Being more flirty
December 22, 2013 at 12:50 am #71091
What are some concrete ways to make sure I’m more flirty and the girl definitely knows I want to have sex with her?
I keep getting into this zone where I have friendly conversation with her. The past few months I have just gone direct and told her she was cute while also engaging in physical contact. I thought this would automatically let the girl know what’s up but I still get girls who tell me they are confused and think I want to be friends with them.
I guess I’m just bad at flirting when I initially meet a girl.
TayDecember 22, 2013 at 7:46 pm #71093
Usually if you’re opening direct AND touching her AND specifically asking to meet up for a drink/ hang out again, she will get the message.
What about your physical escalation on the date? That’s really an important factor. I’ve gone out with girls, didn’t really touch them very much, and there was just a very nonsexual energy as a result. Getting physical is way more important than flirting even.
But for flirting/ being playful specifically, Eric has some really good articles on that. Usually just one or two per conversation is good enough, no need to overdo it. It’s all about spontaneity and creativity; having a playful attitude; being willing to challenge or tease her in a fun way; not worrying about impressing her, rather just being in your own world and being self-amused.December 23, 2013 at 3:00 am #71094
Maybe I’ve just had weird luck lately. But either way I am definitely getting into too pleasant of conversations and I need to do what you said and at least flirt once or twice per conversation.
For being physical during the approach I like to cover the following: shake her hand when we meet, high five, touch her on the shoulder, then hug her. I can tell how much she is into me by how hard she hugs me. In terms of dates well not much of a sample size there in recent history. I had a really bad first date a couple weeks ago. I hugged her and touched her on the leg but she seemed like she wanted to get out of the bar ASAP. The other first date I had we had sex and I ended up dating her for a few months so definitely did well there.
Thanks PlayboyDecember 23, 2013 at 5:28 am #71095
You probably just need more approaches to get more data points, like you said. Your physical escalation sounds good for day game. If you’re meeting girls in bars/ night game, you can usually do even more.
I would say, experiment with fun, crazy shit in the conversations and see what works for you/ your personality. Take some risks to break out of that safe place you’ve put yourself in where you’re able to have normal, polite conversations with girls consistently (which admittedly is a very addictive place to be).
Good luck man.January 2, 2014 at 9:52 pm #71100
In my opinion, most guys misunderstand the purpose of flirting. Just because you are attracted to her doesn’t mean that she is more likely to be attracted to you. In fact, the opposite is true. The more she’s sure that you are attracted to her, the less likely she is to be attracted to you, especially if she has not earned your interest with anything other than her looks. So to me, the whole purpose of flirting is kind of counter-intuitive. It’s not to convince her that you are interested in her physically. If she’s cute and you’ve been spending time with her and you’re not gay, she knows you’re interested in her physically. Women are very good at detecting all of the little signs you are constantly giving off, most of it in the form of body language. So what’s the purpose of flirting? The purpose of flirting is to convince her that you don’t fear losing her. The most flagrant flirts are always crossing the line of propriety and improbably getting away with it. Why? Because, it takes confidence to flirt and confidence signals that you’ve been successful in the past and the idea of losing her doesn’t scare you. Those two qualities make men more attractive to women. So, yeah, you should flirt more, but it’s not because these girls don’t know that you want them. It’s because they are not yet sufficiently attracted to you.
–LeeJanuary 3, 2014 at 2:50 am #71101
Is flirting mostly improvised or do you have a few lines that you like to go to, especially early on in the interaction? It seems like it would be better for me to have something scripted so I can say something flirty right away. I exclusively do day game and I feel like most interactions last two statements and then she’s gone.
TayJanuary 5, 2014 at 12:32 am #71102
I find that men who improvise are typically much less flirty than men who think ahead of time about what they’re going to say. Just because something is practiced doesn’t mean that it’s fake. All of the people I know who are good with strangers – public speakers, presenters, managers, sales people, and, yes, pickup artists – figure out what works for them and keep using the same stories over and over again, modifying only the parts of the conversation that serve as connective tissue. It’s hard to tell you in a few words what you should say during an approach because that is a very personal thing. When I coach, I typically spend a few hours tailoring an opener to a particular student and that requires a lot of back and forth. If you want an example, look up the “Deep Thoughts” opener on this site. When your deep thoughts story is as tight as my deep thoughts story, a much smaller fraction of women will wander away during your approach. You can’t get flirty until your openers start to stick. By definition, being flirty is saying something slightly inappropriate and if you’re losing them after a few lines, you are not yet getting them to the point where they are ready for you to be a little inappropriate. So that’s where I would focus for now, your opener.
–LeeJanuary 8, 2014 at 1:17 am #71110
Let me get more specific if I may. I live in California and there is this main street by the beach that is riddled with hot girls walking around. I basically chase them down and say this: “This is really random but I saw you back there and you are really cute and I had to stop you and say hi.”
