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Approach Forum » Recent Posts http://approachanxiety.com/forum/ Approach Forum » Recent Posts en Thu, 29 Jul 2010 13:59:28 +0000 Francis on "First Day 2 Dilemma!" http://approachanxiety.com/forum/topic.php?id=1251#post-5687 Thu, 29 Jul 2010 08:52:25 +0000 Francis 5687@http://approachanxiety.com/forum/ Ok just thought I give an update on how last night went. I met this Italian girl outside the pub at 8pm where she was gigging. It was a small open mic night for singers & musicians and had a small intimate gathering of 10 people max. We chatted for a tiny bit and got something to eat (paid seperately, was not a date). We only chatted a little bit but must of time was spent fussing about the menu (her part) and then she told me a little bit about her dilemma to stay here for 2 extra months (which she is) or go back to Italy to continue with her university. Her 2 male flat mates came later to watch. Some other singers and musicians came. You're right Eric, she was VERY distracted being surrounded by her own friends/singers that she didn't actually introduce me properly to anyone of them despite clearly introducing the singers to the other singer friends she has and left me out. The event had a no talking rule while each performance was in play out of respect, so couldn't get much talking done. Her turn to perform did not commence to about 1 hour and half through so stayed until a little after her performance so I couldn't dash off yet not having heard her perform. I then thanked her for invite and told her it was great. She was happy I came and thanked me for coming. Still didn't get to chat much as she appeared very distracted with her singer friends afterwards. I left during the 5 minute break. Now 10pm To be honest my attraction for her dropped after seeing her again. She's a friendly person, just not that interested any more really. I felt a little like a spare wheel and a little down. But I've learned a few things from all this: 1. State your intentions as a man! My initial interaction with her when I met her busking was very friendly and non-flirty and non-sexual. So I was meeting her last night as a new 'friend'. There was really no space last night for attraction building. 2. Stay friends I'll keep her as a friend as she is here for about 2 months more. I found last night I'm not that attracted to her any more. It's always good to have more female friends for which I don't have many and will get me use to being around women more. Plus, she's good looking so it's good to hang around a pretty lady. I'll still invite her to the Brazilian festivals this weekend and keep in touch as a friend only. Next time when I approach I need to practice being more sexual and flirty and stating my intentions. I left the pub last night and I felt sad that I was just a friend and that I felt left out from the social group but I had to realise and pat myself on the back that I created the reality of myself at that evening by approaching a beautiful woman, engaging her and getting her number which is first time I've ever directly got a phone number from an approach. I ROCK!!! Cheers guys!! Francis Slimm on "A recent experience at the club --Long" http://approachanxiety.com/forum/topic.php?id=1252#post-5686 Thu, 29 Jul 2010 04:43:01 +0000 Slimm 5686@http://approachanxiety.com/forum/ Thanks nonstop So I have question. When I sat down with her after dancing, what should of been my goal in the conversation? KL on "Possible to reconnect after messing up?" http://approachanxiety.com/forum/topic.php?id=1253#post-5685 Thu, 29 Jul 2010 02:12:44 +0000 KL 5685@http://approachanxiety.com/forum/ Crono, I totally hear where you are coming from. It's one massive lost opportunity, is what you're afraid of. I totally understand because I've had MANY lost opportunities myself. If only I had done this, or asked that question, I tell myself, things could have been different with "that" girl. I have come to several conclusions on this issue. First, it's just not healthy to keep turning this "one" girl over and over in my head. I have to focus on the future, not the past. The past can offer powerful insights and lessons, but at some point I have to be oriented toward future accomplishments. Life is just too short. Second, if I really commit to making new opportunities, meeting new people, interacting with new girls, eventually everything falls into perspective, including those lost opportunities. Is it past the point of no return with this girl? Only you can answer that. Here's what I recommend: before answering that question, get out and meet some new women. Women you've never known before, never even seen before. Women you don't work with. Take a trip over a weekend to another city or state and meet women who don't live anywhere near you. Get to know them, learn about them, and learn their stories. Go out with them. Attend their events, and have them attend your events. Make it a habit, over several months. By the time you're done socially experimenting, I'm willing to bet that either (1) office girl will be attracted to you again because she will see you've got a lot going on in your life, and aren't so smitten with her (which can be very unsettling for a girl), or (2) by the time you're done you'll have so much more going on in your life, and so many more smart, beautiful, interesting women around that you won't be all that interested in her anymore. nonstop on "Responsibility" http://approachanxiety.com/forum/topic.php?id=1254#post-5684 Wed, 28 Jul 2010 20:04:43 +0000 nonstop 5684@http://approachanxiety.com/forum/ If you are approaching a new women you will want to lead initially. Depending on the situation, you would likely bring good energy (value) to the situation. There are times when you will let the conversation drop to see if she picks it up. For the most part, Yes. Men lead, women follow. One thing most guys forget or don't recognize is IF or WHEN they do something, whether she's responding how he