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- This topic has 7 replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 9 years ago by AriMoJ.
February 25, 2014 at 1:02 am #71178
This is not an approach/dating issue, it’s a relationship/sex issue…
I’ve been together with my girlfriend for about 10 months now and even though the sex is great, she’s never in the mood for it anymore. I still give her the best orgasms she’s had and afterwards she can’t believe that she didn’t want to have sex and she doesn’t know why she’s never in the mood. We have a great relationship otherwise, she couldn’t be more in love with me and even though we argue and have our issues, it’s a good relationship, with lots of love. She used to want sex all the time when we started seeing each other, but now I have to convince her, or work really hard to get her to have sex every time. I’ve explained that I have needs and that I need to have sex at least once a week, maybe twice (I don’t think that’s asking too much), and we do have sex, but it’s a struggle. And she says the more I push her, the less she wants to have sex. I could pull back and not push her and hope that she’ll want it, but I don’t know if I can go weeks without sex. I don’t know what to do…?February 25, 2014 at 7:29 pm #71180
It’s not just the low frequency of sex you have to be worried about. This girl is not as attracted to you as she should be, and yes, you should be pulling away. The sex problem is a symptom of the fact that she is losing attraction for you. To get it back, you have to remind her of how much she needs you and how valuable you are. Start becoming less available. Start making plans to do things without her. Don’t beg for sex. If she doesn’t initiate it, let it go, but if the evening doesn’t get intimate when you expect it, cut it short. Don’t explain. Explanations and discussions can temporarily make her do what you want, but they can’t change her attraction to you. Only a change in her perception of your value can change her attraction to you. Take action quickly, while you still have leverage.
–LeeFebruary 26, 2014 at 3:15 am #71181
I like the current frequency, that’s not the problem, but it’s absolutely my concern that she’s not attracted to me anymore. I could make myself even less available, but she has low self-esteem and is always worried that I’ll break up with her, so me not wanting to hang out may make her feel punished. I tried to cut a phone conversation short and she thought I was upset and I didn’t want to talk with her. Pulling away is harder to do when you’re in a relationship. When she comes over for the night, as usual, and if the evening doesn’t culminate in her wanting sex, I can’t cut it short and tell her to go home without explanation, particularly as we usually have plans for the next day. That would be pretty severe. Besides, she’d know it’s because of the sex issue, and it would make her feel even worse than she already does for not being horny. She constantly tells me that she couldn’t love me any more than she already does. She thinks I’m her world… so I don’t know if ‘value’ is the problem. I think it’s more so that desire has been replaced with love. I just watched the ‘Esther Perel TED Talk’ video Eric posted on ‘love’ being the anti-aphrodisiac and I think that it hit the nail on the head. I need to try and bring desire back into the relationship, but it just seems like I have to do even more work.
http://approachanxiety.com/2013/04/the-secret-to-desire-in-long-term-relationships/February 26, 2014 at 8:35 pm #71183Eric DiscoKeymaster
If this girl has all the outward signs of being into you–taking initiative to hang out with you, to contact you, if she is touching you a lot while you’re hanging out and acting like she’s really into you, then it’s possible the problem could be with her libido. It’s possible her birth control pill is causing her libido to dip or she’s having some other kind of physical issue. I typically do not bring up this option because it’s not usually a physical problem with the girl. It’s very easy to write it off as that. But if she truly is into you as much as you’re saying she is, then you may want to find out if something is wrong with her.
It’s also possible she’s bored of sex with you or is cheating on you with someone else. It’s possible you really have gotten too comfortable with her in that maybe she doesn’t see you as alpha at all. You coddle her and care for her needs too closely.
You know, whatever it is, it almost doesn’t matter. You need to ask yourself if you want to continue the way you are in a relationship with a girl who doesn’t want to have sex with you. That’s a huge problem. I would pull back regardless. And the fact that you feel that pulling back at all is too ‘severe’ says to me maybe you’re over-invested in this and are over-estimating her investment in it. Perhaps her eye is wandering. Just because she’s insecure and talks about being afraid you’ll break up with her, doesn’t mean that she hasn’t lost attraction for you. Some girls can be very, very good at making a guy think she is super into them when in reality she’s just insecure.
EricFebruary 27, 2014 at 4:07 pm #71184
Even the way you’re talking about this spells trouble. You’re describing a situation in which you are afraid to take anything away. You are telling us that you can improve things only by adding something. That attitude is a trap. If she knows that this is your attitude – as she surely, surely does – you have already lost. What you’re telling us is that no matter how she behaves – no matter if you’re happy or not – she can stay over and, the next day, you’re going to go through with whatever plans you had previously made as if nothing had happened.
It doesn’t matter what people tell you about what they want. People are complex and may need years of therapy just to figure out that they’re deluding themselves. The only thing that matters is how people behave. When a woman is giving you less than you need, you should reciprocate. There will be lots of tension and misinterpretation, and there may be some fights, but the alternative is far worse.
