Forum Replies Created
When you open with something like asking directions, it usually won’t work to transition into personal conversation right away. There usually needs to be some other conversation in between first. That conversation can be about one of two things: you or anything else other than her.
Talking about yourself or telling a story is the first option. Follow up your directions question with a some commentary about why you aske for the directions. For example, if you ask, “Do you know if there’s a good place around here to get sushi?” You may follow up with:
“I have some friends coming into town. We are celebrating x, y and z.”
The other alternative is to talk about a third topic that is neither you nor her. You could talk about sushi restaurants or japan or something else related.
One thing to keep in mind is momentum. If she’s sitting at a cafe and you sit down next to her and open, it will be a lot easier to keep this type of conversation going than if you stop her on the street and ask her for directions. On the street, there is a lot more moment for her to give you the answer and keep going, where as in the coffee shop, she is just sitting there. By talking with you, she’s not investing as much so it may be easier to keep the conversation going. This isn’t to say that you shouldn’t try to transition on the street, but expect your success rate to be a lot lower.
> And do you recommend getting sexual in order only to weed out women without any sexual hints about me? I mean, does it also help to build proper frame of our dates or is it sieve first of all?
Yes. It does a lot more than just weed women out. It builds attraction by showing that you are confident, sexual, and not afraid to talk about sex. It also shows that women are often attracted to you quickly.
> “Hi! It’s Alex, I was glad to meet you yesterday, it was pleasant for me to speak with you and I would be interested to talk with you more. So, will be in touch!”
You come across too much as a nice guy in this type of text. Try this instead. When you meet her and get her number, say you will text her right there so she has your number. Then say, ‘Hi This is Alex.’ That’s it. Now she knows who it is. This takes away from the low status text of having to say, “Hi It’s Alex” later on. Then the next day, send her a much more chill message like, “You never know who you’re going to meet at Starbucks” or where ever you met her. You could even do something more playful like, “You’ll never guess what happened to me at Starbucks yesterday.” When she asks what, say “I met a girl who xxxxx” and describe something about her.
> Phone call next day. And during this call I want to know about her something else and to tell about me (if it was very fast acquaintance, may be just numbers exchange) and than invite her out. If we talked during acquaintance 5–10 minutes, than I will invite her out faster during phone call.
This is okay. But I try to avoid calling a girl out of the blue. I’ll wait till she responds to a text message and say something like, “I’m gonna call you real quick for a minute, my thumbs are tired from texting all day.” I see how she responds. If she responds positive, then I call. If she says that she prefers to text, then I keep it over text. But I may send 2 or 3 more text messages and then set up a date.
> Yes, you are right, that it’s total improvisation on a date. We speak about jobs, our interests, eat together in a cafe, tell stories etc. Can you recommend any material to study for me?
I was talking about the approach. You should have some kind of structure. I have a structure listed in my book. Basically, it goes something like this:
Banter or quick story or something about yourself or interesting conversation topic; i.e. something besides personal questions about her
Transition into personal conversation
Find something about her you can appreciate
> The question was first of all, is my date/lay ratio acceptable, or I do something super wrong
If you’re getting *some* dates then you probably aren’t doing something super wrong. If your numbers are lower than expected then you probably need to switch some things around, tighten up your game, throw in some different elements. Most of them I covered above.
> And also how could I thank you for answer and help?
You could buy a copy of my book. Available on Amazon and Audible.
I deleted the link to your photo. I recommend you do not share your photo online when talking about game.
> And the next step, after we have some rapport, is sex.
I recommend that before you get into rapport with her, you have some sexual banter or mention of sex. It doesn’t have to be super sexual talk, and it’s fine if it is only one line somewhere, but very early on in the conversation, you need to show her that this is not *friendship.* What will happen is that you will lose some women. Some percentage of women will not continue the conversation. This is what you want. You want to weed out the women who are not attracted to you or already know there is no way they will ever be with you, like a married woman, etc. If not, you will be investing time with these women and they will continue to talk with you but there won’t be any attraction. They may even give you their phone number after talking with you for some time. But they will flake because they were never attracted to you in the first place.
> I never ask girls about their age and don’t tell them my age.
Agreed. This is correct.
> I don’t use social media. I don’t have page Facebook, Instagram.
This is fine. I never exchange social media with women I meet or even am seriously dating.
