After second date.

[EJ_ap]

Before i mess things up worse a little prestory. I met this girl and to me she is a perfect ten in all aspects. She’s funny, beautiful, sarcastic. We clicked really good and have many things to talk about. However, she is super busy with her life, has day and evening job. Finishes late in the evening. We have gone on two dates. First was just getting to know each other, second we did some fun activity together. A day later she texted me first thing in the morning about what we did. We didn’t get sexually close after second date, not even a kiss on the lips. It bothered me a little. I tried sticking to the plan and did all me texts right without boring lines how are you, how was your day etc. Her response to my texts is random. Could be right away or could be within 3 hours. We flirted over texts few times, nothing big just small flirts.
I decided to ask her out for a third date. I invited her to my place for dinner. She declined saying she is working late and will go to bed right after work. I said no worries. Did’t talk to her for few days. Then i asked her out again. Now going back a little, after first date i asked her out for the second the same night when we texted each other after we got home. And she agreed. I set up the time for a second date and she said she would say yes but she can’t as she is super busy and not going to able to make it. So even when she declines a date she never offers alternative. However, she agrees to go out. So looks like i’m making all the effort.
Returning back to me asking her for a third. I asked her out again for the third date and she also said she can’t and explained me as why she can’t with a really valid reason. I got a bit upset and texted her saying that i’m not sure if i’m reading her right. Then she replied with further explanation as to regarding her work and she has no time to get other things done is the reason she can’t make it. She sounded pretty irritating by then.
Few days later i texted a joke saying:”they say never tell an angry woman to calm down as it works just as good as baptizing a cat”
I thought it was funny but i never got any response.
I’m thinking i killed everything. Should i even try something in the future? Or looks like it’s done.

[SomeguyUK]

I’d say your chances are pretty slim with this one, but you’ve got nothing to lose by trying again at some point.

The one interesting thing here is that she went into such detail with her explanation of why she couldn’t make the third date. That could just mean she was trying to let you down gently. But it could be that her reason was genuine and she wanted you to know she wasn’t bullshitting you.

Maybe ping her in a few months?

[EJ_ap]

Exactly why it threw me off. Possibly it’s a lost cause. I’ll try again. What bothers me the most is when you actually put effort and it doesn’t work out.

[SomeguyUK]

I’ve been there man, it’s frustrating. Just remember, it’s not always about you.

I’ve got a recent story that’s somewhat relevant here.

Back in April ’14, I met a really cute girl at a bar. We got on like a house on fire and made out loads. We had to go our separate ways that night, but we texted the next day and agreed we’d meet up soon.

I was in Spain the next week, and I texted her – no response. I figured maybe the text didn’t send as I was in a foreign country. When I got home I tried again – no response.

“WTF happened?!” I said to myself. This girl could not have been more into me, so how the fuck did I lose her? But I didn’t text her again.

Fast forward to last Friday, when I run into her in another bar. She comes over and apologises for not replying those times. She says she wasn’t totally honest with me when we met, and she was seeing someone at the time.

Next thing I know, she ditches some other guy she is with (who kept trying to give her shots), buys me a drink and we go home together 🙂

Moral of the story: sometimes it’s just about the girl and her situation. It’s frustrating, but if you resist the urge to do anything that lowers your value – like complaining or texting too much – maybe you’ll get another shot later.

Your girl does sound cold, but maybe she will be less busy in a few months.

[The_Hurricane]

Yeah, doesn’t look good from here. A few simple rules. 1) Never ask her out twice. 2) Never ask for another date while on a date. 3) Never complain about what she’s done. Complaining doesn’t change the way she feels about you. It just lowers your value in her eyes.

–Lee

[EJ_ap]

Thanks for the responses. I didn’t ask for a second date on the first. I asked about it after the date over text. She agreed. I texted her again this week. She responded within an hour or so. We had small talk. Didn’t ask her out or anything. Maybe i should step back a little.

[The_Hurricane]

Even the little bit of banter that you exchanged worked against you. If you’re going to pull back, pull all the way back. Disappear for two or three weeks, then ping her with something unrelated to anything, a cute link or a funny quote. You’re trying to reset her image of you as the needy, persistent guy. You’re not going to do that by being ever present. Will it work? At this point, probably not, but it’ll work better than just hanging in there are hoping things will change.

–Lee

[ryano]

Let me just say this, and fade back into oblivion..

Because this post is the epitome of what’s going on with this forum (and most other men’s forums on the internet for that matter). It’s like a broken record in here. I randomly poked my head in here and thought to myself “oh geez, here we go again”.

