Accountability on doing the 6 steps

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  • #74454
    baresa
    Participant

    SomeguyUK: Thanks for your comments, it helps a lot 🙂

    My take on your comments in terms of faking it: While doing the boot camp I was basically faking it for 2 weeks with the coaches. And it worked. But as I wrote earlier: When I came back home everything was gone and the faking had not helped me at all. I was back to square one again, however at the cost of 20000 dollars. However, I admit if I had a coach push me to do 10 approaches every single day for 1 year, my world view would be different 🙂

    Step 2: Day 15

    Only did 5 or so approaches since I came into town too late.

    A few observations:

    1. I have now been doing the program for 15 days non stop and in total I have approached approx. 200 girls. According to the program I should approach at least 5 girls each day for 7 days totaling 35 girls. I have approached 6x that. I have pushed myself every single day even though the weather was really bad and I had to do the commute. And I don’t feel even close to opening my mouth yet. The resistance (step 3) is enormous, not just with beautiful girls but just any stranger like a man or an ugly girl. But I will keep pushing.

    2. There is an e book by Michael Pilinsky called “Without embarrassment” and it resonates a lot with me. It discusses the sexual shame/embarrassment originating from childhood (something that was also discussed on this forum some 10 years ago by a member here). Anyhow, Pilinsky says: In most cases you don’t have a fear of rejection but you have a fear of showing that you are a vulnerable human being who needs love, affection and sex. And how do you know if you belong to that category of men who don’t have a fear of rejection but who feel shame and embarrassment when approaching a girl? If a girl is attracted to you and she gives off all the possible signs that you should approach her (like smiling non stop, like touching her hair, like standing 3 feet away from you, like looking at you all the time, maybe holding up a written sign saying “please talk to me”) and you STILL cannot approach her, then you have a shame problem deeply rooted in your subconscious mind. I have been told a few times that I look handsome – even like a movie star (forgot the name of the actor) but these compliments don’t help at all when standing next to a girl. It’s extremely frustrating.

    #74455
    baresa
    Participant

    Step 2: Day 16

    Today I dry approached 10 girls.

    A few observations:

    Last night I was doing some heavy thinking and came to the following conclusion: Since it’s shameful that a girl looks at me when I’m standing close (= I quickly look away because I was caught displaying my lust for her) I realized I am not AT ALL ready for step 3. I need to be much more comfortable around girls. The 200 girls I have dry
    approached were pretty and attractive. If one of the 200 girls would look at me I would chicken out, look away and feel big discomfort and resistance – without saying anything! My way to solve this problem is as follows: Do step 2 with unattractive girls/women and older ladies and on purpose (when standing close) look at them and try to get caught looking at them. I know I will not freak out if an unattractive girl or old lady looks at me because my body feels no lust for her. The purpose is to move in like she is pray, try to catch her eye and thereby subconsciously convey some (fake) sexual/romantic interest in her. When I get comfortable doing this with unattractive girls, the idea is to increase and do the same with 5s, 6s, 7s, 8s, 9s and 10s in that order. Like everyone says, 80% is body language, so I want to display some sexual interest by getting caught looking on purpose. Now this can have 2 outcomes I believe: a) The girl stays where she is (good sign) or b) The girl moves away. b) can be interpreted as a rejection but I choose to see it differently: If she moves away she realizes I was non-verbally hitting on her and she did not like my advances. But the mere fact that she moved away tells me that I am comfortable showing my (sexual) intent – and that is a victory. As long as I don’t freak out when she moves away and I feel great about it – I won the battle. i could call this step 2.2.

    Therefore, today, combined with my 10 normal approaches, I tried to seek out unattractive girls and old ladies in the super market or train station. This is my very first day doing this and I think it did not go well: most of the time I felt those girls/women/ladies were so shy or inhibited that I almost never were able to catch their eyes.

    What do you think of this new idea? Do you have any improvements? As you see I’m trying to break down step 2 into even tinier baby steps.

    • This reply was modified 6 months, 2 weeks ago by baresa.
    #74458
    SomeguyUK
    Participant

    I’ll give you my opinion but I don’t know if I’m the right person to answer this. Maybe Eric will chime in and, and he’s probably had experience with guys in your position.

    I think relying on getting and giving looks is a bad strategy. Women get creeped out by guys looking at them a lot (even if it’s a good looking guy).

    So by doing this thing of looking at women, you’re perhaps just setting yourself up to get reactions that will make you feel worse.

    Plus, as you noticed, they often won’t notice you so you’re making things difficult for yourself.

    I think you might be just procrastinating doing step 3 a little. You ultimately have to confront the fear of opening your mouth and saying something.

    (And if you think that looking at someone is sexual intent, then why not just show sexual intent in a more friendly, open way?)

