Transition from clothing store opener
October 11, 2014 at 11:08 pm #71794
Hi guys, need your help.
I’ve been practising in clothing stores a lot, because here in London they’re a great place to find girls, even when the weather sucks.
I can always open but I’m having real trouble transitioning to personal conversation. Approximately 1 or 2 out of 10 girls are chatty and I feel comfortable using the ‘get a feeling’ or ‘guess your accent’ transition, or just saying ‘how is your shopping going today’?
However I’m finding it difficult with the rest. Here’s roughly how a lot of my conversations go:
Me: You look like the expert in fashion. Would this look good on a tall skinny black/asian girl?
Her: What kind of style does she have?
Me: Pretty girly, wears a lot of dresses [I might change this depending on what I’m holding]
Her: Yeah I like it/No I don’t like it because…
(we go back and forward, most of the time they say they like it, sometimes they give advice)
Me: Ok, that’s helpful, thanks. See, I knew you were an expert (they laugh). I’m trying to find a present for a friend, she is a poor student and she’s always complaining she doesn’t have enough clothes.
Her: Oh, that’s really kind of you.
Me: Thanks. It’s really hard trying to buy clothes for someone else!
Her: I know! I think she will like that though.
This seems to be the tipping point where a transition should be executed, but I can rarely make it happen. I don’t really have any anecdotes about buying clothes that I could use.Any ideas?October 12, 2014 at 12:03 am #71799
To be honest–the indirect part of that (really all of it) goes on too long. Whole time you’re talking about the friend and the clothes. It should become clear within a second that you’re actually there to talk to her, not to find out about clothes or whatever else.
Couple areas where you could have taken a different tack:
“See, I knew you were an expert”. This is fine–but then talk about her. Or you and her. Don’t go back to the “friend” stuff– reading that line I could almost FEEL the nervousness in taking it personal Y there.
“See–I knew you were an expert. You’re probably the kind of girl who…” or whatever.
“See I k new you were an expert. You probably spend your night writing scathing critiques of university fashion shows’ or i don’t know. just a silly example. But you get the idea. “Opinion openers” aren’t actually about the opinion, and that should become clear almost immediately.October 12, 2014 at 12:12 am #71800
you live in london? 🙁 I’m jealous.
that’s the best place ever. I’ve been there a few times to game. Especially that store topshop on oxford st. it’s like a club without alcohol. so many hot girls there.
Onto your question. your entire frame is a bit off, too serious, that’s why you can’t transition.
teasing/flirting/playing is your answer. that’s what makes transitioning work. if you’re too stifled, too safe, it’ll make transitioning harder.
it’s *okay* to make a girl know off the bat that you’re flirting with her.
here’s an example:
let’s say I’m in topshop and I see a girl that I like. I’ll go up to her and take a very feminine outfit next to her like a pink blouse and hold it up against me.
me: excuse me, do you think this color matches my eyes?
her: haha, no i’m not so sure.
you then grab another one.
me: how about this one? i’m a cross dresser on the weekends.
her: blablabla lol
.. so now that we’ve established fun I can then go on to say
me: what are you shopping for today?
or do you live around here, or whatever.. just normal type of questions.
alternatively you can just go up to her, more direct like:
me: hey, how’s it going?
me: i really like your shoes/dress/blouse..
(or you can just say: ‘i just thought you looked nice i wanted to introduce myself’)
her: why, thank you.
and then you don’t need to transition…
or you can start off indirect and go direct..
me: excuse me, can you help me?
me: i’m trying to figure out a good thing to say to start talking to you. what should it be?
her: lol blabalblalba
however, if you’re into complete indirect. ie and you don’t even want to show your cards at all (which isn’t the best mind you, but sometimes i understand that you’re not in the mood to reveal yourself) then here’s a few transitions i’ve picked up over the years. (but again, try your best to just flirt right away. it’s sooo much easier)
me: hey, do you know if girls prefer gift cards or actual clothes?
me: cause i’m trying to find a present for a girl.
at this point you need to know the fine art of bullshitting. complicate, complicate, complicate. meaning, through “new problems” into the equation just to get her talking. like “hmm but i dunno giftcards are sooo impersonal”, or “do girls like it when guys buy them clothes?”, ie just get her talking… ONTO the transition. this can happen anytime during the conversation, so after like a minute of you bullshitting with her. the idea is to get to a more personal conversation. here’s a few:
1. just ask her a personal question but that’s relevant to the scenerio. “are you shopping for anything interesting?”
2. comment on her state. “you looked very into your shopping before i came up.. any special occasion?”
3. make fun of something they say. so when you’re asking them bullshit questions. try to find something to tease them on. for example:
her: well no guy has ever bought me any clothes.
me: why, does nobody like you?
