When she says no / resists

[-Humz-]

Hey everyone,

We all know that gradually escalating physical contact/sexual talk is a must in this game. But each girl has her limits and her own pace. So it’s only natural for her to be a little resistant to escalation if her limits are pushed too far too fast. This will ultimately lead to her saying no, or resisting a touch, a kiss, or beyond.

The question is simple, how do you guys deal with that specific moment.. the point when she says no, or fully resists an advance.

From my understanding it’s taking a step back, punish her/neg her, Build some more comfort, then try again.

So i’ll give you a scenario and I hope you guys can help me figure this out, because I truly feel it in the moment.. and it throws off my game.

Scenario:

You’re out on the first date with a girl you KNOW she’s very interested. But you haven’t really advanced kino (i.e. touching her) that much, and you have to start from scratch. So you start with a high five, then you grab her hand, talk about how the inside of her elbow is one of the most sensitive parts of her body (you touch too). Then you pull her close and you try to brush her hair (maybe a huge jump here but it’s intentional). Then you feel resistance or she says no.

end of scenario.

Okay, I understand WHY she would resist.. it’s because there isn’t enough comfort built. I don’t need help with that. But what I really want to know is HOW to deal with this situation. You’ve reached her limits. How do you ease those limits and cross them?

Thanks in advance!

humz

[SomeguyUK]

I think the best way to avoid resistance is to not get it in the first place. If you’re being non-needy, you’re having fun, flirting and moving things forward but not being overeager, you won’t have these problems.

If you get a bit of token resistance where you think the girl is being shy, just back off and then try again later, like you said. But if she’s not being shy then maybe you are genuinely moving things to a place that she doesn’t want to go to (yet).

However, some girls, particularly Asian women aren’t good with public displays of affection so you just have to try and get them alone.

[MrAntiquity]

One of the biggest problems with the “community” is this stuff about overcoming resistance. Yeah, sometimes women will give a playful rejection, or an indicator of “not right now” even though she may be up for it later, and it’s important to recognize that. As you and SG suggest, it’s fine to try again later.

But trying to force your way, or manipulate your way, through resistance gets into bad territory you don’t to be in. Look at it this way–if she doesn’t want to do something with you, and you force the issue enough so that in the end she DOES end up doing whatever, what do you think happened? In most cases, it’s probably not because you won her over–it’s probably because she was intimidated in some way. That’s why so many women read this “PUA” stuff and think we’re a bunch of evil misogynists. Most of us aren’t, but the idea of “how do I make a girl do what she doesn’t want to do” certainly goes against another aspect of “good” gaming, which is respect.

I agree with SG–the situation you want to be in isn’t overcoming “Last Minute Resistance”, as they call it–it’s not having it.

That said, there’s also a kind of resistance that’s flirtatious in nature–in which case you can use your own “push-pull’ tactics to help move things forward. There, too–don’t force the issue–taking away will probably ultimately move you forward, assuming she’s into it but just playing around.

But I really can’t stand the idea of “punishing” a girl for not sleeping with you–how’s that a basis for any kind of relationship–even a one-night-stand?

I think ultimately your goal is to facilitate an environment where she actually gives you the (subtle) indications that she’s up for it.

[-Humz-]

Thanks guys, great insight from you both. A couple of comments though.

I don’t believe in the “how do I make a girl do things she doesn’t want to do” aspect of gaming. That’s not what I’m after, plus I’m with you MA it’s not possible to have a positive outcome. But the whole idea behind my understanding of pickup is to get her to realize that we both want the same thing.

This is what i mean by the concept of limits. When you first meet a girl, kissing her in the first 10 seconds is probably way beyond her limits, and I guess it’s “something that she doesn’t want to do”. But if you were able to kiss her, later on, that meant that you’ve passed these limits – mainly by creating some comfort between the two of you. And kissing you, though once undesirable, now becomes highly desirable for her ;).

These limits can be pushed all the way up to sex. You can’t make me believe that girls don’t want to have sex, we both know it’s not true because they are human,and humans are sexual beings. I’m very intrigued by what you two are saying about “not being in that position in the first place”. I have never been in a situation where I had absolute compliance. There’s always resistance and it’s what makes game.. well fun! It’s how you’re able to overcome this resistance in a very sexy manner.

I mentioned a very specific scenario though, I am really interested in how you guys would respond if you found yourself in that position. Like, specific things you would say. I mean you’ve just realized that you’ve gone too far.. how do you escape that, in a way that doesn’t show that you’re needy, but asserts your dominance/sexiness over the situation.

Thanks!

Humz

[MrAntiquity]

I wouldn’t want absolute compliance either–but that’s a bit different. I mean I don’t want to date–or fool around with–a doormat! It’s boring. Tension (good tension) is a large part of what makes these things (relationships/sex/whatever) work, and keeps them exciting.

And there’s a difference between a girl not wanting to do something, and not having it occur to her. The idea of kissing within a few seconds isn’t undesirable at all–It doesn’t occur to most people very often. It’s not a matter of some “comfort zone”–it’s just not the general norm. But if she likes you, and the environment is facilitative, maybe she will. It’s a bit like the “I don’t have sex on the first date” business. It’s just a line she probably tells her friends–or maybe someone she’s on a date with if she wants to brush them off. But if she’s into it, then why not?