    You need to be brave. Go say something to people. Pick some openers and practice saying them at home. Get next to people and say something immediately without hesitating. Just tell yourself you will confront the fear and accept whatever feelings come after.

    I promise you, all you need to do is do it ONCE and after that everything will get easier.

    #74459
    SomeguyUK
    Participant

    By the way, I also don’t agree with Pilinsky’s assessment.

    I know plenty of guys who have done well with women, who aren’t afraid to be vulnerable. But who would still freeze when it comes to approaching a girl who is showing them interest.

    Personally, if I hadn’t approached a girl in a long time, I would be the same. I would freeze, even if the girl was blowing kisses at me. That is how approach anxiety works.

    Our minds want to make sense of things. We want to explain away these feelings and we start telling ourself stories about our childhood and how we’re afraid of rejection etc.

    I don’t think it helps. In fact, I think it causes you to create a self-image that works against you. If you see yourself as a victim, you will act like one.

    Just embrace the feeling and stop trying to label it or understand it. The way to overcome it is just by being brave.

    The big change happens when you start saying stuff to girls and they like it. Believe me, when that happens you will see your sexuality as a good thing. And it’s much, much easier than you think.

    • This reply was modified 6 months, 1 week ago by SomeguyUK.
    • This reply was modified 6 months, 1 week ago by SomeguyUK.
    #74476
    baresa
    Participant

    I have been stressed a bit so here comes a bunch load.

    Step 2: Day 17

    Today I decided to skip the normal approaches and focus on step 2.2 approaching unattractive girls. What a bummer. Town was filled with young hotties and I had a hard time finding something unattractive. I eventually found a nice target in a supermarket, moved in like a sniper, glanced over and got a smile from her. Success. She was not freaked out. But I only got 1 today.

    Step 2: Day 18

    Today I did step 2.2 again. This step is not as easy as a normal step 2 since the women are more difficult to locate and often they are so insecure/shy etc that they will never look at me. However, today I was able to approach 4 such ladies in a supermarket. 3 smiled at me and 1 was neutral and with none I felt that they were creeped out by me.

    Step 2: Day 19

    Step 2.2: 5 or 10. Less than 5 were successful. Biggest problem is that old ladies and unattractive (obese) girls are so shy and timid that my step 2.2 does not work very often. Best chances are with MILFs: 30 to 45 yr olds shopping alone or with their kids. I noticed that non native colored girls can give some very deep glances unlike the locals – it almost feels as if they want to secure a white dude for a nice life in the West. Here is the good part about step 2.2: If I dry approach a girl and look at her from a short distance without her looking at me, it will give me a somewhat powerful feeling of success since it is different from doing a pure step 2. It is the next logical step in any interaction that you turn your head just before saying something. So far step 2.2 has not backfired on me.

    Step 2: Day 20
    Did some 5 approaches. Nothing spectacular

    Step 2: Day 21
    Did some 5 approaches. I was annoyed due to too few good targets in town.

    Step 2: Day 22
    5 Approaches or so. Special interaction I don’t know how to interpret: Walked into a supermarket and saw a beautiful mom with her small kid. Went straight up to her. Brief eye contact. Left her and tried to approach some other women. Found some food and went to the check out and was waiting in line. Was looking around and saw the sexy mom in the other line again. Looked at her and she looked back – but now she did not break eye contact and I did neither (she was eye fucking me). For a few seconds we looked, and then I suddenly felt a growing boner. I’ve never tried that before so fast. My reflex was to look away because I must have felt embarrassed – of course she could not see my boner in the pants, but still. It was clear that she was checking me out and I felt “electricity”. It was a very powerful emotional moment for me – lots of non verbal communication.

    Step 2: Day 23
    5 to 10 approaches. I automatically started to approach hotter and hotter girls and give them a little eye contact – however not necessarily with her looking back. I felt it was a waste to approach old women and ugly girls so I’m teasing my shame a bit more now.

    Step 2: Day 24
    Less than 5 approaches. I was very busy today. Nothing interesting happened.

    Step 2: Day 25
    Only 2 approaches at the train station. Was sitting next to a sexy girl who was playing with her phone. I decided to sit next to her for a long time and collect my thoughts. Basically my brain wanted to stay blank and show zero interest and curiosity in her. The girl was watching some bullshit instagram and was clearly bored – she would be happy if somebody would talk to her – but I didn’t. Anyhow, I had to FORCE myself to think about her. I was calm and “ice cold”, solid as a rock. Would it have been easier to talk to her if she was doing nothing with her and staring like I did? NOT AT ALL – same resistance. I had to force myself to consider: Am I afraid of her? Would it be shameful to talk to her? Would I be creepy if I talked to her? I could say no to all 3 questions. And of course, her having a bf, only interested in tall guys etc did not even cross my mind – my fear of rejection = zero. I could run all the affirmations I wanted and all would be positive. Everything screams: Do the approach now – you WILL win. But here is the problem, maybe: When thinking about the 3 minutes with her I had no interest in knowing what she likes for breakfast, how many times she masturbates a day, what she studies, what her dreams are….zero interest.

