Approval Seeking and Desperation

[TayBurnz50]

My biggest sticking point with my interactions that has plagued me for years is approval seeking and being desperate. It’s something that creates so many holes in my game that if I manage to identify a hole and plug it up a new one will just open up. I just haven’t been able to fake it consistently. Even if I do somehow miraculously fake it, it will definitely show out on dates.

I was listening to a recording of myself in an interaction I had with this German girl and you could hear the approval seeking in my voice; it was gross. This girl actually responded well to me and she gave me her number but I still haven’t heard back from her so it’s not likely I will get her out on a date. I listened to a recording of myself interacting with a girl that ended up being my girlfriend and it was even worse than this!

I have all but come to the conclusion that I can’t fake not being needy. I have to actually not be desperate and needy. But this leads to a paradox of how do I not be needy if I can’t get girls because I’m needy. I think my desperation also gives me a ton of motivation to go out and approach.

I don’t think I can just logically convince myself to not be needy. I’ve heard the advice of just not to care, but this doesn’t work for me. I’ve also heard the advice of just going out and grinding out some dates and eventually you won’t be needy anymore but I have been grinding it out for a while now and I haven’t become any less needy. I get dates but not enough to where I am confident I could find a date given a few weeks of hard approaching.

Anyway, I’m sure there’s not a quick solution to this issue. It’s something I’m going to have to work really hard on to change my attitude, beliefs, etc. What do you guys think?

Tay

[MrAntiquity]

@TayB–

you date quite a bit, don’t you? And one of these “neediness” episodes ended up being your girlfriend 🙂 Are you sure you’re as needy or desperate as you think you are?

I mean you’re right–you cannot logically convince yourself to not be needy, or lonely, or desperate, or hungry, or anything. Trying to do that will mess up your entire head. If you are, you are. The only solution is to ACTUALLY become a different way (evolve, as it were), and that takes time.

I’ll say this though–if you’re feeling needy after getting some of these girlfriends/dates, etc., then the neediness probably has nothing to do with women, and it might be worth trying to figure out where it’s coming from. Maybe with a bit of help.

[Eric Disco]

> you could hear the approval seeking in my voice

Can you be more specific about how you identified what you heard as approval-seeking?

Eric

[TayBurnz50]

@mrantiquity
I gave the example of my former girlfriend as an illustration that even in an approach that was “good” I still sounded bad. I don’t know exactly why she responded well to me but it might be that she is from Europe and didn’t know many people here (California).

I don’t really date too much. Definitely much more than before I found this website years ago. But it’s rare I make it beyond the first date or so. I think it’s just a matter of time before girls figure out that I am “low value” in terms of social status. I do think I am needy as I am pretty lonely and really want a girlfriend.

@eric
I don’t know exactly how to describe my voice. It’s like a subtle phoniness that I hate. I don’t feel like I’m talking the way I would with friends. Perhaps I’m being too critical of myself. But it’s just one symptom of a larger problem.

Thanks
Tay

[Eric Disco]

Some typical signs of approval-seeking:

– A lot of questions
– Answering positively to everything she says
– Giving approval for stupid things. “You’re from Maine? That’s awesome!”
– Saying a lot of approval-seeking words like ‘Wow!’ ‘Cool!’ ‘That’s awesome!’
– Complimenting
– Smiling too much
– Asking her opinion before presenting yours. i.e. instead of, “I hated that move,” you ask her what she thought of the movie.
– Agreeing with her too much

Once you are aware of some of this stuff you can begin to eliminate it.

For example, never say, “Wow!” or “Cool!” Get used to nodding your head and saying, “Hmmm…” or “Interesting” When she does do something that deserves approval, like showing you some of her personal work or telling you that she got a Phd, then you give her full approval and tell her why you like it. “That’s impressive. Not many people can even get their master’s.

You also want to truly qualify and challenge her. Have some questions prepared about things that truly interest you. Go deep. “What was the last good book you read?” When she names a book, don’t just say, “Awesome!” Ask her what she liked about it or what she came away with.

Neediness is a little different than approval-seeking. They are related and often go together but neediness is, in essence, a need to know how if she still likes you. It is doing things to check whether she still feels positively toward you. This can mean a lot of texting, asking how she feels, checking in with her too much, being too available, etc.

The solution to this is to come up with a texting/contact scheme that works and stick with it. Experiment with what works. Pay especially close attention to how you act those times when you feel non-needy. Write that down and use the same thing with other women. That is essentially what game is about, learning what works with women.

Eric

[TayBurnz50]

Thanks for the detailed response Eric. I still do a lot of those things despite being aware of them. It’s great to have a good summary of all this stuff that I need to work on.

Tay

[MrAntiquity]

good stuff by Eric there. Also something to add is that some of these things are ok if you’re doing it on your own terms. If your natural inclination is to smile, and you say “wait–she might think I’m seeing approval so I won’t smile”, well that right THERE would be approval seeking, since you’re changing all of your habits to get her to “invest” in you.

Sometimes you can tell how you’re feeling. Did you smile because you generally felt good about something you guys were talking about, or because you felt like you were supposed to, or because you were nervous? The former is a good smile–the latter is a bad one.

Same with things like “wow” and “cool”. Yeah, don’t use them much. But if she just got back from a research trip to Antarctica, and you’re impressed, I’d say that deserves a wow. But invest in it. “Wow–that sounds like quite a project. That’s something I’ve wanted to do since I was young” or whatever.

Ultimately you want to be relaxed and not feel the need to apologize for who you are. To her, yourself or anyone.

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