Read Me: Why Guys Aren't Getting Consistent Lays on this Forum
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- This topic has 39 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated 8 years, 5 months ago by Cartoox.
September 29, 2014 at 10:38 pm #71698
Sure numbers flake and date flakes but when you understand it’s seldom your “fault” that’s when you can focus on getting more of each. Guys new to this are obsessed with the “rejection” of scenerio that they take up alot of unnecessary time questioning themselves and are burried in guilt. I couldve saved 2 years if I hadnt done that.September 29, 2014 at 10:57 pm #71699kiriyama_27Participant
Fuck this is almost exactly what I need to hear right now.
re: guy saying you are average – maybe you aren’t. I thought I was for the longest time then for the first time in my life put together a good run of game, scored ten numbers in a month (usually how many I’d get in three years). When I had it goin on, I felt better looking. For all I know I was actually better looking. The stolen glances and check outs I thought I wasn’t getting, I was. A lot of em. Maybe I just got better at catching them, but I felt like I looked great and things were happening for me. Maybe just get that ball rolling the first time and you will get so much swagger you can pull off this type of thing no problem.
How can these girls even tell you are high status anyway? Unless you lead with your dick measurement, annual salary, and tangible assets in your game all they can do is try and guess based on the way you present yourself. Act high status, and they will believe it – and make it easier for you to believe it yourself. It sounds like a con but after a while it won’t be.
As you can tell I am talkin past tense here. I squandered that attention on being a milquetoast nice guy motherfucker like I’ve always been. I started strong and fucked it up with every one of those girls.
I don’t really want to lose touch with that since it is who I’ve been for the last 28 years, but god damn. I am not getting my annual dose of pussy in my life. What Ryano is saying might be a little over the top. But this is what I needed to hear.September 29, 2014 at 11:41 pm #71701
Thank you kind sir.
Although I wouldn’t even say act “high status” because I don’t even know what the heck that means. Just act like yourself, and hit on more girls. Period.
And let me just expand on “act like yourself” because guys don’t seem to understand that:
here’s what “act like yourself” means: when you talk to a girl and ask out a girl or escalate on a girl on a date you do not flinch. by flinch i mean your voice attenuates upwards, or you fidget, or you act nervous in some way. by acting nervous — this is not yourself! this is a scared little pussy.. so if you do that, you need to get to the point that when you ask out a girl or escalate in some way you do it with the same expression you have when you’re drinking a glass of water- ie “no big deal”. when you got that then you’re there. that’s all I mean is “act yourself”. and girls are waaaaay attracted to this. they see you as “cool” like wow, this guy is experience in the pussy-arts I must know him. he’s smooth. but you shouldn’t act all high and mighty “high status” lol.
And when you’ll be having sex with more girls, you’ll naturally carry yourself in a way that indicates this, and then it just snowballs. not because the girls sense you’re “high status” but because there’s a little grin in the back of your head that knows that you can replicate this because all girls work the same basically. But you don’t fake anything. “fake it till you make it”, that’s not right.
p.s what you say about the glances is true. I think they were always there but now you just spot them better b/c you start to realize women are horny. women’s iois are very quick. like 500ms or something, like they’ll just look at you for a split second. but when it’s there, it’s soooo there.September 30, 2014 at 12:15 am #71702kiriyama_27Participant
LOL +1 to that again.
I had a bad habit of over-complicating it… had all these sophisticated routines in my head, this and that, and I could barely keep it straight. Limited (read: No) success.
First breakthrough was when I listened to a free audio clip Eric posted on this site here. He barely did anything! It sounded like nothing at all, he just mentioned some sex survey and talked like a normal guy about normal small talk shit. Bam, digits in two minutes or less. Key word – talk like a NORMAL GUY. It took forever for this to actually click for myself, because of a lifetime of conditioning.
You didn’t see his posture, or where he was standing, but like 90% of it is this. That is all I changed in my game, and instantly there was success. Stand straight, eye contact, good voice. Non-verbals and the confident voice. The voice is a real killer, I think. If you sound like a weenie, you are sunk, instantly.
