Date/lay ratio, daygame

[Alex. A]

Hello! My namу is Alex, I’m from Russia, and I practice daygame. I read your website, and I think your content is very interesting. For me it’s laconic and high quality posts. Thank you!

I’ve got the one question about rates in daygame, may be you would be able to answer. I would be glad to know your opinion.

Sorry for my not so good english, I will try to write properly enough.

1–2 years ago I started to read content about daygame in English and I found out, that it is different for the better from Russian very much.

In Russian laguage materials I read about very high rates and stats in daygame, that is not realistic as I can see now.

My rate cold approach/date is about 5–7%, which is near normal for ordinary guys, as I know.

But I’ve got big question about dates/lays ratio. In my experience I started to _date_ with girl first of all, and only after that we have (may have) sex. I mean, that we can date 3–6 times before sex. It’s absolutely normal for me, I need time to know her personality, and to feel comfort with her, so it’s not problem at all.

But my date/lay ratio is, actually, may be, about 5–7%. I read stats other daygamers and I saw rates about 30–40% date/lay, often at first date, that is extremely high, very high for me.

Than I tried to find ratio “date 1 → date 2 → date 3” other daygamers, and I found just some few stats.

This stats: screencast.com/t/m4KRDWlUyC
I found here: 10approaches.wordpress.com/2018/10/10/daygame-statistics/

And this stas:
screencast.com/t/9lyMcnqAuGD
from sevendaygame.wordpress.com/2016/11/22/kiev-trip-report-oct-5-to-nov-15-42-days/

and screencast.com/t/Ax5y0ANmb
from sevendaygame.wordpress.com/2016/11/22/kiev-trip-report-oct-5-to-nov-15-42-days/

So, I don’t know, how representative these stats are – but date 1/2/3 ratio is more nearly to my.

===

Is it true, 30–40% date/lay? Date/lay ratio is often higher than date 1 / 2 ratio? So it’s just one time sex usually? Could it be because of different cultures (Western / Eastern Europe / USA) or types of girls to which we approach?

I can’t realise so much defference in this results now.

Also I didn’t have any case when I had only one sex with girl. I mean every sex was repeated and we continue our dating.

[Eric Disco]

Hi Alex,

While it’s understandable to compare your statistics to other people’s statistics to see if you are doing well, there are also *sooo* many variables that it is almost impossible to compare. How good is their game? How good is your game? How physically attractive are you? How high is your status? How physically attractive are the women you’re approaching? How old are they? How old are you? Are you approaching them on the street vs bars vs coffee shops, etc.? What type of city do you live in? What is the culture of that city? Given all these variables, it’s really impossible to compare your ratios with someone else’s. But if you feel like you are having problems getting first dates, then let’s talk about what could be standing in the way of getting first dates.

For example, here are some better questions to answer:

How sexual do you get with these women? How quickly do you get sexual? How much do you connect with them? How much do you know about them when you leave? How much do they know about you? Do you leave them wanting more at the end? Do you qualify them?

Eric

[Alex. A]

Eric, thank you for reply!

I live in Moscow, I’m 27 and girls are about 25–32.

I will try to comment on perspective of my situation with dates and to answer at your question.

I would like to mention and to split your question in two chapters: my sexuality and our rapport with girls.

01. Sexuality.

And your questions “How sexual do you get with these women? How quickly do you get sexual?”

Here is my photo, I’m 24 here: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

My growth is 180 centimeters, but my weight is 63 kilogram (154 pounds), so I have slim build.

Also there is one point with my teeth: one tooth in the front had grew up a bit inside in the mounth, and at front of my face it looks like gap between teeth with this tooth behind gab. Well, this is rather similar: screencast.com/t/lYHpR9dsSOe

So, all this is not sexual in physical meaning.

Spending time with girls for me is more important to discuss with her interesting topics, doing something together (walk through the streets, eat in restaraunts, ride a bicycle etc.). And the next step, after we have some rapport, is sex. I mean I don’t desire girls passionately in common way. I need emotional intimacy with her more.

02. Rapport.

Here is my vision of rapport.

There are some regular points in our communication with girls, that may push girls away. For example:

Question about age. I never ask girls about their age and don’t tell them my age. Because I often was in situation when it was evaluation question (in not good meaning), like sketchy judgmental screening, especialy if she asks it at the very beginnig of communication. They see me, speak with me, I think it’s enough. I decided don’t tell about it at all. Rather often girls says to me that it’s strange.

I don’t use social media. I don’t have page Facebook, Instagram. Girls often says me that it’s also strange, and how it’s possible in 21 century, how you are in touch with friends and so one… And it’s very hard for me to find a common language with students, for example.

I call girls by phone, I use text messages very rarely. I don’t like writinng messages and this type of communication at all. I always try to talk using my voice, not text. Girls also says me regular that it’s strange, “all my friends write me, doesn’t call, it’s so rarely now” and so one. Even at Youtube among daygamers video I found only one or just several videos about phone game, rest of all are about texting.