4. use “by the way” as a transition to just about anything.
her: well i think she might like blabalbalbla
me: BY THE WAY, that’s a nice shirt you have on.. where’d you get it?
5. make a hard transition and justify it with a BECAUSE. for example.
me: do you live around here?
her: well i just moved..
6. use her accent… “btw, you sound russian”
7. use her style.. “wow, you seem EMO. is that your thing?”
8. use an assumptive transition. “you don’t seem like you’re from around here..” or “i get the feeling that you’re a lawyer for some reason”
again, this is the stuff I used to do and I was good at it. nowadays though I just flirt with them directly. it saves the whole transitioning thing. as I said most girls have boyfriends so I don’t feel like getting into a lengthy conversation with them.
p.s don’t use the word “expert” too much. i know eric said that alot in his product and that’s ok. but make sure you improvise. ie don’t say the same stuff again and again. it’ll hamper your progress. part of getting good at pickup is being OKAY with whatever comes out your mouth. even to the point if it makes the girl run away. it’s entertaining as hell when they do anyway:) .. but ironically, when you’re so unfiltered they NEVER run away because they’re so intrigued. (girls would walk away from me when I was a newb, when I wasn’t unfiltered)
p.p.s basically, don’t hide behind your intent for too long. it’s OK to make girls run off by being truthful with them. actually, it’s funner when they do get upset when you’re being upfront with them. the more polarizing you are the better. b/c some of them won’t run off. some of them will stay and even much more than that. things u can’t even imagine.October 12, 2014 at 9:02 am #71801
Topshop is indeed the shit, I’m spending a lot of my time there! In fact I think the staff are starting to recognise me as I’m there so much, ha.
I have tried ‘funny’ ones like you suggested before Ryano i.e holding up a dress and asking if it would suit me. The problem is that I am a long-haired guy and I think people take it seriously that I am a tranny! But maybe I need to try it again now I am more comfortable.
Some great suggestions there anyway, thanks guys. Will try some of these out.
I do feel like I am staying in the opener too long. But I don’t want to make it immediately obvious I am hitting them as I am most likely not in these girls’ usual ‘demographic’ of guys (I am an alternative looking guy). So I don’t want them to make an immediate decision about me.October 12, 2014 at 10:23 am #71802
But that’s your own fear talking. Or what people in this world sometimes call a “limiting belief”. You’re expecting them to say no because you don’t think you’re their “type”, so you’re being extra cautious. This is bad. Who cares who they are or what they might claim they want? They don’t even know. This is about you–and your own personal development.
Also, shifting to teasing/flirting isn’t directly hitting on…yet. But it opens the door–if she’s into the teasing, she might be into the flirting. If you’re getting flat one word answers, then you can move on.
What we’re saying here isn’t “Wow–I saw you over there and thought you were sexy as all hell”. I don’t like that kind of approach since it asks for a judgment call in about a second based SOLELY on look and body language–and most girls won’t like you in the first second anyway. It paves the way for rejection unless yo’re really lucky and there’s instant chemistry. It doesn’t allow anything to build. But what both RyanO and I are suggesting–even in his more direct example–opens the door to a flirty interaction even if you guys are on completely opposite ends of the spectrum.
Bottom line: you’re more appealing to far more women than you think you are. But you need to take some risks to realize that. That should be the message to all guys out there.October 12, 2014 at 10:33 am #71803
As a followup point to that:
Ultimately, girls are just girls the world over. That’s it. They’re biological beings just like we are. All that stuff about image? And “type”? And look? All that is surface. It seems fundamental, and powerful, because social roles are important to us–and by presenting an image or a look or a style we feel better able to socialize ourselves. true for guys and girls.
But that’s not as fundamental as the fact that you’re a guy and she’s a girl. That’s why it IS possible for a dorky guy to date a supermodel, or for an emo type to go out with a high powered business exec. It might not be what people claim they want on paper, but your job is to trump that.October 12, 2014 at 4:10 pm #71806
Yeah man, I think you’re right about the limiting belief – my own insecurities playing up there. I do get the feeling some of these girls are a bit wary/uncomfortable though – but maybe they have just never been asked for advice in a clothes store like that before!October 12, 2014 at 5:28 pm #71808
Maybe they are wary or uncomfortable. But it’s not because you aren’t their type. My guess is you don’t feel fully sure of yourself in these environments and that self-doubt projects itself. That can make people less likely to trust you–even in the first second or two of interaction.
I can tell it myself–if I go up to someone am I’m feeling good about the potenital interaction, it generally goes well. If I feel a bit uneasy–then 90% chance it won’t go that great. Being nervous is fine. Being uneasy isn’t so great.October 12, 2014 at 5:45 pm #71809
I agree that it’s a limiting belief. besides, I’ve creeped more girls out going indirect than I have direct. Girls generally know you’re trying to hit on them when you ask them a silly question or just talk to them about random bullshit. it saves everyone’s time if you just show them your intent.