I am fundamentally the same guy before and after, but my presentation of myself has improved and so have my results – initially. My escalation was super shaky because I started fucking around, doubting myself, wondering what we were working towards, all kinds of Too Nice Guy stuff that makes me want to cringe right out of my skin now. If I had just taken this advice and gone for it, I’d have maybe three booty calls right now instead of a clean slate and another 40 sets.
You didn’t have the strongest round of videos.. I’d seen them before, and thought the same thing. Weak number closes. But I know enough guys personally that are just not all that high value but rake in women anyway to know there is, absolutely, truth to what you are saying.September 30, 2014 at 3:47 am #71703
Yes, I think it’s more about being unfiltered and saying whatever YOU want to say than having a routine. Because it shows that you don’t put so much emphasis into them, ie you’re only entertaining yourself which is way more attractive.
I remember I always had a format of how to talk to women. The moment I said “fuck it” and just talked to them ANY way I felt like in the moment. Whether it was just saying to a woman next to me in starbucks “hey, what’d you get?” or whether it was just stopping a girl on the street with “hey, where do you think you’re going?” or just in the supermarket using a throw away comment like “you shouldn’t get that.. it tastes terrible” and then improvising, that’s when I got more success, because I wasn’t trying to re-create anything. I just blurted out whatever the first thing that came to my mind was without questioning it. Sometimes I even just say “How are you?” (How are you? what an opener!!) to the chick standing next to me in the subway. Works a treat.
I remember daygame.com once had a format:
– Use Pre-history
– Say I thought you looked “nice” (yes, they use that adjective EVERY fucking time)
– “Because” and then say something about specific about them.
And these guys would do the same shit EVERYWHERE. like there’s this one vid where jon matrix does that in a supermarket. and then he goes and does the same thing in the subway. I’m thinking to myself, is this a robot or a human being?
So my first few years were spent on just running after the “correct” format on how to talk to girls and it was driving me crazy. I felt weird and I felt stifled. Like now I’m supposed to run in the street and ask girls about how to get to Starbucks EVERY fucking time, or just running after each one and tell them they’re pretty?
Now I only focus on improvising and free forming EVERYTHING. None of my openers are the same, none of my dates are the same. And I still get the same results, because I understand the fundamentals. I know how to flirt with girls better. And I understand that women are horny and some are just not at a given time, and it’s not about me at all! so it’s freeing. I can do WHATEVER the hell *I* want, and I never let any girls (or any “PUA” guys) dictate how I do anything. Because I know any “format” can always be turned against and it’d still work. Including the “format” to act “high value”. Which is a joke. I bet if I acted “low value” and wear shitty clothes I could still get them.September 30, 2014 at 5:42 am #71704
@ someguyUK your reply # 71693 –
thats a very valid point you made up there and the main issue for us guys who have been at this for a while.
I’ve seen Lee in action in NYC. I can only say that I dream to reach his level of game. I’ve seen a very good looking, highly educated set of his ask him out on a date first, 2 days after taking his card. In comparison I’ve taken lots of phone numbers and gone nowhere.
from my limited game experience, Self Confidence is what initially helps establish “status” to most women, and the way to demonstrate the confidence is to lead, be relatively unreactive, and not be afraid to challenge the girl when she puts out nonsense. Building this vibe up is crucial & involves lots of inner game as well ( and yes , it takes a bloody long time and a commitment to getting there)
Intelligence also demonstrates status. being able to debate & discuss various topics, and having strong opinions all add to perceived status.
Looks do matter – but as the guys in the forum here have said – much can be done to improve this aspect quickly.
As a close friend of mine who moonlighted as a male model said once ” Bro, its not that the girls don’t care about our looks, but they are much more forgiving about it than we guys ”
Numbers by themselves are fairly meaningless, I get several a week when I’m gaming, and almost all turn into flakes, except those that I manage to get into a conversation with – say around 15 minutes – and build up some connection. Flakes include girls who indicated they wanted me to approach and even girls who initiated text game.
@ Ryano – Thank you for taking the trouble to post those video links, especially the Elite link about the homeless street Gigolo. however the girls in them aren’t worth a second look. Sorry.
