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- This topic has 25 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated 8 years, 4 months ago by The_Hurricane.
January 31, 2015 at 10:42 pm #72645
This is a mindset that took me 2-3 years to develop. I’ve alluded to it within previous posts, but I’ll expand on it here. Within this framework anxiety can’t exist. You’ll also understand the basic behavior patterns of people. At it’s core it’s an understanding of how the world works, how everything around you is created and destroyed. With this mindset you can basically get anything you want from people, be it sex, a relationship, business, whatever.
Before I did pickup I didn’t understand this. But after I “got it” my results in pickup skyrocketed to the point I was picking up and sleeping with girls whenever I wanted. It wasn’t a “will it happen” it was moreso a whenever I wanted it to happen type of thing. Now it’s helping me in business.
The Mindset centers around people’s interests and priorities. This is not so much about your family. This is about the other 99% of people you run into in your daily life. Your friends, Your bosses, your colleagues, your acquaintances, the girls you’re starting to date, girls on the street, girls in a club, strangers around you in the coffeeshop, the street, the mall, the supermarket, people you meet for the very first time, etc.
The rule can be applied to the aforementioned people like this: “nobody cares about you, they care about their own interests. they will put their own interests and priorities above you 100% of the time to the point where you don’t even exist. Do not take it personally. EVER. it’s simply the way human beings work.
Therefore, in your own frame of reference they are merely objects. NPCs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-player_character) roaming about the world. Pay no mind to them and ALWAYS put your interests above them even if your interests conflict with theirs.”
this might seem like a pessimistic statement, but it’s not. it’s the way the world works. I’m not saying you can’t form relationships with these people and have them like you etc. But I’m just saying even if you do, they will always put their interests and priorities above you 100% of the time. My best friends do that to me all the time:
Me> “Hey Joe, want to know if u wanted to catch a movie?”
Joe> “Sorry man, gotta date.. some other time?”
Me> “Hey Sara, I wanted to know if you wanted to hang out tonight?”
Sara> (doesn’t even respond…)
Me> “Hey, I had fun talking. Can I take your number and maybe we can talk sometime?
Her> Sorry I have a boyfriend.
However, two weeks later, I can try again:
Me> Hey Joe, wanna go to a movie?
Joe> of’course man! let’s do it!
Me> “Hey Sara, want to hang out this weekend?”
Sara> sure, what did you have in mind?
Me> “Hey, I had fun talking. Can I take your number and maybe we can talk sometime?”
Her> “Sure, it’s blablabla”
This rule is important because once you “get it”. You’ll understand the approach anxiety is a fragment of your imagination. And the reason why a girl “flakes” or says “no” to you. Is most often than not a reflection of her own priorities/interests not because you did anything “wrong”. Here’s a few examples:
a) she just got laid and doesn’t feel like talking to another guy.
b) she just got fired from her job and is mad at the world
c) she’s going out with her girlfriends tonight
d) she’s out with her family
… and on and on, an infinite amount really.
The only way to really battle this is to just understand another basic rule: PEOPLE’S PRIORITIES/INTERESTS CHANGE ALL THE TIME. Therefore be persistent. They’ll come around to it. But above all, never be unclear about what you desire from people. They need to know. Some will say “no” but once their interests/priorities change (which they will) they will say “yes”. It’s just a matter of time really, and if it isn’t time, then it’s a matter of changing people.
I’ll give you a few examples.
There’s a bum in my neighborhood that sometimes when I see him I give him change. It’s usually based on my mood though. If I’m feeling “out of it” sometimes I’ll pass by him, he’ll look at me eagerly because he knows that I give him change sometimes, but if I’m not in a good mood I’ll just say “hi” to him and pass him by. However, he NEVER knows my mood. Sometimes I just walk up to him and give him two dollars with a smile. When I’m not in a good mood though, there’s nothing on this planet he can do to change my mind. The only thing he can do is stand there in that spot and maybe one day when I’m in a better mood I’ll give him the dollar he wants.