Your behavior reeks of low value. Just from your story I’ve already placed the girl about 100 points above you. Don’t get me wrong, you sound intelligent so I know you’re a good guy. But you’re just missing a few basic points in here. It’s just things that have massively helped me so I’m sure they can help you as well.

#1. Don’t do anything to “make” the girl like you. This is apparent from your post. You keep keeping score about when you called her, and what you did, what she did, how she replied. It’s like a chess game reading your post. And that’s just completely the wrong way to see this. Because when you act like that, you’ll inherently give off a “low value” vibe. People that play alot of games are usually the people that have the lowest self esteem. Be true to what you want and who you are, first and foremost. If this girl doesn’t fit the bill, NEXT her.

#2. Place yourself, your true identity and your needs above any one girl. Work on yourself. Your business, your finances, your health, your sociability, everything and everything. Be the next superstar. Be a millionaire. Be everything you always wanted to be and more. Raise your inherent value and girls will start flocking to you (provided of’course you ask them out as girls inherently don’t initiate). Also, have a strong sense of what you want from women and what behaviors you will and won’t accept. And make the girl know crystal clear if her behavior is bothering you.

More so than anything though, be your unique self. Nobody will EVER be like you in this world. So when you’re around this girl make sure every little eccentricity about yourself shines through. Say the things YOU want to say, not necessarily things that your friends or people, or people in this forum find “appropriate”. Things that make you happy. Embrace your uniqueness. That’s the opposite of making someone like you. Because when you try and make someone like you, you’re literally extinguishing any sense of self identity you have. Because EVERYONE tries to make others like them, so that’s a very common behavior and it’s just not attractive to women. So you get relegated in the “everyone else” category.

Another thing about being yourself, a true man is being sexual and doing things that amuse you and turn YOU on. So for example, if you’re with this girl and you’re not being sexual you’re really not being a man in her eyes. The woman is ALWAYS looking for the man’s lead. When you do things like trying to get her to like you, you’re casting her as the lead and women are REPULSED by this behavior.

#4. Forget about a girl taking initiative. In the courtship process, it’s just not in their nature. She’s not gonna call you all of a sudden to hang out (that only happens AFTER you have sex with her multiple times and you begin seeing eachother consistently). That means that you’re going to be doing all the work initially. read: all of it.

#5. Girls are random and their emotions fluctuate. You said “I thought it was funny but i never got any response.
I’m thinking i killed everything. Should i even try something in the future?”

This is thinking like a logical man, not thinking like a girl. Girl’s moods fluctuate. Hell, you could text her 3 hours later when she’s fingering herself alone in her room, and she’ll respond right away and forget everything that happened before. THERE ARE NO MISTAKES. As I said, never keep score. Girls don’t have a score. They’re like chickens running around the place jumping from emotion to emotion. They’re either available when you msg them or they’re not. That’s why persistence is key. But you don’t start thinking about what you did wrong or did right, or all that nonsense. EVERYTHING you do is always right. Remember that. The only thing you can do “wrong” though is second guess yourself like you did in this post.

Just do what you want to do. Be your unique self, and if inspite of all that, the girl is just not talking to you.That means she’s not attracted to you. And you move on.

As far as this particular girl is concerned, NO ONE knows. She might be giving you a blowjob in an hour. Your story basically means nothing except that you don’t understand the random nature of people and their bullshit. Just don’t keep score. If her behavior annoys you, say it straight to her face. Be 100% true to yourself. Girls mold, men lead. Just keep moving forward, date many girls (just as she’s dating many guys) eventually you’ll find a girl that you can’t get enough of, that sticks to you like glue. That accepts you and all your eccentricities and shortcomings. And that’s the one you want to be around anyways. Not these duds that aren’t making you feel good.

[Cartoox]

Hey ryano…

I do like your point #5 up there….

[EJ_ap]

I do agree that girls behave strictly based on their emotions. From the past I remember I had girls where I was persistent and eventually they gave in. I like coming here for the advice but a lot of times same rules don’t apply to all the girls. Sometimes it’s hard to read people. I just think if I have to put so much effort into this from my side how good can it be after? So I started going on dates with other girls.
I did pull back and next thing you know she’s texting me first. Question is why after she said no 3 times in a row even though she gave me detailed excuse
Bored? Keeps me in the loop?

[SomeguyUK]

I agree man – how much fun is it going to be when you have to beg the girl to go out with you? Personally I have never done that just because I know it would hurt my pride too much.

As I touched on earlier, the detailed excuse could actually be a good sign. Sometimes when people give you more details than necessary, they’re trying to show you that they aren’t bullshitting you – i.e she really was busy and not just fobbing you off.