Someguyuk, you live in a metropolis, the biggest city in europe. You literally have infinite tries. You can hit on 100 girls a day in london for the rest of your life and still not scratch the surface of that city. That’s why that city is amazing.
now you think someone might notice you but they don’t. You think the store clerks that get paid minimum wage care how you handle your social life? nobody is paying attention to you.
I remember I took a newb friend of mine to a Zara store once and I proceeded to hit on 5 girls in a row with him right next to me and I did so direct. and each time I hit on a girl I told him to look around to see if anyone has noticed. And of’course nobody even looked up. and I mean _NOBODY_. And we were in the girl section. people are just way too interested in themselves to care about you. it’s a sad fact.
If you want to get results you NEED to look for rejection. You might tell yourself that you need to transition/be smoother. but that’s false. you’ll get atleast 100 times more results if you’re just unsmooth and make your intention known from the start. alot of the times I’m purposely looking for rejection (ie hit on them within the first sentence) so the girl can piss off so I can find a girl that’s a better fit.October 12, 2014 at 6:20 pm #71810
And btw, that was just an example with “holding up a dress and asking if it would suit me”. you can do anything.
The fundamental idea behind that is far more important, which basically says: “I’m hitting on you right now”.
some guy posted about honest signalz awhile back:https://www.youtube.com/user/honestsignalz
this is a good example of what I mean. you’ll find that when he opens it’s almost always flirting from the start. he never asks for directions or help or stuff like that.
what you want is to generally make the man/woman dynamic present from the start so the girl has absolutely no doubt you’re hitting on her.
here’s a few other openers that would convey this. say i’m in a clothing store:
me> hey, make sure you pick something nice out for our date, mmkay?
me> wow, you’d look great in that.
me> hey, don’t I know you from somewhere? i’m pretty sure i saw you in the gym/supermarket/party. (if you do this with a smile she’ll know you’re bullshiting which is gold)
me> hey, I like your style.. you shop here alot?
me> how are you? (that’s right.. just ask that and see how they respond. learn how to handle tension)
me> hey, do you believe in love at first sight? I do.
me> I thought u looked nice/cute/amazing/beautiful/whatever. I had to come say hi.
me> your legs look stunning I had to say hello. (note: this will only work if she DOES have stunning legs. an average looking girl might freak out over a line like this)
me> hi, quick question. can I have your phone number please?
basically, what all these have in common is that i’m getting personal with her right away and showing that i’m hitting on her. and that’s good. that way she can reject me if she’s not interested and not waste my time. I really do not have time for girls that are not interested.October 12, 2014 at 7:28 pm #71812
Thanks man, I totally see the value in that mindset. I agree I need to push myself into those ‘polarizing’ moments more.
However, I am still in the stage of trying to get comfortable in all stages of interactions, which I think is why the indirect angle is good for me. It gives me a chance to just get used to talking to women, relaxing and listening fully to what they are saying, rather than trying to run ‘game’ and worry about results.
But I’ll definitely try some of those suggestions in the clothes store.
I know what you mean about being uneasy. I find the days where I am feeling good about myself and I’m smiling, the girls open up so much easier.
I’m getting better at reaching that relaxed state, but I do find there’s some days when I generally feel self-conscious/paranoid, especially in the clothes shops. It’s just a mental hurdle to get over, I guess.October 12, 2014 at 7:30 pm #71813
Although I will say that despite London being the bustling metropolis it is, it’s not always as easy to find cute girls as you would expect! If only for the fact that there are so many people around. Zara is definitely a good one too.October 12, 2014 at 7:56 pm #71815
like where oxford st hits regent st. i think it’s called picadilly circus. iver there there’s like thousands of people walking every minute. i dunno about you, but i would wager i could find at the very minimum one girl i wanna bone every 3-4 minutes of that place. london rules.. (so does soho area in nyc)October 12, 2014 at 8:06 pm #71816
sorry i meant oxford circus..
picadilly circus is plenty good too thoOctober 12, 2014 at 9:02 pm #71818
Someguy: My favorite place was always around Angel Tube stop. Upper Street. Anywhere around there. People are more laid back there–just as attractive as anywhere else–and it doesn’t have that ‘Oh-I’m-in-such-a-rush’ feeling that Oxford street does.
You might also hop on the tube and get out of the center a bit sometimes too–there are fewer women, but there’s more space. e.g. Highgate. Finsbury park.
Or if you want the stylish set, try out Kensington/knightsbridge, etc…
But Upper Street is definitely my favorite 🙂
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