Another example is Vegas. Last time I was there I wanted to get laid. I went alone btw. My understanding of this mindset that I’m talking to you about is so strong right now cause I’ve witnessed it so many times so I knew exactly what to do. I approached 100 women in the club that I found attractive. For each woman, after roughly 5 minutes of talking to her, I simply asked her: “Hey, would you like to come up to my room for a drink?”. I did this, most girls said no, but eventually I came across a girl that had a twinkle in her eye, I asked her this question and she said “YES!” right away. I ended up sleeping with her. Time it took: 10 minutes. And she was a blonde blue eyed innocent looking scandinavian girl that went to a good college.
Why did this work? I simply put forward my interest in a crystal clear format. And my interest was in line with hers so it worked. I would almost bet she told a friend of hers before she went out “wow, I really hope I’ll find a guy to sleep with tonight”. So we “clicked” because we had the same interests. Interests come in different formats some girls will say “wow, I really hope I’ll find my next boyfriend tonight who will love me and be with me forever”. So again, just know what you want and you’ll find the one with the same interest.
CONFLICTS OF INTERESTS
This is the tougher one to swallow. Conflicts of interests happen ALL the time. But it’s the newbies and uninitiated that take conflicts of interest personally. I see it all over this forum where guys see a flakey behavior as something that they did wrong. For example, “I contacted her last night but she hasn’t gotten back to me. What should I do???”. The ramifications of this is that guys become increasingly needy and start doing weird thing to get the girls attention. This in turn creates a vicious cycle where the guy becomes massively try-hard, goes overboard on jokes and flirty behavior and “game” and the girl at that point wants nothing to do with him because she can sense that he doesn’t understand The Mindset. People respect The Mindset.
Another conflict of interest happens on the approach itself. SOME girls will see an approach for example as a creepy thing. However, a man trying to find a date cannot see an approach creepy thing ever, because that means death to his dating life.
Which leads me to my next point:
Your beliefs, your interests, should come above everyone else’s beliefs/interests. You should NEVER for example modify your behavior to please other people’s interests. Instead, you should ALWAYS strive to find people that are inline with your interests.
Let’s get back to this “creep” thing. Some will find it creepy when a man approaches them. This is reality. Some will be completely turned off by it. There is no rhyme and reason to their rationality nor should you attempt to change it (because you can’t).
Does that mean you need to walk on eggshells with all women though? absolutely not. If anything you need to do the opposite, send your message out loud and clear to everyone. Even if people have a conflict of interest, they will respect the fact that you have a backbone and that you put your own interests in high priority. People respect people who place a huge importance on their own interests. The most successful people in history placed the strongest importance on their own interests (think einstein/physics, michael jordan/basketball, bill gates/software, etc, etc). They place their own interests so much that they’re willing to do WHATEVER it takes to achieve those interests, they commit wholeheartedly to it to the point of obsession. That’s really the only thing that makes people successful, everyone knows this.
Back to the creep thing. The ones that find it creepy you will NEVER change, but the great news is there will be SOME girls that will LOVE it! And not only that, the ones that find it creepy, their interests/priorities will change, so get them on a different day when they’ve been sitting alone in their room for the last week, now they’ll be more than happy that you’ve approached. There is no reasoning behind this. That’s why I often say that “girls are random” you can read past posts above this that I’ve written about it. Simply because you can never know what people’s priorities are at the exact instant.
Who’s Right Who’s Wrong?
Another important thing to understand in conflicts of interests is that nobody is really “wrong” objectively. A man that needs to approach many girls has to do it for his own sake to succeed, yet a woman who gets approached alot may find men that approach her to be “creepy” and lash out on them. Who’s wrong? Nobody. They’re both right to doing what they do in their own frame of reference.
The same thing goes in business. It might be your boss’s interest to keep you in your cubicle for the rest of your life, yet it might be in your interest to get out of your cubicle and make your own money. Who’s right? nobody’s right. It’s just different interests. If your interest is to get out of there, that’s fine. eventually your boss will find a different sucker that doesn’t mind being in a cubicle for the rest of his life.
