After second date.

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This topic contains 43 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  The_Hurricane 3 years, 4 months ago.

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  • #72626

    ryano
    Participant

    out of curiosity, what happens to you that you feel anxiety? for the life of me I can’t even remember what it means to have anxiety anymore.

    I think it’s because I’ve established a few pretty hard-core mindsets. I see people very much differently than I did years ago. Now I just think of them as locusts/insects that pretty much always just go after their own interests: sex/money. I also for a fact know with 100% certainly that nobody really cares about my own interests. So now I just look down on people mainly because I’ve realized this. bc I’ve realized that they have self-serving opinions. So they opinions are completely irrelevant to me. Maybe that mind-set could help you, not sure. But because of this mindset there is no possible way for me to have anxiety around people.

    So if I’m in a supermarket and there’s a girl I want to chat up I just chat her up, even if there’s someone next to me, that someone doesn’t matter because of the paragraph above. And whatever impression the girl has of me it doesn’t matter either because of the paragraph above.

    Also another mindset that has helped me is my understanding that women are passive. It’s ingrained in their nature. So I know that if I don’t make a move they will NEVER make a move. therefore I can’t rely on them. ever.

    #72627

    MrAntiquity
    Participant

    the sensation is physical. like an iron bar. and when I try to imagine the bar not existing, it feels like i’m going to fall.

    it ain’t your classic “butterflies in the stomach” nervousness. More like if I allow my real identity to emerge (the identity that is free–kind of like Freud’s id) it will kill me. Like i said–it’s weird and I’m not going to solve it on a forum–you’re right about that. Once I solve it maybe I’ll submit an article to a psych journal.

    #72628

    ryano
    Participant

    So I gather you place a high value of people’s opinions of you? Because I’m pretty sure that you could approach and talk to an object, like a rock for example with no problem right?

    #72629

    SomeguyUK
    Participant

    @ryano

    Yes, I think these things do help. I don’t think advice like ‘be yourself’ helps one bit. If it was as easy as ‘just be yourself’, then forums like this wouldn’t exist in the first place.

    I’m a good looking guy, I’ve got a pretty cool life, and I’ve got good social skills. I get told that I’m funny/confident/easy to be around. But none of that helps with attracting desirable women. Going up and talking to girls the way I talk to friends does almost nothing for me. Once in a while I get lucky, but for the most part I get lukewarm reactions, and at BEST I get numbers from girls who don’t give a shit about seeing me.

    In a nutshell, going in with no plan and ‘being myself’ has never made anything special happen.

    However, I HAVE had special things happen when I’ve been able to execute ‘game’ properly. I’ve had girls initiate contact with me. I’ve had a girl drag me off to sit down with her, leaving her girlfriend standing on her own. I’ve had a girl who was a ’10’ start qualifying herself to me and making hints about seeing each other again (this happened a week ago). I’ve had a hot girl ask me for my number.

    These things haven’t happened to me that much, but they have ONLY happened when I’ve done something COMPLETELY unnatural to me. Something that would never have occurred to me to do.

    And that is the point of learning this stuff. At the end of the day it’s not just about learning some lines. It’s about opening your eyes to other ways of interacting with people. It’s about getting in touch with your masculinity.

    Yes, sometimes using ‘game’ can backfire, and sometimes you end up doing stuff that feels ridiculous because it isn’t YOU. But if game gives you a glimpse of what it looks and feels like to be the man you want to be, that can only be a good thing.

    #72632

    ryano
    Participant

    I had all your thoughts when I was new to this. I think maybe you need to go through game only to realize that it has no effect on the women you’re meeting. It’s kind of like Dumbo’s feather in that he could fly regardless.

    I think you’re right though in saying that it doesn’t help when I say “Just be yourself”. Of’course there are a few “social intelligence” type things that you need to overcome in order to get good.