I can continue this list, and the common idea is that from my point of view, all similar point often pushes girls away (not all girls, but many in my opinion). And it doesn’t help me to sleep with them, and also I don’t want to change these my habits and convictions.

And your questions:

> How much do you connect with them? How much do you know about them when you leave? How much do they know about you? Do you leave them wanting more at the end? Do you qualify them?

I think it’s variate. Sometimes we speak more about me, sometimes about her (depend of girl and topics at date), we have small talks and serious talks too. Sometimes I don’t tell much about myself becase of “strange” points above. For example else I have not good realtionships with my parents and I try to evade direct answer about parents.

If you need any clarify here, please, tell me, I will do it. Maybe I answered in very common way and you need details.

===

In the same time, despite all the facts above:

I got WhatsApp message after first date recently: ” Thanks for meeting. I had a great time”.

They sleep with me. Sometimes. )

One girl offered to pay for us at the cafe at our first date (I think it’s super uncommon for Russia), than we kissed going-away, at second date at the end she says, that we can go together in her house, if I want it.

I can continue this list too, but positive reactions are so rare (maybe it’s the ones 5–7% of all first dates which I talked in the first post about).

===

And my general questions is: what do you think about points above? Can they (my slim body, not very good compatibility with some girls and so one) leads to 5–7% date/lay ratio?

I want to know more about this topic because knowledge realistics expectation soothing me actually, and it can be very actual when I will work towards my next lay, kiss o emotional itimacy from stack of first dates.

• This reply was modified 2 years, 10 months ago by Alex. A.
• This reply was modified 2 years, 10 months ago by Eric Disco.

[Eric Disco]

I deleted the link to your photo. I recommend you do not share your photo online when talking about game.

> And the next step, after we have some rapport, is sex.

I recommend that before you get into rapport with her, you have some sexual banter or mention of sex. It doesn’t have to be super sexual talk, and it’s fine if it is only one line somewhere, but very early on in the conversation, you need to show her that this is not *friendship.* What will happen is that you will lose some women. Some percentage of women will not continue the conversation. This is what you want. You want to weed out the women who are not attracted to you or already know there is no way they will ever be with you, like a married woman, etc. If not, you will be investing time with these women and they will continue to talk with you but there won’t be any attraction. They may even give you their phone number after talking with you for some time. But they will flake because they were never attracted to you in the first place.

> I never ask girls about their age and don’t tell them my age.

Agreed. This is correct.

> I don’t use social media. I don’t have page Facebook, Instagram.

This is fine. I never exchange social media with women I meet or even am seriously dating.

> I call girls by phone, I use text messages very rarely.

This is another area where you may be losing some women. Some women just won’t be comfortable talking on the phone. I would recommend that you learn some minimal text messaging. You can set up a date in 3-5 text messages.

> I think it’s variate. Sometimes we speak more about me, sometimes about her (depend of girl and topics at date), we have small talks and serious talks too.

It sounds like you don’t even follow a script or a structure. If she walks away not knowing anything about you, she will flake. If she walks away without you knowing anything about her, she will flake. There are certain bases that need to be covered for this to work.

> And my general questions is: what do you think about points above? Can they (my slim body, not very good compatibility with some girls and so one) leads to 5–7% date/lay ratio?

Could be. I haven’t seen your game. I haven’t seen the quality of women you approach. I can’t see your body language. I can’t see how comfortable you are around strangers. Like I said, there are a lot of variables, so 5-7% is possible. If those are the numbers you’re getting, I believe you. Not sure what the question is.

Eric

[Alex. A]

> I recommend that before you get into rapport with her, you have some sexual banter or mention of sex. It doesn’t have to be super sexual talk, and it’s fine if it is only one line somewhere, but very early on in the conversation, you need to show her that this is not *friendship.*

Okay, I will try.

And do you recommend it in order only to weed out women without any sexual hints about me? I mean, does it also help to build proper frame of our dates or is it sieve first of all?

> This is another area where you may be losing some women. Some women just won’t be comfortable talking on the phone. I would recommend that you learn some minimal text messaging. You can set up a date in 3-5 text messages.

I use messages too, but my general game plan here now is following:

1. Voice WhatsApp/Telegram message next day after acquaintance, I tell her something like: “Hi! It’s Alex, I was glad to meet you yesterday, it was pleasant for me to speak with you and I would be interested to talk with you more. So, will be in touch!”

2. Phone call next day. And during this call I want to know about her something else and to tell about me (if it was very fast acquaintance, may be just numbers exchange) and than invite her out. If we talked during acquaintance 5–10 minutes, than I will invite her out faster during phone call.

If she doesn’t speak with me on phone, but answer in messager, than I can invite her by text/voice messages.

> It sounds like you don’t even follow a script or a structure. If she walks away not knowing anything about you, she will flake. If she walks away without you knowing anything about her, she will flake. There are certain bases that need to be covered for this to work.