( given your own experience at this game, I doubt you find them appealing as well )September 30, 2014 at 5:54 am #71705
@ ryano your reply #71703
I’ll quote Tom Torero here :
“For a while, the new behavioral pattern and beliefs will look and feel unnatural.This is the period of using the ” training wheels” of PUA lines, routines, gambits and structures.
After a while ( depending on how much infield practice takes place ) then the new mindsets and structures will start to become embedded, and the training wheels can be removed.
Beckster describes it as the process of becoming a ” SuperNatural” where in the beginning of someone’s PUA journey a guys is using 80% structures, and 20% of his own personality. After a few years of practice, then it will switch to 80% freestyling with his own personality and 20% structure. Thus the guy becomes better at seducing women than either the PUA or the “natural“”
( i believe Beckster is someone Tom learned a lot from )September 30, 2014 at 6:43 pm #71706The_HurricaneKeymaster
First, thanks for the thumbs up. I’m a fan of the stuff you’ve written here before, too.
To each his own, but regarding game and structure, this is how I think about it. It’s kinda the opposite of the process that you described above. When you start out, the easiest thing to do is just say hello and give her a few compliments. Why? Because you’re scared shitless and you won’t be able to remember much more than that. So you go in there, you pop her with something simple and direct, you give her a few compliments, and you hold on for dear life.
At that point, game is much more about what she wants than about what you want. You want sex, but that’s obvious. You approached her based on her looks, so there’s no need to explain that one, but it’s not about much else. You’re just not that selective.
At some point in your evolution, you start seeing more and more success and your life fills up with beautiful women. You get picky, and your game becomes much more about what you want than about what she wants.
You want a whole bunch of things. Her beauty isn’t enough. You have plenty of that. You want someone smart and interesting and funny and creative and loyal and blah blah blah. At that point, when you meet girls, your conversations start to turn towards the things that matter to you.
I’m a reader. Doesn’t matter how beautiful a non-reader is. I’m not going on a date with her. Period. I don’t want to get laid so much that I’m willing to give up a whole evening with someone whose world is so small. That’s one of my filters, but I have others.
Unless you’re a total chameleon, the more you start talking about the things that matter to you, the more you start talking about the same things over and over and over. If you talk about your favorite book a hundred times, guess what? It doesn’t matter if you have a script. It’s going to start coming out the same way.
That’s where I am with my game. I talk about the things that matter to me because I want to meet women who – if they don’t share my interests – at least understand my interests. And because the things that matter to me don’t change that often, guess what, neither does what I say to women. It’s been a few years since I practiced an approach, but it doesn’t matter. I pretty much say the same thing each and every time. Why? Because it would be infinitely harder to think of some new way to say it when it’s been naturally coming out this way for years.
So this is the way I see it. When you’re new, your game is random. It’s about whatever pops into your mind. Later, when you see some success, your game is much more about what you want, which is not random. If you talk about what interests you again and again and again, you can’t help but start saying it almost the same way each and every time, and then, lo and behold, whether you want it or not, you have a structure.
Here is the amazing thing. When you start qualifying women on things that really matter to you, magic starts to happen, and part of that magic is that some women start chasing you. This view is completely consistent with the social dynamics research that has been coming out of academia over the past couple of years.
–LeeOctober 1, 2014 at 7:05 am #71707TedtedParticipant
Really insightful thread
And ryano is also very inspiring in the way he throws his stuff…
All the above posts could basically be an almost full guide about developing the pua game.
The only missing bit is the one inside us all, this ballsy little move we have to do everytime we see an interesting girl.
And of course this can be 100 times harder than it reads.
To me it’s very important if you have some friend or relative that you have seen first hand do it the same way you could do it. And also if this guy is not that much better looking than you.
Another way is to check from previous life experience what interesting girls like you for some reason a lot, eg asian girls, girls studying something you study too etc and play the game with them and get that confidence boost.
It’s an exhausting game afterall. Let’s admit it.October 2, 2014 at 3:19 pm #71711
Thanks for setting me straight on the last forum posting above (#71705) , you’re right Lee, my journey does resemble more closely what you just described.
THe quote from TOm Torero was more a response to Ryano , who seemed to have experienced something similar to what Tom was describing in the evolution of his game.
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