"spontaneous" vs "structured"

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  • #71980

    I don’t see why there’s anything wrong with using a structure or a routine, if it works.

    I mean, are we here to win awards for pickup style, or to meet women? I know what I care about.

    Having said that, I don’t see how you can possibly be good with women without being able to handle spontaneous, random conversation too.


    @ Ryanno

    Please take a moment to read the bottom of my opening post :

    These days, I almost never lie or bullshit to girls. I don’t feel the need to. More often, I challenge them…”

    I avoid making up professions like “ I’m a male exotic dancer “ or similar stuff….( as you’ve mentioned in another thread on this forum )

    That’s too try hard for me.

    I have a simple script ( one that Lee helped me develop ) that I tell girls….and I follow it….and the more I do it, the more ‘natural’ it sounds….I am after all describing what I really do….

    Girls will ask what I do only when they are beginning to take an interest.…..

    Sometimes at a high energy place like a party or a bar, the conversation might go as follows :

    Girl : so…what do you do….?
    Me : Me ?….In my dreams or in my reality ?
    Girl : haha……you must be doing something …..?!
    Me : I don’t “must” be doing anything girl, but you seem intelligent so take a guess, what do you think I do….?
    Girl:…hmmm…….I dunno….er…..
    Me : ok, I’ll give you a hint, it’s the second oldest profession in the world …
    Girl : ( usually a smile comes up now ) ….hmmmm…. wait, you’re not a pimp are you …..or maybe a gigolo…..?
    Me : ( feigning indignation ) … OMG, you have a dirty mind and a terrible opinion of your fellow man, don’t you girl….( I laugh now ) nope, no money in being a gigolo, that is one area where women outshine men….
    I am a …….( and I continue with my script )

    In bars and events, I’ve played out this conversation with minor variations many times…

    In more quiet circumstances ( café, street corner , subway ) I shorten it a bit, but that’s pretty much how it goes….

    Role play during banter is an effective way to get people to open up….So I’ll say stuff like “ in another life, this is what I dreamt of being ….I’d have my own chocolate factory, I love chocolates, I figure I’d either make money & do what I loved, or if it didn’t work out, simply eat all the chocolate I couldn’t sell and die super fat and super happy with a huge grin on my face….what about you girl, who would you be in your dreams/if you could do it all over again…..?”

    In my case, without getting into a 15-20 minute conversation with a girl on an approach, regardless of opener, the number almost always flakes…. Also, talking helps to discover if she’s worth wasting time on….some girls are total whack jobs or bores….

    @ dyonisos – for a girl walking in the same direction, I’ll sometimes open with “ Hey , you’re walking real fast, come, I’ll race you to the crosswalk/starbucks… loser buys coffee”……( and then segue into what she does or deep thoughts )

    I don’t like to run up to fast moving girls from behind to pay them a compliment ( the way the daygame.com guys used to teach before and all their youtube videos show) so I rarely do that anymore. Some guys can pull it off but I don’t enjoy it so much….I learnt very fast that if I can’t maintain an interesting conversation , they will very quickly say “ Thank you “ and walk away ( as some one else once posted in this forum ) …so its back to the importance of what comes after the opener….which is where I started my opening post to this thread.

    @ some guy UK

    You’re right, its important to have good conversation skills, and weave in and out , between the scripts and the spontaneous stuff that comes up as our conversation with the girl develops…


    Well I do like the conversation example you gave cartoox, and the “race, loser buys coffee thing”. so you do seem like you know what you’re doing.

    But that example that I gave you with the exotic dancer, I mean, I’ve said that once in my life to a girl. What I meant was, I usually just say what I want, whatever amuses *ME* at the moment. And it’s always different.

    Similarly, I don’t have the same conversations with my friends everytime I talk to them. Or let’s say I go to a business convention. I don’t rehearse how I “open” people. I just talk to them and say whatever I talk. Same with girls. Girls should be no different than ANYBODY. The moment you change yourself, your persona for a girl– then you’re the one that’s working for her.

    So I’m not trying hard, I’m not trying at all quite frankly. Do you think I “rehearsed” what I thought about saying in this thread before I wrote it? Absolutely not, these words that I’m writing right now on this keyboard are coming realtime through my thoughts and that’s all I’m telling you guys to do when you talk to women. But some guys think it’s hard because they’re not comfortable enough to do that. Or they think they need something special to impress them, like they need to be this super-human being. Which is bullshit. We’re all just human. All you need to do is be 1% better than the other guy, not 100% better.

    Also I know, quite frankly, I can say ANYTHING verbally to a girl that’s why I don’t even make a deal out of the verbal or the content SO much. Vibe is something that can’t be explained. It’s the sexual “tone” in the air. Something that can only be conveyed with body language. In a pickup forum here all we have is characters on a screen.

    There’s alot more to all of this than just what we say. But I’m just trying to convey spontaneity to these guys because that’s what indicates to the girl that you’re “carefree” and makes her feel comfortable around you.


    Besides, I don’t know how you guys can keep a straight face when you have the same conversation thread with every girl.

    If somebody told me right now that I have to have the same opener, the same conversation with EVERY girl for the rest of my life I’d quite frankly put a gun to my head, and I’m not even kidding. I hate things that are the same. Some guys are more robotic than others and it suits them.


    Do you guys also have an algorithm to how you have sex?

    1. I kiss her.
    2. Remove her bra.
    3. Have her give me a blowjob
    4. Missionary Position
    5. Doggy Style
    6. Cum on her face.

    Man you guys. SMH. I’m dealing with computers here not people.



    If a girl gives you the opportunity to find out something interesting about her and you don’t take it, you’re nuts. That’s when you should deviate from your script.

    But if she’s just bantering and you’re going with it at the expense of topics that are important to you, you are missing an even bigger opportunity. Same goes for any point in the conversation. When it’s just meaningless chit chat, I like to bring it right back to what’s important.

    At the end of the interaction she should know some of the things that are important to you, and you should know how she feels about those things, as well as some of the things that are important to her. She should understand that you have high standards, that you’re not excited about every beautiful girl who spends a little time bantering with you. That has a very powerful effect.

    To me, all of the supposedly different “natural” approaches that we see in these videos are really the same. The words may be different, but the content is almost identical. Ask a meaningless question or make a meaningless comment. Compliment her, compliment her, compliment her. Banter, banter, banter. Ask for her number. The guy leaves knowing nothing about the girl. The girl leaves knowing nothing about the guy.

    It’s as if the time between 830AM and 5PM – the time when we go to work or go to school – doesn’t exist. It’s as if art, music, literature, and film don’t exist. It’s as if we all work restaurant jobs that we don’t want to talk about. It’s as if all of our lives revolve around light flirting and making each other feel desired, and that’s the only skill we want to exercise with a potential romantic partner.

    There are a few guys out there who understand that our lives are about more than just our ability to banter, but for the most part, all of the videos out there are really just slightly re-worded versions of the above.

    That’s why all of my students say something different, something unique about their jobs, their interests, their families, their relationships, and sex. Everyone is unique, so what they say is unique, the ACTUAL CONTENT, not just the words.


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