Yes, you are right, that it’s total improvisation on a date. We speak about jobs, our interests, eat together in a cafe, tell stories etc. Can you recommend any material to study for me?

> Not sure what the question is.

The question was first of all, is my date/lay ratio acceptable, or I do something super wrong (I read at this forum topic where one man said he did 340 approaches and no one date, as I remember. And he did something really wrong).

I understand your answer, that there are a lot of factors and I can have this ratio as because of my game, looks, how hot girls are and my value, our ages, status, sexuality and so one. And we can know more about it in personal meeting only.

===

And also how could I thank you for answer and help? I would be glad to support your project, may be give some doantion (for gratitude from me, first of all). You content have been helping me, and your articles was the first in Eglish I read (it was about daygame success rate), and it gave me clarity and answer to my questions.

[Eric Disco]

> And do you recommend getting sexual in order only to weed out women without any sexual hints about me? I mean, does it also help to build proper frame of our dates or is it sieve first of all?

Yes. It does a lot more than just weed women out. It builds attraction by showing that you are confident, sexual, and not afraid to talk about sex. It also shows that women are often attracted to you quickly.

> “Hi! It’s Alex, I was glad to meet you yesterday, it was pleasant for me to speak with you and I would be interested to talk with you more. So, will be in touch!”

You come across too much as a nice guy in this type of text. Try this instead. When you meet her and get her number, say you will text her right there so she has your number. Then say, ‘Hi This is Alex.’ That’s it. Now she knows who it is. This takes away from the low status text of having to say, “Hi It’s Alex” later on. Then the next day, send her a much more chill message like, “You never know who you’re going to meet at Starbucks” or where ever you met her. You could even do something more playful like, “You’ll never guess what happened to me at Starbucks yesterday.” When she asks what, say “I met a girl who xxxxx” and describe something about her.

> Phone call next day. And during this call I want to know about her something else and to tell about me (if it was very fast acquaintance, may be just numbers exchange) and than invite her out. If we talked during acquaintance 5–10 minutes, than I will invite her out faster during phone call.

This is okay. But I try to avoid calling a girl out of the blue. I’ll wait till she responds to a text message and say something like, “I’m gonna call you real quick for a minute, my thumbs are tired from texting all day.” I see how she responds. If she responds positive, then I call. If she says that she prefers to text, then I keep it over text. But I may send 2 or 3 more text messages and then set up a date.

> Yes, you are right, that it’s total improvisation on a date. We speak about jobs, our interests, eat together in a cafe, tell stories etc. Can you recommend any material to study for me?

I was talking about the approach. You should have some kind of structure. I have a structure listed in my book. Basically, it goes something like this:

Opener
Banter or quick story or something about yourself or interesting conversation topic; i.e. something besides personal questions about her
Transition into personal conversation
Find something about her you can appreciate
Close

> The question was first of all, is my date/lay ratio acceptable, or I do something super wrong

If you’re getting *some* dates then you probably aren’t doing something super wrong. If your numbers are lower than expected then you probably need to switch some things around, tighten up your game, throw in some different elements. Most of them I covered above.

> And also how could I thank you for answer and help?

You could buy a copy of my book. Available on Amazon and Audible.

Eric

[Alex. A]

> You come across too much as a nice guy in this type of text. Try this instead. When you meet her and get her number, say you will text her right there so she has your number. Then say, ‘Hi This is Alex.’ That’s it. Now she knows who it is. This takes away from the low status text of having to say, “Hi It’s Alex” later on. Then the next day, send her a much more chill message like, “You never know who you’re going to meet at Starbucks” or where ever you met her. You could even do something more playful like, “You’ll never guess what happened to me at Starbucks yesterday.” When she asks what, say “I met a girl who xxxxx” and describe something about her.

I will think about it but I feel this examples non-congruence for me now. But may be I actually should change it and try other styles.

> But I try to avoid calling a girl out of the blue.

And I like to speak with them and have live communication (phone, dates) as mush as possible instead text. I noticed I’m outvoted with loving this way of communication.

I’m going to be very distracted when I’m texting sometimes and I always try to group my communications into clusters, and I check my phone rarely in order to focus on my work or other deals totally. For me it’s better to call girl twice a week and to have more saturated talks and dates instead teasing her by messages and split one conversation into a lot of short dialogues.

But may be it’s too “business-like”, too serious and booring for girls, and little attention for her…

> I was talking about the approach. You should have some kind of structure.

Hmm, I have some my own structure, if we speak about approach. But I don’t have any structure of a date. Should I have some fulcrum about date? If yes, what can it be?

> If you’re getting *some* dates then you probably aren’t doing something super wrong.

I get very few lays and second-third dates. With first dates everything is passably.

• This reply was modified 2 years, 10 months ago by Alex. A.
• This reply was modified 2 years, 10 months ago by Alex. A.

[Alex. A]

> You could buy a copy of my book. Available on Amazon and Audible.

I’ve got it, thank you!

[Author]

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