I think this situation calls for being direct and there are a variety of reasons I don’t want to change my venue. Lee I know you think
indirect is the way to go but I’m 28 and I think I still have some mileage on this opener. I’m open to suggestions on the opener and how I can improve it but I’m thinking the basic premise of it won’t change. I’ve heard the “fucking delicious” opener and I guess I feel like it weeds out a lot of girls who I would want to talk to.
I’m sure there’s a lot I could tinker with in terms of body language and delivery of my opener but let’s say that I deliver the opener and then shake her hand and introduce myself. At this point if I have her attention what route should I take?
TayJanuary 8, 2014 at 3:02 am #71111
Sorry, dude, I don’t teach direct game and if you’re set on sticking with it, there are much better coaches to ask about what to do next. The reason I don’t teach direct game is that it leaves you no closer to the objective, which is starting a conversation. Telling her she’s cute does not start a conversation. In that sense, it’s not an opener at all. It’s a compliment.
To me, an opener is something open ended, something that gives her runway to tell you something to which you can respond by telling her something. If you’re a cute kid, just telling her she’s cute may be enough, but that’s not because it’s game. It’s because she’s already attracted to you and any excuse to chat is good enough. For the rest of us – for ordinary men – telling her she’s cute buys you very little and you then have to start from scratch to generate some attraction.
There is another issue here and that is the issue of interest. The pickup community is split on whether she should be sure of your interest or she should have doubts about your interest. Myself and coaches like Mystery firmly believe that she should have doubts about your interest, which is very tough to do after you’ve opened direct.
In a more general sense, there are really four main topics that are fertile ground for conversation when you meet someone: 1) What you do or what you’re passionate about 2) Where you came from and how you got here 3) Parents and childhood 4) Relationships and sex. If both of you have talked a bit about each, you’re done. You can go home.
So whatever you do after your opener, it is meant to get you back to topic 1. My opener gets me to topic 1 directly. Meaning, my opener ends with us talking about topic 1. Because you’re opening direct, there is no obvious way back to topic 1, but that is where you will have to take it using your situational banter. In other words, you will have to wing it until you get back to topic 1.
When you’re back at topic 1 – whatever topic you want to hit first – you are firmly in control. You have your stories. Those stories include negs and qualifications that tease and challenge her and those stories are liberally sprinkled with inappropriate references to intimacy and sex.
I don’t know you, so I can’t tell you what your story should be. That would take a couple of hours of creative brainstorming. But what I described above is a loose outline for systematizing your approach and making your conversations less ordinary.
–LeeJanuary 8, 2014 at 6:36 am #71112
Lee is right in that a direct opener is not a real conversation starter. It’s really just a way to (a) get her attention and make clear “I’m talking to you now”, and (b) to make it clear that you’re sexually interested (and this is important if you have trouble generating sexual energy otherwise–HOWEVER, just using a direct opener only for the sake of conveying sexuality is a crutch that you must ultimately get rid of), and (c) it shows confidence and balls.
Whether direct or indirect, I’m for whatever works for the individual (and I think Lee and I have debated this in the past, and the overall importance of words vs. action in general). Success depends on a lot of factors–your personality, your looks, fashion, conversation skills, willingness to play the numbers game, etc.
Let me ask you this Tay. You’ve gotten over the approach anxiety, but the issue is basically starting a conversation, right? Question: How often do you talk to strangers in general in your daily life? I’ve found that guys who have trouble having conversations with strange women usually have trouble having conversations with strangers, period.
Otherwise, I suggest observe everything around you and especially the girl–compliment her on something she’s wearing, ask what’s happening in her day (does she look like she’s in a rush? strolling leisurely? going to work? going to the beach?), share what’s happening in your day/ your life, what’s on your mind, some interesting story, an observation or remark on something that’s happening in the environment, etc. Mix questions and statements–not too much of either.
Lee’s topics are good to come up with some material to have in your back pocket in case you go blank.
But I am an advocate of spontaneity and being in the moment, while having an overall structure for leading things forward–I think that should be your eventual goal.
Check out the daygame.com infield videos on Youtube because they do direct game street stops exactly like what you’re doing, and they have some pretty good material on transitioning and conversation. (pay attention to their body language and nonverbals too infield because that’s very important)January 12, 2014 at 2:39 am #71115
After thinking about it I basically have very little game. I open direct and have to hope one of the following things happens:
1) She finds me physically attractive
2) I get lucky and somehow say the right thing
3) She’s desperate/new to town/on vacation
Is it basically agreed upon that street approaching requires a direct approach? I agree going direct definitely doesn’t lead directly into conversation, seeing as I don’t know what to say next, but it is easier to have a conversation with a girl who is stopped then one who is walking.
Lee you say I have to do situational banter to get to where your opener gets but is it a good idea to have a scripted transition that does what your opener does? Just winging it has never worked for me and doesn’t allow easy improvement.