Also check out all the wars in history. It’s mainly about people having different interests. Who’s right though? Does it even matter who’s right? Were Americans “right” when they kicked out the indigenous Indians living in North America before they settled here? When I say that nobody cares about your own interests is the same reason Columbus didn’t give a rats ass about the people that were living here before you came to conquer the place. It’s human nature to be like that. Accept it.
The moment I understood to put my interests above everyone (and that everyone puts their interests above mine) is the moment I said to myself “ah-ha! I get it now”. People’s interests are so strong and fascinating you can be the middle of a clothing store hitting on a girl blatantly yet you’ll notice that everyone else in the store is busy shopping. Their interests are so strong that they don’t even know you exist let alone talking to another girl. That’s why I find it so funny that guys actually care about “on-lookers”. They simply don’t understand The Mindset. 99.9% of the time people are just not interested and couldn’t care less in what you’re doing.
Go to the gym for example, you’ll find people looking at themselves in the mirror and flexing do they even notice you? absolutely not. I’ve hit on many girls directly in the gym for this exact reason. I noticed that when I go and hit on girls not one person is paying attention to me they’re busy worrying about themselves. This is what goes on in every person’s mind: ME ME ME ME. (especially in western society). It’s liberating in a way, you can actually walk around this world doing some pretty wacky things and reap the great benefits from them because nobody around you is even paying attention. That’s really the secret in pickup yet newbies don’t understand this because they haven’t gotten the reference experience.
So next time you’re in the supermarket, go up to the girl, make it crystal clear you’re picking her up (be clear in your interest/intent). See what her current priority/interest is and take it from there. If she flips out, next her as the NPC that she is, and if she goes for it, now you share the same interests. Hoorray! Know that her interests can and will change in the future though, just be persistent and NEVER think it was something you did wrong. The more you can show her that you respect her interests/priorities the more she will like you and want to hang out with you. But don’t do any “tricks” to get to like you like acting all high and mighty, aloof, etc. They do more harm than good (trust me, been there, done that).February 1, 2015 at 12:04 am #72646MrAntiquityParticipant
There’s a lot about that mindset that I like. Not all of it–but the idea that it’s YOUR world, YOU are the one who has to fully live in it, so do what YOU want to do — is frankly a pretty healthy approach to things.
Although i do think that there’s lots of things you can do “wrong” — it’s not just about the girl. The girls who have responded well to me did so in part because of how they were feeling, but also how I’ve acted. If I talk to someone about politics, I’ll have a friendly political discussion. If I tease someone, they’ll tease back, and charge the interaction. If I touch someone, they might touch back–and charge the interaction even more. If I text someone five times in a row, they’ll probably think “what’s up with this creepy loser?”
So there are definitely things you can do right or wrong, to increase/decrease your chance. The “game” business that everyoen talks about (but has different definitions for) is just a way of looking at those things that encourage flirtation/sexual interaction, rather than discourage it. But of course people are people, and both women and men are fickle in any given moment. But there are things you can do to make that a bit less of a deal-breaker.February 1, 2015 at 12:23 am #72647
Yes, you do need to do things in the realm of normality obviously I’m not advocating to go out and do crazy things like swinging your dick out in public or something. Or texting someone hundreds of times. I generally don’t send more than one text to a single girl when I ask her to go out. If she doesn’t respond I don’t send her a text for weeks, maybe I even delete her. So yes, you need to do things in the context of what you think is “right”. But you’ve had your entire life to think of what is right and wrong for you as an individual. Your personality dictates what is right and wrong. Besides, different personalities attract different people. Be unique to who you are, and you’ll attract a girl with the same interests. For example, I couldn’t attract a biker chick or girl with massive tattoos because I’m not like that, but I can attract your everyday corporate/university type of girl. Those are who I appeal to because they have the same background as me.