You are fundamentally misinterpreting how to influence people. First, you must convince someone that you’re valuable. Presumably, that is how your girl first decided to go out with you, or your employer first decided to hire you. That equation never changes. The most valuable thing you have to give someone is YOU. In the end, whether this is your employer or your lover, the only leverage you have is YOU. Only by maintaining that perception that you’re valuable while convincing the other person that you may take yourself away from them do you ultimately have the leverage to get them to change.
Your weakest hand is to ask them to change. Your strongest hand is to start disengaging as you get less and less of what you want. In the workplace, this would be sending out some resumes. In a relationship, it would be spending less time with someone.
Complaining, whining, and discussing is not attractive. It’s not what makes women think of men as strong, valuable, and in control of their own happiness. You will have no success getting your girlfriend to take part in little role playing games of the type suggested in the Esther Perel book until you give her a reason to want to do it. She will want to do it when she realizes that she is happier when you are more engaged rather than less engaged, but for her to realize this, you have to give her an example of what it feels like when you start to pull away. You have to make the possibility of this loss credible.
–LeeMarch 7, 2014 at 5:35 pm #71193
@Lee. I appreciate your read on the situation, but that’s not how it goes at all. It’s not as if I don’t get my way and then continue onto the next day like a chump. I always get what I want. If she ‘refused’ to have sex, then it would be a real problem. Like I said, we DO have sex, but it usually involves an argument about how she’s not ‘horny’ or as ‘into’ it as I am. I’m just sick of having the same argument.
I agree with what you’re saying, but I’ve learnt so much over the years and I don’t make those rookie mistakes anymore. I always pull away when I don’t get the attention I deserve. And I know how to create value. I wrote in because there is something else going on.
@Eric. Yes, she is always completely affectionate towards me. And she’s definitely not bored with our sex, she’s just not ‘horny’ and she hates that she never feels horny. As it turns out, she altered her medication which reduced her libido, but she was afraid to tell me.
I’m her ‘Dominant’, if you know what that means you’ll know that seeing me as her Alpha is not an issue, if anything she has issue with me being too Alpha, but that’s another discussion. But I agree that coddling her is a problem. Because I’m not only her ‘Dominant’, I’m also her caring ‘daddy’. So she feels safe and loved. She’s been in a very comfortable and ‘nesting’ mood lately, because she wants to get married and have children with me (not immediately, but in a few years), so I don’t think I’m over-estimating her investment. The problem is I don’t know if that’s what I want.
I think my main problem is just that she and I are not in the same ‘place’. So I just have to decide whether or not the relationship is worth continuing. Otherwise it just feels like I’m leading her on, if ‘happily ever-after’ isn’t on my agenda.
But thanks guys, as usual, great advise and I would agree with all of it, if the situation was as you intended it.March 8, 2014 at 9:18 pm #71194
Well, wouldn’t be the first time we gave the wrong advice. There’s a lot of noise in this stuff and we’re not there ourselves to see what’s going on. That having been said, you have to make sure that you’re not deluding yourself. We’ve seen a lot more of that on this site than we have of the kind of special situation that you’re describing. Many men will tell us that the general advice doesn’t apply to them and then log in six months or a year later to say they learned their lesson the hard way. We certainly hope you’re not in that group. Still, there are parts of your description of what’s wrong that don’t make sense to me. She wants to marry you. She wants a long term relationship. She’s really into you. You’re the dominant one. All of that should mean great sex! The fact that you’re experiencing something else and the fact that you are clearly uncomfortable thinking about ways of pulling back say to me that the problem may be more in line with the assumptions Eric and I made. Again, no guarantees. We are not there to see it ourselves, but the pattern you’re describing is pretty common. Look hard at the mirror and try to figure out whether you’re being honest with yourself.
–LeeMarch 9, 2014 at 2:06 am #71195
The sex IS great, that was the second sentence of my first post. But the problem is with her libido, which is because of medication (my thanks to Eric for recognising that possibility). The doctor has said it will take months for her libido to return…. grrrr!
I’m always checking in with myself that I am being true to my convictions. But sometimes pulling away can be difficult… When she’s trying so hard and doing everything she can to make me happy, but her body isn’t obeying, she gets upset and cries and feels like she’s worthless. For me to then punish her for that is cruel and unusual. I do love this girl and I don’t want to be ruthless. How she ‘feels’ isn’t within her control, but having sex is, because that’s a choice and she does always oblige. She is a good girl and has never said ‘no’ whenever I ask her to get on her knees. When she does something ‘wrong’ that’s actually within her control, that’s when I pull away.
Thanks again. It’s always good to read helpful advice in whatever form it comes, even if it’s not for this specific situation. You guys do a great job.
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