    But by and large the things I needed to get “good” was:
    1. beating approach anxiety
    2. beating sexual anxiety
    3. understanding how to flirt
    4. understanding how to escalate

    Each of these took me a long time to fix. So I guess in a way maybe I can’t just say “be yourself” to someone who hasn’t had a great experience with these.

    But let me also add that these things are what made me good at having alot of sex. In my earlier years I had long term relationships without knowing any of this. So it really depends on what your end goals are. Personally now I want to go back to having an LTR so those things aren’t even so important. I think the only thing that’s important though was beating appproach anxiety, because there’s no way I can go back to online dating after seeing the quility that I’ve gotten from daygame which is lightyears ahead.

    #72633

    SomeguyUK
    Participant

    I’ve no problem with most of those things you mentioned. I do fine with flirting and escalating, I’ve even had girls say things like ‘you know exactly what to do, I can tell you’d never have a problem taking a girl home’. I’ve had girlfriends, one night stands, FWBs, blah blah blah. Most of them mediocre girls though.

    However I think most of those skills, like normal flirting, work fine when you are meeting people in a ‘passive’ dating environment, e.g meeting someone at a party who is a friend of a friend. But cold approach seems to be a different ball game all together.

    I’d say in your list, the only thing I struggle with personally is approach anxiety – hence why I’m on this website.

    But maybe you’re right Ryano, maybe it’s all bollocks and game is just a way to discover what you had all along. But in the absence of some magical pill that will make me instantly discover my own value, I can’t see any other way to get better at this than to model the behaviour of someone else who is good at it.

    #72635

    ryano
    Participant

    Wait you suffer from AA too? AA is the most important one by far. Everything pretty much relies on AA. can you explain why you have AA? are you also effected by what people “think” about you? can u give me specific circumstances that give u aa?

    #72636

    SomeguyUK
    Participant

    Yes AA is still a struggle. I have got way better with it but I still have a way to go. I have to ‘ramp up’ as Eric puts it – start with something easy and gradually get more ballsy.

    I do struggle with approaching in front of others – again I see myself gradually improving but that’s definitely my biggest hurdle. I’ve no problem giving light compliments, asking directions, asking for opinions but I get AA any time I’m explicitly trying to hit on a girl.

    As to why – that’s an interesting question. I think AA is a natural thing for guys to have, but it can also be affected by your own subconscious issues with women and self image.

    I was doing REALLY well with my AA a couple of weeks ago. I found myself not needing to ramp up – I could go straight into a really ballsy approach. But then I got rejected by a girl I really like and hey presto – my AA has come flooding back. However, it could also be that I have had to work a lot in the past couple of weeks and could not go out every day like before.

    #72638

    MrAntiquity
    Participant

    to chime in again–I DO think that game is a ticket to discovering who you were all along. I think sexuality is innate–but many of us have managed to socialize it out of ourselves for various reasons. Hence “approach anxiety”–it’s a feeling that what you’re doing isn’t acceptable for some reason. People who spend all their time getting “in state”, haven’t really gotten past it–although they may have a lot of success. That’s why a bad event can set you back–if you haven’t beaten it yet. Ultimately there are some people who have these epiphanies from going through game, say “oh–NOW I get it!!” and don’t really rely on “game” anymore.

    As I’ve mentioned a couple of times on this forum, the people who are the best with women are those who never realized they were supposed to have a problem in the first place.

    @Ryan–to answer your question about whether I can talk to a rock–well, if I imagine that it’s a real person, not always — I can conjure up the same feeling.