Just do what you want within the umbrella term of “normal”. Approaching girls isn’t something out of normality. You see many guys doing this. People don’t see it like “wow, this guy is really weird I can’t believe he’s heterosexual!” if anything, people admire courage.
What I don’t advocate is holding your thoughts in your head and not expressing them. For example, I can see you talking to a girl about politics but not going for what you really want, which is being affectionate with her or making out with her. You must be willing to lose the girl for the sake of your interest, because quite frankly if you don’t do it (and she has the interest of making out) then you will lose her. She’ll just write you off as “friend” and go with a guy that is more daring.February 1, 2015 at 12:27 am #72648
One other thing. behaviors dictate interests. Not what somebody says. A behavior is worth a thousand words. You only know someone’s interests in how they act. Their nonverbal body language, what they decide to do physically, where they go, etc. I don’t even listen to what people say anymore really. Nor does it even give me an indicator of their personality. I can tell more about a person by the way they tilt their head than by millions of words coming out of their mouth. That’s why game to me doesn’t even make sense. I get attracted to a girl by the way she moves herself. Where her eyes look, things like that. Those are things that really dictate a person’s character.
Same can be said about the guy. If your hands aren’t doing the talking with the girl, and she’s the physical type of girl. she generally doesn’t know what your interests are and you can risk losing her. that’s what newbs often lose girls to the “players”. not because the player is the “bad-boy” but because he expresses his interests loud and clear with the risk of losing the person. it’s a polarizing type of thing.February 1, 2015 at 8:09 pm #72649
Great post Ryano!February 2, 2015 at 7:07 pm #72654The_HurricaneKeymaster
Here’s the thing about mind set. It’s a way to organize thoughts you already have. It’s not a way to think thoughts that you currently don’t have. Allow me to explain.
You can tell yourself all you want that you are a confident guy and you don’t care what women think about you. Until you do hundreds and, in some cases, thousands of approaches, you will not actually feel like the confident guy who doesn’t care what women think of him.
All of this talk of mindsets is, in my opinion, pretty useless. No one out there that I have ever seen has suddenly made a breakthrough by willing themselves to think differently about themselves and the women they approach. The “breakthrough” seems to come after the fact, after they’ve done hundreds and sometimes thousands of approaches and are getting pretty desensitized to the whole process. Suddenly, they start seeing things differently, they have a different mindset. But it’s the work that creates the mindset, not the other way around.
The correct analogy is fear of heights. The only therapy that seems to work is gradually exposing yourself to greater and greater heights. Thinking that you are not a person who fears heights and telling yourself that heights don’t matter to you doesn’t actually do anything for you. In fact, statistically speaking, discussing and analyzing your mindset when you fear heights has been shown to do nothing to alleviate your fear of heights.
So, yes, I like most of the mindset that Ryano described as desirable. The problem is, there is no way to get this mindset by thinking about it. You can get it only by approaching.
–LeeFebruary 2, 2015 at 10:17 pm #72655
yeah, I agree with that. I think disappointment is what got me to this mindset, experiencing it again and again to the point of desensitization which could not have happened on its own.
Disappointment in the fact that flakes/rejections and shattered hopes just happened to me again and again from a whole host of girls due to a whole host of reasons. And it was unstoppable and the only thing that was holding me back was me “caring” about it and I’d mull it over and just waste precious time. Whereas now I know that it’s useless to do that. And girls will forever have their bullshit. The more I stopped worrying about other people’s behaviors the more results I got because my mind was free to just take action as opposed to worrying about things I couldn’t change.
For example when I was a newbie. I’d see a girl in the mall, in the store. And I’d go inside my head back and forth about what to say/how to say/when to say, etc. I’d beat myself up for like a half hour just watching her from the side. And when I’d finally get the nerve to go up to her she’d casually say “oh sorry, I have a bf” and to turn round on her heel like she could care less that I made the effort. That got me thinking “well why DID I make an effort? why DID I spend a half hour thinking about this.” so I kept reducing the amount of time I spent thinking about girls I approached. To the point where I didn’t think about them AT ALL. And ironically, that’s what got me better results. Not only due to efficiency of me not wasting time, but because the girl realized that I truly didn’t care about her (esp. when I don’t know what the situation of a complete stranger is). Nowadays I just flat out ask the girl if she’s single. I don’t waste time at all and I definitely don’t want to engage them in conversation. It’s a waste of my time esp on an unproven target.