[The_Hurricane]

It’s always surprising to guys when pulling back works, but having seen it enough, I can tell you that it’s one of the few things you can do to improve your chances after getting a “no” or an excuse. Think of it this way: the most valuable thing you have to give to or take away from a girl is you. When she’s not giving you what you want, start taking yourself away. It’s not just a game. It’s real. Meaning, if you start taking yourself away and she doesn’t respond, take even more of yourself away. What eventually happens? She responds by trying harder or – more often than not – you take yourself entirely out of the picture and move on. It’s the only course of action that is consistent with the idea that you want to focus on people who are adding something to your life, and de-weight the people who are not.

–Lee

[ryano]

It’s not like your pulling back had anything to do with it. Take yourself completely out of the equation. Your games have nothing to do with her responding or not responding. If anything, they make things worse. The moment the girl feels that you’re playing value games it becomes transparent that you’re “working” for her. Don’t play be her rules. Message her whenever you want. Even if it makes you seem “lame”. Of’course don’t overdo it. But show her that you’re not keeping score, that it’s not a tit-for-tat type thing. Where if she did something “bad” you do something “bad” in return. That’s like two girls playing. Instead, you show her that you could care less about her games. For example, a girl takes 3 days to respond to my text and then she sends me a text, I have no problem responding within a second back to her and asking her out.

Sometimes the girl doesn’t respond to you. Then you simply message her on a “better” day and then she wants to meet up. Girls can even dislike you yet meet up with you if you message them again on a day where their attitude is better: ie she’s either lonely or horny. Provided you didn’t give off needy signals. And are simply a persistent person.

In a transient society where people forget about each other after the first date, and play mind games with eachother, a girl finds value in an honest guy that keeps on trying. For months even. Even if she doesn’t give warm fuzzy feelings back.

Girls bend, and girls break, and eventually they give in to the guy that is persistent. But whatever you do, don’t keep score. You’ll find that they behave in random ways, and the ones with the most options behave the most erratic. Because logistics are random. (what she’s doing that week, who she’s with, are her parents in town? is she with her girlfriends) and emotions are random. Ie she hates you, she likes you, you seem creepy so she hates you again. in fact, she hates all men, she doesn’t want anything to do with you, you’re not her type AT ALL. go away. Don’t ever message her! Well ok, she’s open to the possibility of MAYBE meeting you. ok, she’ll go out for coffee with you, she hates you, well okay you seem decent, she fucks you, she hates you, she doesn’t contact you back. she sort of likes you but isn’t sure. now she’s your girlfriend.

don’t follow their stupid emotions. do what you do. any way you want to do it. you set the tone, the rules, you play by your own rules. and you just know that they’re little drama queens that don’t deserve you playing into their emotional roller coasters. you simply, leave it and try again later. no matter how “pissed” she seemed. women forget and follow. it’s their nature.

[MrAntiquity]

@Ryan–

Welcome back (if only briefly 🙂

thing is, you and Lee play different ‘games” (I don’t like the word–but we’re lying to ourselves if we pretend that dating isn’t 95% posturing)

You play a purely numbers game–i.e. Girls a random, there’s a zillion of ’em out there, you’ll get some if you try, so relax and just do something. Which is a reasonable philosophy.

Lee’s (not to speak for him, but what it looks like to me) is about maximization and some basic rules of statistics and economics…odds swing a bit in your favor if you’re a bit more scarce and seen as more of a “hot commodity”. So why not maximize that if you can–and if you AREN’T A “hot commodity” maybe you can do some things to fake it a bit.

For people who really don’t give a flying rat’s ass at all, the numbers game is fine. For people who ARE a bit more naturally invested, maybe it makes sense to be a bit more creative (and economical) in how you do things.

I don’t like obsessing over playing games, but I’m not the kind of person to completely not care at all either….I think my approach is more of a middle ground that fits with my identity/personality.

[The_Hurricane]

@MrAntiquity

What you said about my approach is correct, but I’d also like to add the following.

1) Those of you who have had a hot woman contact you and ask you out know what it feels like. It’s a qualitatively different feeling to go on those dates. You walk in with an entirely different sense of self and entirely different set of expectations.

2) There are women who are not just hot but are also desirable in other ways – they’re smart and accomplished and funny and trustworthy, etc. – and they can be pretty selective. Many of those women – I would say most – are looking for an equally selective man. To them, that’s the most important quality in a man. He has so much going on that he has to be selective. It’s hard to get these women simply by chasing them.

3) I hate bad dates. Have I ever gone on one and had it turn out well? Of course. But on the whole, if I think a date is going to be lukewarm, I’m not going. I have plenty of other options. At this stage in my life, there’s only so much I’m willing to do to get laid, even when I am single and horny, and an evening with a girl who may not be that into me is not one of them.

–Lee

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