> I call girls by phone, I use text messages very rarely.
This is another area where you may be losing some women. Some women just won’t be comfortable talking on the phone. I would recommend that you learn some minimal text messaging. You can set up a date in 3-5 text messages.
> I think it’s variate. Sometimes we speak more about me, sometimes about her (depend of girl and topics at date), we have small talks and serious talks too.
It sounds like you don’t even follow a script or a structure. If she walks away not knowing anything about you, she will flake. If she walks away without you knowing anything about her, she will flake. There are certain bases that need to be covered for this to work.
> And my general questions is: what do you think about points above? Can they (my slim body, not very good compatibility with some girls and so one) leads to 5–7% date/lay ratio?
Could be. I haven’t seen your game. I haven’t seen the quality of women you approach. I can’t see your body language. I can’t see how comfortable you are around strangers. Like I said, there are a lot of variables, so 5-7% is possible. If those are the numbers you’re getting, I believe you. Not sure what the question is.
While it’s understandable to compare your statistics to other people’s statistics to see if you are doing well, there are also *sooo* many variables that it is almost impossible to compare. How good is their game? How good is your game? How physically attractive are you? How high is your status? How physically attractive are the women you’re approaching? How old are they? How old are you? Are you approaching them on the street vs bars vs coffee shops, etc.? What type of city do you live in? What is the culture of that city? Given all these variables, it’s really impossible to compare your ratios with someone else’s. But if you feel like you are having problems getting first dates, then let’s talk about what could be standing in the way of getting first dates.
For example, here are some better questions to answer:
How sexual do you get with these women? How quickly do you get sexual? How much do you connect with them? How much do you know about them when you leave? How much do they know about you? Do you leave them wanting more at the end? Do you qualify them?
> I’ve been acting a bit creepy.
It’s good to avoid being creepy but you will never completely avoid it. I say this because whenever you take initiative with women, you will end up creeping out a percentage of them no matter how good you get. So yeah, if you can find things you’re doing that are creepy and stop doing them, that’s great. But more important is to make sure you keep taking initiative and keep getting more confident rather than avoiding things that get you rejected. The only way to be 100% sure that you never get rejected or never do anything creepy is to not take initiative at all, but you definitely don’t want to be that guy.
That is a sensible approach. I can understand feeling disingenuous when doing this stuff. That is a common feeling at the beginning. And it is 100% fine to focus only on direct approaching. That said, I would still make sure that you “ramp up” with direct approaching. If you force yourself to show interest in a woman every time you speak with her (“I thought you were cute,” etc.), the fight-or-flight response will be triggered in your body more than if you allow yourself to ramp up by asking for directions, giving small compliments, etc.
I suggest you figure out a way to ramp up with direct approaches. If you’re going to a store, open your mouth and talk to someone for some reason. Doesn’t matter what. Ask for directions. Ask for the time. Give them a compliment. You may not feel the difference, but it will make a huge difference when you actually talk with someone. And it will make a huge difference how you will start to feel from day to day.
Let’s take an analogy of getting past a fear of heights. Perhaps you have a huge fear of heights. Your goal is to go bungee jumping. If on the first day you forced yourself to walk the top of the tower and bungee jump, your body would react a lot. If you went back every day and bungee jumped, your body might never calm down. But if on the first day, you only walked up one flight of stairs and the next day you walked up two, etc., this would give your body time to adjust. It’s called exposure therapy. It’s a proven psychological technique.
And I can attest that this has been true in my own life. When I first started approaching, I did ALL direct approaching. I didn’t do any ramping up. I just forced myself to go out every day and approach an new woman. It was one of the hardest things I ever did in my life. I did start to get more confident, but the arousal my body experienced NEVER dissipated. It was only when I started to change my method and ramp up that I started to experience less of the physical and psychological symptoms associated with anxiety. In fact, I think that doing all that hardcore approaching may have even set me back because now I associated approaching women with those feelings and my body started to react automatically when I would go out, knowing I was about to jump into the deep end.
I can understand that it feels disingenuous to ask directions, or give compliments to people if you aren’t feeling it. That feeling is a symptom of your anxiety. As you do more of it, that feeling starts to dissipate. You will always have to push yourself past that feeling in one way or another when you ramp up. After a while you get completely used to it.