    Step 2: Day 26
    Again a busy day. 5 approaches in a supermarket. Picked the cutest girl at the register. During check out she asked me if I wanted a coupon. Usually I just say no because its all bullshit. But this time I asked, why not. Had a 15 second convo on what I could win and made a remark if I needed to buy more stuff to get even more coupons.

    Step 2: Day 27
    Very busy day: Less than 5 dry approaches in a supermarket.

    Step 2: Day 28
    Another tough, busy day. Even though I was tired commuted to town in the evening but things were empty. 2 approaches.

    #74477
    baresa
    Participant

    SomeguyUK:

    >I think relying on getting and giving looks is a bad strategy. Women get creeped out by guys looking at them a lot (even if it’s a good looking guy).

    So by doing this thing of looking at women, you’re perhaps just setting yourself up to get reactions that will make you feel worse.

    Plus, as you noticed, they often won’t notice you so you’re making things difficult for yourself.<

    Let’s see. So far I have done about 50 approaches including looking and all of them went well. So far none were creeped out and I felt better afterwards (=victory). When they don’t notice me I still feel it as a victory. Remember this step is not to talk to them or to get ant numbers but just to feel comfortable around girl and not being afraid of looking at them from a short distance (1 mo ago I would never have the courage to do so).

    >You need to be brave. Go say something to people. Pick some openers and practice saying them at home. Get next to people and say something immediately without hesitating. Just tell yourself you will confront the fear and accept whatever feelings come after.<

    Whenever I have been debating my limiting beliefs/anxiety with coaches (not just the ones from the boot camp) I feel that nobody really understands HOW BAD it is. They simply cannot imagine it. Analogy: Assume you are afraid of snakes. Now a coach tells you to go to a certain location where there is a big cage of non poisonous snakes. He promises you that they cannot kill you, they are all fed and will not bite you. Now you have to go into that cage all by yourself and hang out there for 5 min. You are all by yourself and the coach is far away – you have to go in the cage with all your willpower. How many people would do that knowing they will not get killed or bitten?? People who have seen snakes and been close to snakes all their life can easily go into the cage. Those who have never been close to a snake and only seen them on television will probably not go into the cage. I have never played with snakes in my childhood :-).

    I have been reading up some more and also combining it with an experience where i was sitting next to a beautiful girl for 3 min to collect my thoughts and try to understand what holds me back. Basically my brain wanted to stay blank and show zero interest and curiosity in her. The girl was watching some bullshit instagram and was clearly bored – she would be happy if somebody would talk to her – but I didn’t. Anyhow, I had to FORCE myself to think about her. I was calm and “ice cold”, solid as a rock. Would it have been easier to talk to her if she was doing nothing with her phone and staring like I did? NOT AT ALL – same resistance. I also realized that asking her for the time/starbucks is equally frightening as giving her a compliment or asking for her number. There is no difference in my mind.

    I have now been doing this exercise for 4 weeks non stop. 4 times longer than recommended and in total 300-400 approaches. The resistance to say something is still MASSIVE. It’s like the gradual exposure is not working anymore. Maybe it’s working but the improvements are so small that I cannot feel them. I have been soul searching hard for 4 weeks and been very serious about this exercise and my verdict is still Pilinski: My shame is blocking me from opening my mouth and saying “hi” to a girl. However there is a HUGE difference in saying “hi” to a girl walking on a trail (easy, no problem) and saying “hi” to a girl at a cross walk where I have chosen to put myself next to her (major roadblock). At the moment I feel this step 2 will take 6 months or a total average of 2000-3000 dry approaches.

    #74478
    SomeguyUK
    Participant

    Fair enough dude. If the looking thing works for you and is genuinely getting closer to the next step, that’s still improvement.

    You obviously have very strong approach anxiety, I believe you. You mentioned before though that you did a bootcamp and were able to approach with a coach pushing you. So you can do it with the right help. Maybe it would help you to find a buddy who is also working on this?

    Another thing: You mentioned you don’t really have female friends you can talk to. Do you have women in your life in general?

    Perhaps it might help you to simply interact with women more. You could do hobbies or volunteering or something that gets you around women. Not to get dates, but just to have more interactions with them and make some more female friends.

    #74479
    SomeguyUK
    Participant

    Fair enough dude. If the looking thing works for you and is genuinely getting closer to the next step, that’s still improvement.