If I’m going to get to topic 1 after going direct could I just do something as simple as just asking her how her day is going and then whether she asks me or not, say: “I’m beat up from work. I’m a mechanical engineer and I am working on this 3d printing project…” Then elaborate on why 3d printing is cool and why I like it. I tend to think the stuff I do is interesting to people but I also am afraid of sounding like a nerd sometimes.
Playboy I think I definitely use my approach to convey sexuality. I generally fall into the friend zone easily and I want to get out of that.
To answer your question my issue is having good conversation that builds attraction. I can have boring conversation that ends with the girl saying she has a boyfriend or whatever. I think I can be somewhat robotic with my conversations.
In terms of having conversation with strangers, I’m not that bad at it but I don’t do it very often other than through approaching. If I get into a conversation about the weather or if some place is busy today I feel like shooting myself. Honestly I don’t have very many friends either so I don’t really even have much conversation in general.
When I am situational and I comment about something she is wearing, what she is doing, etc. I don’t know where to take it.
TayJanuary 12, 2014 at 5:41 pm #71116
This thread touches on many different topics so I will address them in individual posts. First, do street approaches require direct? If you run after women who are quickly moving away from you and they see you coming, you have to go direct because there is no other excuse for stopping them. However, those tend to be the toughest sets. They are on their way somewhere. The clock is ticking. If you have other options, why would you choose to go after these women? New York is a very busy city, but there are still plenty of women sitting on park benches, waiting on the street outside a store or restaurant, sitting in Starbuck’s and other coffee shops, browsing in book stores, standing on subway platforms, sitting in the Whole Foods cafeteria, etc. Those are much easier sets and they do not require a direct approach. If I had to stop women walking away from me, would I use a direct approach? No. I would do what Mystery does in the first season of VH1’s show, The Pickup Artist. He walks in the same direction as his target, passes his target, then slows down to let his target catch up. He then looks over and delivers his line, which is indirect. She’s the one who caught up to him. He’s just whimsically saying what happens to be on his mind. If I’m walking slightly ahead of a girl, look over at her to get her attention, I can then say, “You look like you’re thinking deep, deep thoughts.” Or whatever other indirect opener I want to use. The conversation continues for a couple of blocks, at which point, I say, “I actually have to go that way to meet a friend, but I’ll walk with you for a couple of minutes.” This part is necessary for two reasons: 1) It sets a false time constraint on the interaction, which makes her more comfortable, and 2) it allows me to turn with her if she makes a turn off the street that we’re both on. So the short answer is no, you don’t have to go direct to talk to do street approaches.
–LeeJanuary 12, 2014 at 11:36 pm #71118
Eric has some great articles on getting more sexual in the conversation and moving away from the boring topics/ vibe. You can also check out the guys of Daygame.com and Justin Wayne on Youtube to see how they turn up the heat in their daytime approaches. There are lots of different styles that can work. A lot of it comes down to your nonverbals (strong body language/ physical presence, getting close enough to her, lowering your voice, eye contact, etc). Even a tame/ “boring” verbal conversation can have sexual energy with the right nonverbals.
The benefit of talking to people everywhere is that it keeps you warmed up and gives you great momentum going into an approach. It’s all about practice and experience, just like anything else. When you see the hot girl, instead of needing to start from scratch with that conversational energy, you already have it, so it becomes effortless. So conversation in general (with friends, strangers, cashiers, sales clerks, etc) is definitely something for you to think about.
Basic conversation skills come first, and then spicy/ sexual conversation is added on top of that.
Also a little light touching can go a long way, even with otherwise simple conversation. Checkout this approach experiment I wrote about on my blog:
Some general principles I will throw out there: outcome independence, self amusement, saying whatever pops into your head, being present to the moment, being willing to take a risk and say something crazy, speaking off the cuff without thinking, and being willing to fail or say the wrong thing from time to time. It’s all about loosening up and having fun. You have to be willing to try, fail, learn, and improve for the next time. Hope that helps.January 17, 2014 at 11:14 pm #71127
Here are the problems I see with the advice to be more natural, more present, and more flirty. It’s a bit like telling people to be more confident. You can’t will yourself to be more confident. Confidence comes from experiencing success. So the best way to get more confident is to experience some success, success based on competence, not confidence. You can increase your competence without increasing your confidence simply by practicing a routine that you can perfect. In my experience, the same is true of being more natural, flirty, and present. None of these things are possible unless you know exactly what you’re going to say. Paradoxically, when you’ve stopped worrying about what you’re going to say, your mind stops racing at 100 miles per hour and you stop drifting away to thoughts of what you should do and how important this all is. That’s when you can be more present, more natural, and more flirty.
–LeeJanuary 19, 2014 at 3:52 am #71128
Lee, do you think it’s smart to have a scripted transition/banter which acts like your opener does? Meaning it gets me from direct approach to topic 1.
I am confident in my ability to have boring conversations but my confidence isn’t increasing any because I’ve been doing the same thing for like 6 months now and my success beyond boring conversations has been very limited. So I would like to script something or have a routine which leads to less boring conversation. I think it is best for me to do this piecemeal instead of having this long script all memorized.
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