> Do you have thoughts on when a good time to “turn it on” would be and when to “turn it off” would be?
I recommend that you set aside a specific time to go out and do this, like one hour per day, and only approach during this time, at least at the beginning. If not, you may end up putting too much pressure on yourself the rest of the day and you may end up feeling failure when you aren’t approaching every hot woman you see. You want to minimize the amount of failure you feel. Give yourself an achievable goal and try to stick to it. It is not reasonable to think that you will approach every woman you are attracted to from the start.
Agreed that there are actually a very limited number of scenarios you will find yourself in.
I recommend changing the topic when you transition into personal conversation. This is because you need to take the lead in the conversation and show her where it is going. If you don’t, she may not take the risk herself and reveal personal things about herself.
For example, if you are talking about a food item in the supermarket and you say, “I tried to cook this the other day. It turned out horrible!” She may start to ask you about it, but she may also be afraid to ask personal questions (ironically just as you commented your hesitation to get too personal to soon). She’s scared too. She doesn’t want to put herself out there. She doesn’t want to look like an idiot. So she may direct the conversation back to the opener. She may say, “Well if you try this other brand over here, it should be easier to cook.” Now you are back to square one. You’re back to the opener.
Instead, if you change the topic of conversation clearly and confidently, she knows you’re taking the risk. She’s not going to feel stupid about sharing something personal or asking a personal question.
That being said, there’s nothing wrong with extending the opening conversation and waiting to transition. Go ahead and talk about cooking for five minutes if you both are into it. If things transition naturally, that’s fine. Maybe after a few minutes, she’ll ask you a personal question or volunteer personal information about herself. That’s great. The better you are at opening and having small talk conversation, the more likely this is to happen.
However, that doesn’t always happen. Sometimes the situation simply doesn’t present itself, like if she’s not very talkative but still interested. Sometimes there are logistical limitation, like if you’re both walking. Sometimes a woman will be attracted to you but not have the guts to ask you a personal question. Sometimes you just have to make the move and push the conversation along if it doesn’t get there naturally. In those situations, I recommend decisively changing the topic of the conversation, for the reasons I mentioned above.
Transitioning is an absolutely essential skill to have. It’s also the toughest thing for most guys to do aside from opening in the first place. A lot of guys get really good at opening but then don’t master transitioning.
> I was also thinking that maybe fun facts would be good Transitions? For example, after the Opener, I could say, “You know what I just read/heard recently?” and then say whatever it is. What do you think?
That’s great. Having a story or a fun fact ready is great for building conversation. It’s so good to have something like that in your pocket. However, it’s not really a transition. You could inject some personal questions into it. You could say, “I read this study that women prefer blah blah blah. How do you feel about that?” It may get you a little bit more personal. But at some point, you will still need to find out some core facts about her, what makes her tick, what she’s passionate about, etc.
Yes, absolutely. She can’t see your lips move, so you have to speak louder to ensure she knows you’re talking to her.
Yes. It’s totally possible. I put together a post about it here: http://approachanxiety.com/seduction-in-a-time-of-covid/
I was just talking with Lee about the fact that I’m glad I’m not trying to learn game in this #metoo environment. Guys have enough negative thoughts in their brain without wondering if they are committing a crime by saying some words. It’s insane that in the UK they are making some kind of laws against talking with a stranger. Not sure if that’s exactly what’s happening but it seems like it from some reports.
To me, even aside from #metoo, it is challenging to consistently do super ballsy type direct approaches on a regular basis. There are some great benefits to that type of approach and some circumstances where it works great, but I think for the most part, indirect is the game to play.
I generally use the ‘deep thoughts’ opener, which isn’t completely indirect, but it is indirect enough that if the woman isn’t interested she doesn’t need to explicitly say she’s not interested. I may be on the subway, in a store, on the street, pretty much anywhere, and I open her with deep thoughts (“You look like you’re thinking deep, deep thoughts.”) From there, her response generally dictates whether I keep going. I am calibrated enough at this point in my game to read her subtle cues.
Some rejection type cues: she doesn’t say anything, she types on her phone, she gives a monosyllabic response like “no” or “yeah” or “uh uh” and looks away, she puts her headphones back in.
Some cues she’s interested or at least that I should keep going: she smiles, she responds with a complete sentence like “I think a lot of deep thoughts”, she stays in my presence when she could easily walk away, she could be looking down at her phone/book but doesn’t, she leaves her headphones off, etc.
