[MrAntiquity]

nice job, SG!

Your success can be an homage to RyanO 🙂

[MrAntiquity]

Ryan–

If it’s an addiction thing and you need to take a break for sanity–by all means do what’s healthy for you.

But your input is really valuable–I agree with a lot of it. (not all 🙂

And the debates w/Lee keep us thinking. Basically everyone is right and no one is right–and that’s the way the dating thing works…ultimately you learn by doing things.

Hope you stick around though–even if you take a bit of a break.

–Antique Man

[MrAntiquity]

I think the Hurricane Lee/RyanO podcast debate is in order…

[MrAntiquity]

@SG:

Reason it seems hard is because you’re in a community that developed of, by and for people who are particularly confused–or stuck—with regards to dating. So rather than just take the normal adolescent–> adult progression like most guys do, with varying degrees of success, there’s these thousands of attempts by different guys–from Mystery on down to us–on what “works”.

Fact is pretty much anything can “work”–you just have to be somewhat socially aware–a bit open to new ideas, and take some risks that seem really foreign sometimes. The “rules” that developed out of the PUA community, The Game, etc are basically designed to counteract one major problem, and that’s this:

**Guys that don’t/can’t date are acting really weak in some ways, and that’s what drives women away from them.**

So the “rules” everyone’s come up in the “commmunity” are designed to completely pulverize that weakness. But you don’t have to listen to all of it. Idea of not chasing after her is that if you do, you’ll look kind of pathetic. So since she didn’t get back to you, leave it alone for now–try again in a week if you want–on your terms. Don’t worry about measuring “value”–you’ll drive yourself nuts with that. YOu just don’t want to look like a douche 🙂 Ever see Swingers? Remember that famous scene where Mikey calls that girl “Nicky” about 12 times in a row? Don’t be that guy. If you haven’t seen it, it’s worth watching.

just some ramblin’…..

[MrAntiquity]

no reason NOT to continue. Really–how much buy-in are you actually going to get over text? It’s just strings of characters 🙂

I’m with RyanO–you won’t find out anything unless you ask her out. Or rather, suggest a place–don’t “ask”…

don’t worry about the money business. People date broke people sometimes…

[MrAntiquity]

gotta let her respond, man 🙂 As the other guys said.

[MrAntiquity]

to be honest, guys–I know I’ve said that I don’t date much–which is true–but about 5 years ago I was more comfortable with myself for some reason. Usually when I asked for a number, I got it. But I didn’t ask for numbers if I didn’t feel like there was a good connection. It’s really not hard to get phone numbers. And I’m short, and just flat out average looking.

I think if you’re going to pass yourself off as an obvious player, then looks are more important because the bullshit is so painfully obvious. Most women won’t be into it whether you’re good looking or not.

But I see normal/unattractive guys with hot women ALL THE TIME. Probably because they’re just comfortable with themselves and not terrified of an attractive girl…

[MrAntiquity]

RyanO–

Reason I don’t date much is because of a lot of internal stuff that doesn’t have all that much to do with girls, fundamentally. It’s not nervousness that’s the problem–it’s a mental block. Rejection doesn’t throw me–looking like I’m doing something out of the ordinary does. I’ve approached probably 1000 girls and I never feel ok about doing it–I feel like I’m going against something. So in THAT sense it would be nice to not give a fuck, but if 1,000 approaches aren’t doing it, something else is going on–and 5,000 approaches isn’t going to be the answer.

I’ve been where I wanted to be before–about 5-6 years ago–not long after reading the Game. I felt empowered to do whatever I wanted–although I may have felt nervous about it. IT was a good feeling. Unfortunately I lost it though. But it’s never been about really not caring at all for me…

[MrAntiquity]

I approach it a bit differently, actually.

See–I actually WANT to give a fuck. If I just see girls as a numbers game–take it or leave it–it takes the tension out of it–for me, it also takes the excitement out of it. I want to care what the girl might think about me–just not to the point of self-sabotage.

Nervousness is a good thing–nervousness that prevents you from acting isn’t a good thing. So rather than trying to throw myself at a wall 10,000 times to be impervious to emotion, I like the idea of saying “Ok, I’m nervous..so what? I’ll try it anyway”.