As for your specific example, I dunno–it’s not my style to be honest. It sounds like “I want to go as far as I can in 5 minutes just to see what happens, and it doens’t really matter who the girl is”. A lot of PUA marketers act like it works all the time–usually to sell products–but in truth it’s probably a tiny fraction–even in bars/clubs. As to what you actually SAY in that c ase? I don’t know—don’t apologize. Maybe jokingly say that you couldn’t help yourself and change to a completely unrelated topic.

[SomeguyUK]

Women want to bang just as much as you do (when they feel the right way about you). They just want you to lead.

I think you also have to be wary of taking a ‘one size fits all’ approach to women and escalation. Vin De Carlo talks about how women are either ‘Justifiers’ or ‘Deniers’ when it comes to sex…the long and short is that some of them have a lot of mental conflicts surrounding it, and being too eager can really put their defenses up.

In the situation you mentioned, I would just back off a bit, then try again later. Sometimes the girl wants to kiss you or whatever but doesn’t want to feel slutty, or just doesn’t want to move so fast. I went on a first date with a girl a couple of weeks ago that told me she didn’t usually kiss on the first date (after I kissed her)! With these slower girls you just have to continue leading, but back off a bit to show them you respect their boundaries.

If a girl was just ridiculously shy and I would have to push really hard to help her to get through it, I would just walk away. I have been in that situation before and even though the girl liked it, the sex sucked and I felt like half a rapist. Never again.

[Cartoox]

There’s a saying in Chinese “ Cross the river by feeling the stones underneath “ …and I’d say it applies to this situation….

Kino-ing girls should be something you enjoy….& then it feels natural.…..not something that “has to be done “ in order to get the girl to have sex or physical intimacy….

Often I call it out eg,, “ oh, you don’t like being kissed on the neck..?….I have been in a few situations like that and after a few pull backs and restarts things tend to go to their natural level…which is not always sexual …..the key is to not get frustrated or come across as needy…..I keep smiling, keep playing, sometimes tell her she turns me on….etc ….it all depends on the vibe really, there is no set formula I follow here…..

A funny story related to this ….
About early Dec last year I approached a girl on the subway platform ( opener – why so serious /deep thoughts ) and we eventually ended up going on a date….The first date was a bit slow because she was not too comfortable with fast escalation and said so but she also made it clear she liked me….Cool

Second date I could tell she wanted to escalate a bit because she seemed to be into me , and sure enough, she started seriously kissing me and so on…but when I tried to escalate for something more intimate , I kept getting resistance, as in she would push my hand away or say, not now, its too soon…..blah blah blah..
Eventually I stopped, ordered a refill for my drink to create a break , and asked her what made her so uncomfortable about sexually escalating, consider her tongue was all the way down my throat….….her answer was classic …..” Oh, I really enjoy being with you….The thing is , I’ve already got someone I’m fucking , but we only do it once a month or so, and he just comes, fucks me and leaves……I was thinking that maybe we could date, go to movies and dinners and concerts together, and I could feel what a real relationship is, instead of just …you know…..having sex….”…….I stared at her for a moment….then cracked up laughing …….

That was the end of that date, I dropped her home and told her I was not the boyfriend candidate she was looking for….

[The_Hurricane]

I never get resistance. Never ever. My first dates are 45 minutes long, and most of my second dates start at my place, so the lack of resistance is unrelated to the length of time we’ve spent together or the velocity with which we are moving towards the bedroom.

Even so, most girls complain I’m not moving fast enough! One relatively recent date wrote to ask why I wouldn’t make out with her in my car on our second date. When I finally invited my last gf to my place for movie night – after previously spending a couple of hours with her – she enthusiastically told her friend, “Finally, I’m getting laid!”

Here is why I think I never get resistance.

Resistance is not the problem. It’s a side effect of women’s uncertainty about your value. When they are certain of your value, the flimsiest of excuses are enough to get them to sleep with you.

So while I get no resistance, I do lose girls in other parts of the process, mostly when I first meet them and push them way, way beyond their comfort zones. After jumping through all of those hoops, the invitation to my place is getting a virtually certain acceptance.

Here is my advice to those of you who are getting a lot of resistance. Instead of working on overcoming resistance, work on creating value. Lose them up front. It’s cheap. Go on dates only with girls who have the correct perception of you.

So ok, you’ve done all of this, and you still get resistance. What should you do? Get up, adjust your pants, and say “Ok. Enough wrestling practice. It’s getting late and I’m exhausted. Going home to get some sleep.” Don’t tell them you’re going to see them again. Don’t tell them it was fun. Nothing. Smile, give them a hug, and walk out. Be prepared for more compliance on your next date.

Why does this work? The most valuable thing you have is YOU. When she’s not giving you what you want, you have every right to take the YOU out of the picture. Is it punishment? No. It’s just you expressing your unhappiness about what’s going on. That’s not manipulation. It’s a legitimate expression of your feelings. Don’t debate, don’t discuss, don’t beg. Just take the YOU out of the picture. You have every right to express your unhappiness. Don’t pretend it doesn’t matter when, deep down, you know it does.

—Lee

[Cartoox]

Again, thanks for the insight Lee !

[Author]

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