    #72639

    ryano
    Participant

    well AA is definitely something that you need to overcome completely. i just don’t have it anymore. i can cold approach a girl when a wake up in the morning barely awake and go to the train station at 8am and not even feel a tinge of it. here a few tips that can help you that have helped me:

    1. in order to beat it there’s no substitute repeating it again and again. i’ve probably cold approached upwards of 10k girls half of which daygame half of which nightgame. Paul Janka (who was a personal coach of mine said it best):
    when you cold approach a girl for the first time she is 1/1 of your experience, which makes her a big deal. compare that to after you approach 1000 girls now she’s 1/1000=0.001 of your experience, compare that to after you approach 10,000 girls now she’s 1/10000=0.0001 of your experience. which basically makes your “jitters” non-existent. this line of thinking by and large had the most impact on me and i can assure you’re it’s true.. when i approach a girl right now she just doesn’t matter at all to me so i can’t get aa. you need to get there, but only way is with sweat equity. if you think you’ll beat it thru forums you’ll never get there. in fact you can be on this forum for another 10 years and you won’t get there. take a trip somewhere. a different city for 2 weeks straight and just approach hundreds and hundreds of girls. it’s the funnest experience you’ll ever have.

    2. if you need to “get in state” to talk to a girl you’re just not there yet. i can be completely out of state and still have no problem approaching any girl. if you can’t do this, again refer to to #1 above.

    3a. this is for the guys that are worried about the people around you: they simply don’t care about you. the people around you are so busy with what they’re doing they can’t even sense that you’re making an approach. i remember one time i was coaching a friend of mine in a ZARA store and I approached every single girl in the store with him next to me, and I told him to pay attention to the women all around us to see if they notice and not one in the store ever looked up from her shopping, i probably approached 20 in that store with a simple line like “hey, how’s the shopping going?” and just asking her where she’s from etc.

    3b. even if everyone stops what they’re doing and finds out you’re hitting on the girl it doesn’t matter. i remember an especially funny moment when i was one day and i kept stopping every girl walking towards me in the street. not a fuck was given that day and i remember telling a girl in front of me to stop. she stopped but 4 other unrelated people stopped to hear what i had to say. that is her, and 4 other people (and the 4 other people were not in the same group, they were just passers by) on the street. i think i just said to her “hi, stop for a second” to stop her. and they all stopped. did i care? nope. i gave her a direct opener right in front of them… the people around her were dumbfounded so i said to them “guys, can you excuse me please? i’m trying to talk to this girl”. and they all just shrugged and walked away. was i embarrassed? no. i didn’t give a fuck about them.

    4. it doesn’t matter what you say. i remember battling between indirect and direct for an entire year and trying to figure out what is better. i used to have nightmares about this subject. now i just blurt out whatever i feel like in the moment. it can be either direct or indirect, it doesn’t matter at all to me. and further, you’ll be happen to find out that your success doesn’t rely on direct or indirect either especially if you just ask for the damn number at the end of it which is the most important thing.

    5. everyone around you is 100% focused on themselves. it’s like we live in a competition. i see the looks on people’s faces when they walk next to me. everyone is self-centered. they don’t care if i live or die. so in order to “retaliate” i become self-centered too in the way that i put my goals and what i want so much above other people now adays it’s ridiculous. as far as i’m concerned they’re all objects that i could care two shits about. when i asked you if you get approach anxiety if you talk to a rock, the answer is probably no. well guess what, everyone around me is a rock. i can’t help it anymore i just see them that way. even though it’s not politically correct etc. it’s just the way it is. and it happened organically from all my approaching. but the great thing about it i can literally do whatever the hell i want to in the world and it’s incredibly liberating. so to get good at this, i urge you to objectify people. to see them a the little lego-people they are that don’t give two shits about you and you in turn don’t give two shits about them.

    #72640

    SomeguyUK
    Participant

    Cheers for the AA advice Ryano. I am definitely not just a forum dweller – I am normally out there at least 3 times a week working specifically on this, some weeks I’ve done 5 days or even every day.

    The problem is I find that in the moment when I am about to approach, no logical thought makes any difference. Your 1/1000 rule is great but when that survival mechanism in your lizard brain kicks in, the fear bypasses any rationality.

    I probably should take a step back and focus just on AA and nothing else. Right now I am trying to practice the ‘3 second rule’ as I hesitate way too much and waste opportunities.

