October 13, 2014 at 6:00 pm #71849
zhelyazo, you’re not understand something very basic here. Me and Lee are essentially advocating the same thing. The verbal doesn’t matter at all. Direct vs Indirect is not what you say. It’s your intent that matters. And your intent should ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS be direct. And if your intent starts off indirect, you better transition to a direct intent sooner than later.
“What are you reading?”
“Hey I thought you looked nice”
“Looks like you’re thinking deep thoughts”
should all be said with the same non-verbals. You should essentially be hitting on her.
What Lee said in his post is that when you say “hey, what are you reading?” you think the girl doesn’t know you’re hitting on her? Of’course she knows. But with your non-verbals, don’t act like you’re not hitting on her. Ie don’t say it in a serious way.
If you’re not flirting with her, you’re toast.
And when Lee says “You’re thinking deep thoughts are you” he’s already shown his intent. Because he’s speaking to her on a personal level. Ie, he’s flirting with her.October 13, 2014 at 6:04 pm #71850
Let’s take an example.
1. “Hey, what are you reading?” – said with a smirk.
2. “Hey, what are you reading?” – said with a serious face, like you really care.
#1 is more powerful than #2 because she knows you’re interested in her. That’s all intent means.October 13, 2014 at 6:06 pm #71851The_HurricaneKeymaster
There’s more to Deep Thoughts than meets the eye. The first thing to understand is that it is pretty direct. She knows why you’re there right away. It’s to flirt with her. There is no other reason for a man, a stranger, to tell an attractive woman she looks like she’s thinking deep thoughts. The chances that she will think that you are simply making an observation is close to zero. The reason that I like deep thoughts is that it plausibly allows me to start reversing the power dynamic very, very quickly. Here is how it breaks down:
Me: “You look like you’re thinking deep, deep thoughts.”
Her: “Me? No, just tired. Going home from work.”
Me: “So you have no story for me?” (First hurdle. In other words, “You have nothing interesting to tell me?” Already starting to set up the reversal of the power dynamic.)
Her: “Nope. No story.” (And sometimes:) “You have a story for me?”
Me: “Well, I did read an article that said that we spend on average 14% of our lives thinking about things we’re not going to do.”
Her: “Makes sense. Probably more for me.”
Me: “Oh yeah? You’re a dreamer. When I read that article, I said to myself, what would I do if I could have that time back, and I decided I would make a list of the hundred greatest novels and make my way through the ones I haven’t read.” (Pause) “What about you? What would you do?” (Second hurdle. She hasn’t thought about this. Her answer is likely to be less interesting than mine.)
Her: “Hmmm. Don’t know. Would have to think about it.”
Me: “Yeah, you think about it. Take all the time in the world. Meanwhile, what do you do now? Do you sing, do you dance, do you read, do you write?”
Her: “I’m in marketing.”
Me: “Marketing. You said that like it’s not something you’re thrilled about.”
So the true power of Deep Thoughts is not that it hides your intentions. The true power of Deep Thoughts is that it get across this sense that you’re curious but you’re not completely sold. She knows right away that you’re there to flirt with her. What she’s not sure of is whether you think she’s otherwise worthy of your attention. It’s an opener full of skepticism and challenges, and women find that kind of interaction very attractive. I like it because I think it takes about three minutes for her to make a judgement about you, whereas telling her she’s cute basically gets an immediate judgement, a judgement based entirely on your looks and body language.
–LeeOctober 13, 2014 at 6:31 pm #71853
@ryano – Yes, you make a good point. Intent is certainly something to look out for. I understand what you wanted to get across now.
@The_Hurricane It is funny how one is prone to misinterpret things. I always assumed that the Deep Thoughts opener was indirect. Thank you for spelling it out for me. I think I just need to stop being a chicken (applying for a position at KFC apparently) and accept that I do not need a reason to approach girls other than their looks.
I will use the Deep Thoughts exchange in the library and see how it goes. It certainly feels more genuine than going situational (looking for the “perfect” thing to say). And I need to learn to stop trying to control everything and just let go (so difficult, even though I have been rejected hundreds of times). I think it will be a useful exercise to try to approach most/ all women with the same lines.
I wholeheartedly thank you guys for helping out.
ZhelyazkoOctober 13, 2014 at 6:36 pm #71854
yes, “deep thoughts” is direct all the way. but I would kindly urge you to say anything you want as I think improvising is a very important. Deep thoughts works for Lee. But what do *YOU* think is the most important thing to say in the library to a girl?
You see, your comfort level, and HOW you say something is what the girl is looking for. Not the actual content. Just make sure you’re flirting with her – with whatever you choose to say.October 13, 2014 at 7:02 pm #71855
Thanks ryano. I do like not having to think about what to say though. Routines are one of the major advantages the pick up community gives men who are not good with women. Like training wheels on a bicycle (but cooler). I want to take advantage of that and improve my chances while I am still getting comfortable with the whole thing.October 13, 2014 at 9:50 pm #71862The_HurricaneKeymaster
If you’ve been following these debates, you know that ryano and I disagree on the subject of how spontaneous you should be. Within the boundaries of what is legal, there is nothing you should be afraid to do or talk about. What I find is that if you talk about what matters to you – your interests, the people you love, the places you’ve been, etc., etc. – you will eventually start saying almost the same thing every time. Those things don’t change very often. Women can feel when you’re asking them about something important to you. You speak with a different authority and your voice conveys that the answer you’re looking for is important to you. The most desirable women love the idea of serendipity. They love the idea that you just happen to be compatible with them but not with every other skirt in a five mile radius. That is why those challenging questions are not just useful to you. They are actually something that women find very attractive about the most desirable men. They know that the most desirable men are choosy and not easily impressed. So my advice is not to be spontaneous, but to figure out what is important to you, and incorporate that into your conversations with women. I have a template that I teach. The template is generic, but the parts men plug in to that template are things that really matter to them. In my experience, that’s how men can significantly increase the success of their game.
–LeeOctober 13, 2014 at 10:20 pm #71866
Thank you, Lee. Very insightful stuff. I have noticed what you are describing happening with me to an extend. I will work to incorporate your advice into what I do.
Since you are an avid reader can you recommend a good book to read. I usually enjoy fantasy/sci-fi/dystopia genre or self-improvement books, but if something made a particularly good impression on you recently I’m open minded.
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