It’s like calling a girl up to ask her out back in 9th grade. Sure, you were nervous, but you generally gave it a shot anyway. Talking to random girls should be the same. Butterflies are good–paralysis is bad.

[MrAntiquity]

Someguy: My favorite place was always around Angel Tube stop. Upper Street. Anywhere around there. People are more laid back there–just as attractive as anywhere else–and it doesn’t have that ‘Oh-I’m-in-such-a-rush’ feeling that Oxford street does.

You might also hop on the tube and get out of the center a bit sometimes too–there are fewer women, but there’s more space. e.g. Highgate. Finsbury park.

Or if you want the stylish set, try out Kensington/knightsbridge, etc…

But Upper Street is definitely my favorite 🙂

[MrAntiquity]

@SG–

Maybe they are wary or uncomfortable. But it’s not because you aren’t their type. My guess is you don’t feel fully sure of yourself in these environments and that self-doubt projects itself. That can make people less likely to trust you–even in the first second or two of interaction.

I can tell it myself–if I go up to someone am I’m feeling good about the potenital interaction, it generally goes well. If I feel a bit uneasy–then 90% chance it won’t go that great. Being nervous is fine. Being uneasy isn’t so great.

[MrAntiquity]

As a followup point to that:

Ultimately, girls are just girls the world over. That’s it. They’re biological beings just like we are. All that stuff about image? And “type”? And look? All that is surface. It seems fundamental, and powerful, because social roles are important to us–and by presenting an image or a look or a style we feel better able to socialize ourselves. true for guys and girls.

But that’s not as fundamental as the fact that you’re a guy and she’s a girl. That’s why it IS possible for a dorky guy to date a supermodel, or for an emo type to go out with a high powered business exec. It might not be what people claim they want on paper, but your job is to trump that.

[MrAntiquity]

@Someguy:

But that’s your own fear talking. Or what people in this world sometimes call a “limiting belief”. You’re expecting them to say no because you don’t think you’re their “type”, so you’re being extra cautious. This is bad. Who cares who they are or what they might claim they want? They don’t even know. This is about you–and your own personal development.

Also, shifting to teasing/flirting isn’t directly hitting on…yet. But it opens the door–if she’s into the teasing, she might be into the flirting. If you’re getting flat one word answers, then you can move on.

What we’re saying here isn’t “Wow–I saw you over there and thought you were sexy as all hell”. I don’t like that kind of approach since it asks for a judgment call in about a second based SOLELY on look and body language–and most girls won’t like you in the first second anyway. It paves the way for rejection unless yo’re really lucky and there’s instant chemistry. It doesn’t allow anything to build. But what both RyanO and I are suggesting–even in his more direct example–opens the door to a flirty interaction even if you guys are on completely opposite ends of the spectrum.

Bottom line: you’re more appealing to far more women than you think you are. But you need to take some risks to realize that. That should be the message to all guys out there.

[MrAntiquity]

To be honest–the indirect part of that (really all of it) goes on too long. Whole time you’re talking about the friend and the clothes. It should become clear within a second that you’re actually there to talk to her, not to find out about clothes or whatever else.

Couple areas where you could have taken a different tack:

“See, I knew you were an expert”. This is fine–but then talk about her. Or you and her. Don’t go back to the “friend” stuff– reading that line I could almost FEEL the nervousness in taking it personal Y there.

“See–I knew you were an expert. You’re probably the kind of girl who…” or whatever.

“See I k new you were an expert. You probably spend your night writing scathing critiques of university fashion shows’ or i don’t know. just a silly example. But you get the idea. “Opinion openers” aren’t actually about the opinion, and that should become clear almost immediately.

[MrAntiquity]

purple:

make it more open ended. “How do I get to Starbucks” is less engaging than “Can you recommend a good cafe around here?” or “Where’s a good place for a cheap lunch”? Those two can get her thinking, then you can use that to interact. Then maybe you can tease a bit on the response–or reject it, or something. “McDonalds? Come on, you’ve gotta be more creative than that…” or “Great. McDonalds So you’re personally responsible for everyone being so damn unhealthy in this country” or whatever… she’ll probably defend herself and try to comeup wiht something different, then you can play along for a bit

for example

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