Or I’d make plans with a girl and get super excited over it only for her to back out at the last minute. This happened again and again to the point where I didn’t notice it anymore. Or I’d just say to the girl casually “no problem, let’s talk tomorrow.” and then we did.. bc she noticed that I didn’t make a big deal out of it. Whereas in the past I’d be furious with her. Same with a girl not returning my texts, or things like that. I stopped holding it against them. I just decided that they’re all like that.
I realized that people’s priorities was a part of nature and I figured out that ALL people are like that. Not just girls. My friends too. That mindset expanded towards everyone I came in contact with, my colleagues, my bosses. Everyone. Myself as well. I saw my actions fitting this model too. I’m no better. Then I realized we’re all just a copy of each other. And the moment you truly understand that we’re all the same is the moment you become alot more comfortable around people. But yeah.. like you said, you gotta go through many many people to see these patterns.February 2, 2015 at 10:52 pm #72656
It’s amazing what this stuff does to your outlook.
I’m still far from the mindset that Ryano talks about. (I am getting better though – I was able to approach two girls today, very direct, with no warmup whatsoever. Back on track.)
However, in the past year and a half since I’ve started doing this, I’ve seen some real changes.
I’ve got more assertive. I look people in the eyes more. I get people telling me I’m confident. I’ve stopped taking hurtful things personally. I’ve doubled my income(!). I’ve been able to come out of my shell at work. My therapist even told me I walk differently. I could go on..
I’m sure some of this is down to a combination of self-improvement efforts, but I honestly feel like approaching women on a regular basis has done far more for me than any other thing I’ve done. I have played music on a stage in front of thousands of people, and that did nothing for my confidence in comparison.
So many people think it is crazy, weird or even unethical to do this stuff, and yet it is arguably one of the most powerful things a guy could do for himself.February 3, 2015 at 5:52 am #72660
That’s great man, even when I was here last time I sensed from you that you “get it”. And yes, it totally changes your entire outlook. My whole outlook on what’s possible in regards to other things like entrepreneurship has changed solely because of pickup.
And as far as direct I didn’t mean to come across to say that’s what I do at all times. I think more importantly is just to be unfiltered and “do what you want”. If you like a girl’s jacket, or you want to just say “how’s your day going?” to a girl next to you that’s still fine. (as long as you ask her out at the end if you’re into her then that’s all that matters). idea though is to just train yourself to just say the first thing that pops into your head. that makes you more prolific as far as the amount of interactions you create in a day.February 3, 2015 at 7:02 pm #72661
Fair enough man. I don’t think the direct approach is necessarily the best, I’ve been using others too, but I think direct is the best for getting over AA.February 3, 2015 at 9:36 pm #72662The_HurricaneKeymaster
I disagree with that “direct is best for getting over AA” statement. I have students who get physically ill thinking about a direct approach. No exaggeration. The direct approach is the pickup equivalent of skydiving as a means of getting over a fear of heights. The trauma of one such event would stop most people from continuing their pursuit of a cure. Cognitive behavioral therapists advocate exactly what is taught in Eric’s book, a gentle, gradual approach in which your confidence grows as you realize that there are few consequences to failure. Throwing yourself into stressful situations before you are ready is dangerous and can have really negative long term consequences. By the time you’re ready, the question of what is the best approach for getting over AA is not very important.
–LeeFebruary 3, 2015 at 10:20 pm #72663MrAntiquityParticipant
I think it depends. I agree w/Lee that the direct approach isn’t best for someone like me, because I’m able to do it about 0% of the time, and when I do manage to do it, I say “wow, that was cool!” but don’t find myself any further than I was before. Also, as Lee’s saying–if you push something too far, you can really do some lasting damage–self-induced trauma.