    Will try and get into your ‘see people as objects’ mindset.I do like the idea of going to another City to do this too.

    #72642

    ryano
    Participant

    if you have fears you’re just not there yet. i can assure you 100% it gets easier every time u approach. even if you have set-backs, the line is generally an uptrend. i was obsessed about it though. i did pickup on a full-time basis for 3 years, and managed to completely kill aa after 2 years, and that was after going out and approaching girls every single day. some days the fear of approaching was so intense i remember. that’s how hard it was. in the beginning, like first few months i remember walking for 8 hours and not approaching a single girl, contrast to right now where last time i was in nyc i approached every single girl i saw that was above an 8 (probably close to 200 approaches that day), which included 4 insta-dates, and 1 pull back to my hotel.

    it becomes a video game eventually and you become addicted because you find the experiences you have in life are linearly proportioned to it. i’ve had alot of sexual experiences from daygame. like, really sleazy things that went on in my life bc of it. i kept on wanting more and more. now i’m a bit jaded so i unplugged, i’m bored of the whole thing. it’s sad.. but nothing really “surprises” me anymore about it. so i’m taking a break from all of it right now to focus on business related stuff. maybe when i come back i’ll be inspired to try it out again. i also mentioned that u feel lonely after awhile so i am looking for a meaningful relationship moreso now.

    but yeah i can assure you it’s hard. but after all that work. wow, now i look back and think “how did i even have aa? how is it even possible to have aa?”. if you keep working on it a little bit every day your entire mindset changes. the way you look at the world everything. so i encourage u to keep doing it even if it might seem crazy it’s the funnest thing u can ever do really.

    #72643

    ryano
    Participant

    oh and one other tip for AA, watch prank videos on youtube in addition to watching infield daygame videos. prank videos and pickup go together well.. bc pickup is really all about messing with people. here are some good prank/pickup channels on youtube:
    BarryBeeTV,Cupid Shmupid,DennisCeeTV,Dr Destruction,Freddy Fair Hair,Good Looking Loser,boytoystory,Honest Signalz,How To Not Give a Fuck,InfraBren,JoshPalerLin,LAHWF,Justin Wayne Dating,OckTV,QuietAssassins,RiskyRobTV,VitalyZdTv,shawnrtv,simple pickup,simple misfits,squattincassanova,street attraction,super social lifestyle,thanosfilms,That Brown Nerd,theCHAIZYchannel,tom torero,whatever,willy beck,etc.

    these are just some of them, I used to watch prank videos just as much as pickup videos. i’d analyze them and watch them again and again. i was obsessed with people’s reactions and how much the pranksters truly didn’t give a shit about embarrassing themselves.

    nowadays i don’t watch this stuff as much my youtube videos have turned more into entrepreneurship related stuff.. but still, for those of you that are looking at getting more social i think prank vids are great..

    #72644

    The_Hurricane
    Keymaster

    There is no substitute for approaching a lot. Learning game is a physical process, not an intellectual process. The self that you’re going to be if you want to “be yourself” right now is not the self that you’re going to be after five years of relentless approaching.

    There is no substitute for confidence, taking chances, and turning up the heat. You can’t get really great results without doing all of these things.

    Both of the above – fearless approaching and the confidence to take chances – are two of the behaviors of the most desirable men.

    They’re not the only two behaviors of the most desirable men. There are others, and if you want the most desirable women to actually try to go out with you – to initiate contact, to ask you out, and to give you the best dates possible without any struggle – you can initially imitate, and eventually adopt as your own the behavior of the most desirable men.

    At one point, I was a natural game coach. I believed that the best end result could be achieved just by being ballsy and letting things go where they may. I did ok. I got dates, including some pretty hot ones. Where my game really took off – where I got models, actresses, and high value girls to ask me out – is when I started to study and adopt the behaviors of the most desirable men.

    –Lee

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