you not to fall into the over-game trap either.

Thinking this way: “Hm, I need to add pre-selection (or whatever) to my routine in order to get laid” is a really unhealthy way of looking at it. It means that everything about your identity is based on trying to get a girl. Talk about putting her on a super-high pedestal!

The idea is simply to present yourself as a desirable guy who’s not going to start panting like a lap dog at the first cute girl he sees. That’s where the skepticism comes in. As in “ok, sure you’re cute but so are 50 million girls out there. What makes you so special–are you actually worth my time and energy? Because my time and energy are valuable!

Value is largely internal. If you experience yourself as a desirable guy, you become one externally. That value is more powerful–and far more real–than money, job, etc. It’s also a reason that famous people have so much success–do you think it’s JUST because of the fame? Of course not–there are thousands upon thousands of rich and famous people that can’t get laid to save their lives, good looking or not! But the fame/wealth/status helps them get into a position where they are confident enough to wield that–and THAT’s why they get laid so often. The skepticism that Lee talks about just follows naturally–because there ARE a lot of girls out there who are potentialy available, so choice/selection becomes easier.

You (and all normal guys) can become this type of person too–but it’s much harder to see the pathway sometimes for us normal people 🙂

[MrAntiquity]

I think ultimately it comes down to demonstrating that you can understand and relate to a woman sexually. That in itself demonstrates status/value–not everyone has achieved that level of comfort with themselves. most haven’t. If you have, that says something: that in itself is sexy. While some people are drawn to external signs of status (wealth, lots of friends, etc.) these are actually quite superficial and not strong fundamentals for true attraction.

There are lots of flat out losers who do well with women. They demonstrate no status. What makes them successful is the sexual connectivity. Lee–you gave the example of cat-calling construction workers. That may be a kind of sexual energy–but it’s fully one-sided–the woman isn’t actually involved at all.

[MrAntiquity]

That’s some good advice, Ryan– I like your girl-at-the-park example. I’ve often had trouble doing things that might make other people feel annoyed/uncomfortable (such as telling someone to go away so that I can be alone with a girl). It’s something I need to work on.

[MrAntiquity]

well, to keep our exchanges going…

I don’t find that approaching people I’m not interested in helps in the least. There’s certain barriers that we put up when we might be attracted to someone that aren’t up otherwise.

I think you get far more out of talking to a few girls a day who you might actually like, then 50 girls a day in order to play a “game”. How much can you get out of a 2 minute banter of no consequence? Ultimately your goal is to date/have sex/get married/have some girlfriends — it’s not to be an approach machine. I think it’s a pretty good bet that these “approach machines” put in a monumental amount of effort to get very little (or often no) action 🙂 There’s some exceptions, but usually…

[MrAntiquity]

SG–thanks.

The thing with the girl is weird–I mean she could simply have come up with about 5,000 excuses to not meet up with me, rather than saying “head up that way and I’ll meet you in 10 minutes’…but yeah, it’s possible. Anyway not like I’ll see her again but it would have been cool to stay in touch at least.

Other than that, I’m not really a day or night person–if I see a girl anywhere who seems cute/interesting I’d like to give it a shot, really. But the cockblocking happens all the time–once it was with a co-worker who was definitely into me–just ended up being bad luck. Another time with a friend but was progressing into something else… somehow I’m letting situations getin the way and I need to figure out how not to do that…

ANd last point–yeah it’s definitely true that i have a problem escalating on dates. I think for years I didnt’ really realize I was supposed to, so I never internalized it…have to work on that but it’s hard. I’m 40, so it’ not like I’m 18 and have all the time in the world to experiment..

[MrAntiquity]

I don’t completely agree with this–yes, you don’t want to become some phony character on account of women–no. That’s the problem with a lot of “PUA” lunatics. That’s weak and a sign of insecurity. It also messes a lot of people up.

But there ARE things that you can do to improve yourself and how you approach social environments–with one or a group of people. I never used to ask grilling or challenging questions…now I do. I learned that it was safe, more interesting, and–how ’bout it–reponse from people was a lot better. So it was something that I became aware of with the help of these forums. But it wasn’t phony, either. It was releasing a new part of me that I hadn’t realized it was safe to release before. But the advice of ‘Don’t change ANYTHING about yourself” isn’t exactly right. “Be Yourself” is both the best and worst advice out there–best because it’s ultimately a fundamental truth–but worst because it’s not something that lends itself to “advice”. Ultimately there are things that anyone can do to improve situations–just sitting there doing the exact same thing that hasnt’ worked in the past isn’t going to help.

[MrAntiquity]

Hey, Ryano–

I haven’t logged in here for quite awhile, and I’ve read your exchanges with Lee (to be honest I think you guys tend to argue at cross-purposes a lot but probably ultimately agree on several things….)

But here’s my thinking. Theoretically I agree with you–basically the problem with a lot of (well, nearly all) guys is that sexuality has for whatever reason been socialized out of us. This may not have happened after puberty either–could be a really early thing–but for some reason we’re afraid to be the biological animals that we actually are (and as you suggest, this is true for women as well). In other words, because men and women are meant to procreate, most close liaisons between the sexes SHOULD lead to-or at least be able to–lead to sex. So both men and women should be far more fulfilled, and much more easily, then we’re allowing ourselves to be. Status, value, etc…these are all tactical things that can help, but they’re not fundamental. So in that sense I agree with you.

HOWEVER (and this is a big however)

Most guys here are stuck with the simple notion of interacting with women–several steps prior to the sexual level, even. Advising them (and I include myself here–although on rare occasions I’ve been able to fully let myself go and have had astounding success) but advising them to just let go and be sexual is like sending someone from Kentucky over to the Burmese hills and telling them to just start speaking Hmong. It doesn’t make sense. It doesn’t register. It can’t. So Eric/Lee’s approach is slow advancement, focusing more on practiced interactions and some tactical shifts rather than a psychological overhaul. It emphasizes flirting in a way that makes you a bit more challenging and thus exciting, moving towards sexual chemistry that way–rather than your approach which is “I feel sexual chemistry–let’s go with it”. Both can work–both can be effective–both can be fun. Ideally, you’ll have access to both approaches and can combine them. But as yet, most of us cannot do this.

Thing is, Ryan O–the way you’re talking sounds like you’re “there”, and have been there for a long time. Maybe you went through some tactical shifts that helped, but the fact that you’ve talked about lots of sex and threesomes and things in previous posts means that you’re not coming from the same angle that most of us are. That’s why a lot of people here are unable to relate to your advice. I CAN relate to it–I feel that way myself but have blocked myself off from accessing it. That’s a separate–but related problem.

Ultimately, in addition to the 6 Steps to Approach, what men need is a 6-Steps-To-Rediscovering-Sexuality (i.e. flirting, but not only flirting).

Anyway, just some thoughts.

[MrAntiquity]

Don’t get caught up in the lingo–the words don’t mean anything. Although you could consider ‘hanging out’ as ‘a date that doesn’t go anywhere’. Just like ‘friends with benefits’ or ‘fuck buddies’ don’t mean anything either–that’s just dating you don’t want to commit to.

Basically, it’s ALL dating–people invent all these terms to protect themselves and to have a packaged way of talking about the convoluted relationship game with their friends, family, or even themselves.

But ultimately, you need to convey the interest pretty soon–if it doesn’t ‘feel’ like a date to the girl, it won’t turn into one, then you’re stuck. The move doesn’t HAVE to be on date # 1 2 3 or whatever–the number doesn’t matter–but you can’t disguise your intent–she has to know very early what your intentions are.

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