    You obviously have very strong approach anxiety, I believe you. You mentioned before though that you did a bootcamp and were able to approach with a coach pushing you. So you can do it with the right help. Maybe it would help you to find a buddy who is also working on this?

    Another thing: You mentioned you don’t really have female friends you can talk to. Do you have women in your life in general?

    Perhaps it might help you to simply interact with women more. You could do hobbies or volunteering or something that gets you around women. Not to get dates, but just to have more interactions with them and make some more female friends.

    Edit: bah, sorry for the double posting

    • This reply was modified 6 months ago by SomeguyUK.
    #74481
    baresa
    Participant

    Step 2: Day 29

    10 dry approaches today.

    #74510
    baresa
    Participant

    Step 2: Day 30 to Day 53

    I have been away for a while but I have stayed on track and tried to complete the task of dry approaching every single day. There have been a few days where I did not manage really and only got 1 approach or so. I guess that I on average have done 5 approaches a day totaling 120 for this 24 day period.

    The problem is that this task bores me a bit now – it’s not very challenging anymore filled with fun and excitement. But at the same time it has not conditioned me to do step 3 AT ALL. The resistance to say something is as strong as on day 1!

    #74511
    baresa
    Participant

    >You obviously have very strong approach anxiety, I believe you. You mentioned before though that you did a bootcamp and were able to approach with a coach pushing you. So you can do it with the right help. Maybe it would help you to find a buddy who is also working on this?

    I agree. To a certain extent. I realized that most social people rarely go out to parties, gatherings, festivals, concerts all by themselves. They typically go with a friend or they know that some of the guests arriving are people they know. I guess I am just like them. It takes STEEL BALLS also for extroverted, social people to step into a crowd in a foreign unknown place WITHOUT a phone used as a social escape. I always notice social people together in packs. Take the most social high school girl and tell her to go to a city 200 km away to attend a party with none of her friends. I’ll bet that most will refuse. They will feel “naked”. If I would go out with a buddy I would most likely massively increase my confidence to say something – just like a pro coach. But I fear when the buddy is gone I will be like the extroverted social high school girl: I will not approach anymore.

    >Another thing: You mentioned you don’t really have female friends you can talk to. Do you have women in your life in general?

    Not really.

    >Perhaps it might help you to simply interact with women more. You could do hobbies or volunteering or something that gets you around women. Not to get dates, but just to have more interactions with them and make some more female friends.

    This goes along with my first paragraph. This is the highway to getting a girlfriend – this is what 95% of all men do. Hobbies/volunteering will get me in a comfortable state where I can socialize and talk to girls. But I believe it will not condition me to do approaches all by myself in a foreign city. I realize I have the deepest respect for those guys who can approach girls on the street all by themselves. 95% of all guys would rather go to a war zone than cold approaching a girl.

    I do realize that any female social interaction will benefit me in some way.

    #74512
    SomeguyUK
    Participant

    Props to you for keeping on trying man.

    It seems to me that you’re encountering so much internal resistance, you need to attack this from all angles.

    > If I would go out with a buddy I would most likely massively increase my confidence to say something – just like a pro coach. But I fear when the buddy is gone I will be like the extroverted social high school girl: I will not approach anymore.

    Or it could be that it gets you over the hurdle you’re at right now, and then you can do more on your own.

    In my own experience, I worked on my approach anxiety for about 2 years alone, and I made progress. But it was only when I went out with a coach that I made the leap to actually enjoying the interactions and feeling good during the approach. Before that I was just kinda awkward. But after going out with the coach a couple times, I could do a LOT more alone.

    So even though we’re talking about different stages, I do think that just seeing someone else do this stuff, or having them push/encourage you, could give you that little push over the edge.

    > I do realize that any female social interaction will benefit me in some way.

    Yeah. I’m no expert but it seems to me that if you don’t have a normal level of comfort around women, that’s going to compound your anxiety even more when it comes to approaching them.

    > But I believe it will not condition me to do approaches all by myself in a foreign city

    It might still give you some extra confidence and comfort.

    Look at it this way – if what you’re doing now isn’t working, you gotta try something else. It sounds like you’ve got all the mileage you’re gonna get out of doing your ‘dry approaches’. If you can’t get to the next level alone, you need to expand your horizons.

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by SomeguyUK.
    #74526
    baresa
    Participant

    2 months and 1 week has passed since my last post. I have not been approaching since then, since I realized it’s not working for me. To conclude, how sad it might be, the 6 steps are not working for me and I had to bail out before step 3. I was hoping this was the final and most gentle way to remove anxiety – but it’s not. Talking to stranger girls in the streets taps into social norms that are programmed into most peoples minds as being socially non acceptable. I’m a slave to this social programming.

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