But in other cases, if you’re just nervous, a similar feeling to, say, calling a girl for the first time back in junior high school, or asking someone on a date, if that’s the nature of your “approach anxiety”then it may well be a “just do it”, then it’s out of the way.
But for severe anxiety often you can’t just start saying whatever you want–it’s a slow release process that can take months or years.February 3, 2015 at 11:00 pm #72664
I agree with what you guys are saying – I was just talking about my own situation having worked on this for a while and got rid of my lower-level AA.Indirect approaches don’t bother me now. Direct approaches are still scary for me but not overwhelmingly so.
They are also easy – no waiting for the right moment, no worrying about trying to sound serendipitous. I am also using your deep thoughts opener a lot Lee, but I find myself hesitating more when using it. So I’m basically using direct approaches as my warmup now.February 3, 2015 at 11:26 pm #72665
Meh, as far as what is the best approach for beginners. I’d say direct just from my own experiences. I had eric as a coach who taught me indirect, later on I had sasha daygame that taught me direct. and comparing the two experiences i can easily say that doing direct was like a religious awakening to me. and by far the more important of the two esp as a beginner.
guys that suck with women is usually because they over analyze and go into theories of what is the “best” way to approach women. indirect feeds into that mindset in the worst way. you start wasting time trying to figure out what the best way to “transition” is as opposed to actually doing what’s important and effective: flirting with a girl and asking a girl out.
mr. antiquity if you do direct 0% of the time i would strongly urge you to reconsider that. i’d say direct should be done 80-90% of the time.
and when i say direct i dont mean necessarily “i thought you were cute blabla” i mean conveying to the woman your intent right away. where you nonverbals indicate to her that you’re a potential suitor. ie talking to her on a personal/flirty level where “transitioning” is not required at all. what lee does with his deep thoughts for example i consider direct.
what i dont consider direct is asking a woman for directions and then having to transition, for my experience is just doesnt work anywhere as effective as you just approaching her and asking her out. esp. for beginners. the more advanced you are you can start bending the rules: giving her mixed messages, for example asking her about the weather and then transitioning in a smooth way.. but for beginners that have not talked to many women and dont know how to flirt. you’ll far creep alot more women out than if u’d have just gone direct and put your intention out in the open from the start.February 4, 2015 at 12:04 am #72666
for me the experience was like this:
year1: doing a ton of indirect. “do you know how to get to…?” type of questions. hardly got me anywhere due to issues with transitioning and having many girls look at me like “wtf do you want from me, i just answered your question”. eventually i got good with transitioning, but my motivation wasn’t there alot of the time. like after work the last thing i wanted to do was trick girls with stupid questions about how to get somewhere, it just started getting boring to me. that’s when i started looking into direct in a more serious way..
year2: doing a ton of direct. vanilla direct like. “hey, just wanted to say i thought you looked cute/nice/etc”. got me tons of dates and results.
year3: doing what i call, whatever the hell i want as long as i’m flirting. sometimes indirect. sometimes direct. but my intent and flirting is always there. so even with indirect i’d open with “hey do you know how to cook pasta?” followed by “great i’m looking for a chef, can we make that happen sometime?”.
now, if i had to pick it’d probably be just going direct. girls need to know that you’re not hiding behind your intent. alot of guys i’ve coached i specifically told them not to hide behind their intent bc of all the time wasted i had on year1. also it keeps you from approaching hot girls bc you keep thinking “what should i say?” etc. while i like eric and his teachings it just wasn’t as effective for me due to the lack of intent. and now i know that girls just want you to be crystal clear or you risk wasting time. now that i’m advanced i could probably make indirect work because i know how to flirt. but when i was a beginner? forget about it. i creeped so many girls out with indirect. indirect is probably alot “creepier” than direct is because you’re inherently hiding behind a mask.. so u need to be advanced to pull it off right.
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