To be honest, the chance of something negative happening is really slim either way. Most guys who are trying to get past approach anxiety aren’t the type to be so over-aggressive that a woman will call the police. I mean, you never know if a woman has an agenda against all men and wants to take it out on you. But the risk is really small. The bigger risk is a guy with a lot of social anxiety ending up feeling so terrible about himself that he stops approaching altogether. This is why I recommend starting indirect and if you want to challenge yourself, go direct for a while. Show some cajones. Other than that though, my preference tends to be indirect.
> I find natural positioning a major part of the challenge.
When you get good at this stuff, this ends up being really the only challenge. In many ways, logistics is where the game is played. What you say, how you say, how you respond, etc. is all fairly easy compared to positioning in a natural way that is comfortable for her.
The situation you described is a big conundrum. I don’t have any experience with driving and seeing someone walking, so I can’t give you any advice on that particular experience. But I will say this: you’d be surprised what works. Try some stuff out and see what happens. And if you do find something that works, now you will forever have a strategy any time that situation comes up. Well worth the risk. I do that all the time in unfamiliar situations. It’s the only way to learn.
My advice would be that next time you see her, if she doesn’t see you, drive past a little ways, park your car and get out and walk in her direction. Hopefully you can do all of that without her seeing. Then just ‘happen’ to walk by her and open her.
What’s your excuse for walking rather than driving? Meh. Doesn’t really matter too much. You can say that you wanted take a walk because the weather is nice, etc. You’d be surprised what excuses work. If you’re comfortable with it, typically she is comfortable with it.
> Like, chasing girl rapidly shopping between the store isles and making it look like I am after the exact same products:)
This is a tough one. If the girl is constantly on the move, it’s tricky to position. You could simply try a compliment as she walks by.
> What are the mechanics of that rapid fire so I know what to concentrate on?
I don’t understand what you’re referring to here.
- This reply was modified 1 year, 12 months ago by Eric Disco.
> Do you recommend people to go through the full Six Step program before joining a weekend bootcamp?
Yes. Absolutely. I used to teach boot camps and stopped teaching them because 90% of the guys there were just trying to get over their approach anxiety. And then when they left the boot camp they were back to square one. All their anxiety came back.
Boot camps are good for two things: 1) to show you what is possible. You get to see guys do what you never thought was possible. 2) To learn new skills and improve on your skills.
A boot camp will be a thousand times more productive if you can already do some approaching. That way they can tell you how to do things differently. If you have a ton of anxiety when you do the bootcamp, you won’t learn very much. Your brain pretty much shuts down when you have anxiety. But if you have already been out approaching, you’ll probably pick up some good things if they guys know what they’re doing.
> Do you have any recommendation for bootcamps to do (ideally in Europe)?
I don’t. I’m just not on the scene right now when it comes to boot camps.
> Any plans to start doing Skype consultations again?
I might start again in a few months. I do enjoy coaching. Just wanted to step back and take a break from it.
A few things you’ll need to take things to the bedroom quicker:
Fast and persistent sexual escalation, including touching, talking about sex, busting on her, etc.
Bouncing the girl from location to location. Start off with an instant date, then move her to another location. All of these transitions should move her closer to your place.
Screening for the right woman. You’ll want to make sure you invest in a woman who is willing to go for something like this. That means you’ll want to get sexual fast (the unwilling women will move on). You’ll want to check for logistics: if she has plans with her friends in an hour, it won’t work.
This is the kind of thing where you could invest a lot of time and energy only for it to go no where after a few hours. Not exactly my thing but it may be fun to try if you’re looking for a new experience.
Yes. Audio is accessible. See here for more details. Offer applies to Amazon and Audible reviews.
I’ll use Deep Thoughts or Zoo in Central Park listed here.
Alternatively, I list a number of openers in my book:
Ask if she’s been waiting long for the train or bus.
Ask if you just missed the train or bus.
Ask if the trains or buses are running on the weekend.
Ask if a train is local or express.
Ask easy directions: how to get to a nearby street.
Ask more complex directions: how to get to a theater, a park, etc.
Your follow-up can be any combination of these other questions, a statement about yourself (“I am out today looking for a book about
“). Or just use your typical transition using a cold read.