wants or not. (ie: enjoying herself with you, or not). A different perspective: Women want (good) sex just as much, if not more often than men. Even in a relationship, she probably won't directly ask for sex very often at all. She will give you hints which are opportunities for you to lead IF you recognize them. As well as recognizing if you misunderstood a signal as well and she was actually just looking for some cuddling. Half of "being a man" is just doing shit and hoping it works and dealing with it if it doesn't. The other half is learning how to make it work the way you want it. (bleh bad example, but typing on phone) Lead more, but give her opportunities to show interest. Any touching is not an accident, but it depends where. Spending time around you is no accident, but depends a little on the context. Etc. She'll tell you what she's feeling without saying a word most of the time. crono_ on "Possible to reconnect after messing up?" http://approachanxiety.com/forum/topic.php?id=1253#post-5683 Wed, 28 Jul 2010 16:32:23 +0000 crono_ 5683@http://approachanxiety.com/forum/ Thanks for your comment. It's frustrating when you receive advice that is good and probably very true yet is not what you wanted to hear. I think I already knew what you said but was trying to deny it. I know that I've blown it and any chance of reconciliation will likely be long, difficult, and indirect. That said, as much as I am ridiculously attracted to this girl, I won't hold my breath and will peruse any other options if they become available. Thanks again for the comment, it's appreciated. tido on "Responsibility" http://approachanxiety.com/forum/topic.php?id=1254#post-5682 Wed, 28 Jul 2010 15:48:19 +0000 tido 5682@http://approachanxiety.com/forum/ How much of the interaction is the guy responsible for with a girl, 100%? I understand that women do not like to take the responsibility when it comes to initiating sex. But what about interacting with the girl, is it the same thing, guys take all the responsibility and leads the interaction in every aspect? Energy, conversation, physical connection, etc., whole taking the responsibility of the interaction. ramakandra on "Possible to reconnect after messing up?" http://approachanxiety.com/forum/topic.php?id=1253#post-5681 Wed, 28 Jul 2010 14:22:20 +0000 ramakandra 5681@http://approachanxiety.com/forum/ OK you need to listen to her when she says stop or that shes not interested. I don't know how much clearer she needs to be but you upset her. Even if you did not intend to, shes upset and distrusts you. She will not likely fall back into your arms without apprehension anyways. I suggest you meet someone else, this has been a pretty long string of back and forth with her - shes not exactly feeling it. Shes prob a great girl but like you said, 4.5 years of a long term relationship can skew your perspective on the world. She is prob not sure what to make of your individual situation with your ex. Maybe she is not understanding enough, or maybe she just doesn't know how to deal with it. You have to allow her that solace and accept that shes not comfortable with it all. The ticket situation is kind of nil - I am sure she invited a lot of people and just wanted to help raise the money. Whatever, you should use these opportunities to network with other people. If you act like you are a social, like-able guy around everyone at work she may have to get a little concerned that she lost you. Sometimes all it takes is a act of defiance by attracting other people to get someone back. I'd also avoid sending her a thank you card, thats cheesy. Shes not your girlfriend and she will be turned off further. Its a great gesture for a family, friend, or lover but not a ex. Good luck though. crono_ on "Possible to reconnect after messing up?" http://approachanxiety.com/forum/topic.php?id=1253#post-5680 Wed, 28 Jul 2010 05:41:49 +0000 crono_ 5680@http://approachanxiety.com/forum/ Hi Everyone, I've been lurking around this site for the last week or so and figured I would finally register. There are definitely some good articles and posts here, one of which caught my attention tonight while at work but now I can't seem to find it anymore and don't recall the title. It seemed to have some similarities to a situation I am currently in. First of all, I am sorry for the length of this post. There is just a lot of information to write in order to fully understand things. If you're not interested in the details, feel free to skip to the bottom where there is a line of *******'s. The last paragraph should sum things up. I work in a call center dealing with angry customers calling all day (loads of fun....*cough*). Around this past November, a girl at work caught my attention. She works on a different account but sits in the same row of desks that I do, though she is on the other side of the floor from me. We are still within view of each other however. Throughout November and December we didn't really talk much, though I did approach her one day to ask the name of someone on her account as an excuse to talk to her. On Christmas, I gave her a card and a candy cane and since then we often made eye contact and smiled to each other a fair bit. Eventually, I grew some balls and emailed her just asking how she was doing and this started up some light emailing back and forth, kind of getting to know each other. We started to sit next to each other on our lunches and had a great time chatting. One day I asked her if she wanted to join me at a club I was dj'ing at after work, and she said yes. We went out to the club and had a blast. We had some drinks together, danced, and while we were sitting at a table chatting she could tell I was nervous and grabbed my hands and told me to "be aggressive". I immediately grabbed her head and kissed her on the lips. It was amazing. After this night we hung out a lot, got physical, but never slept together. We were sharing things about each other. Though, for some reason, she was quite closed about her past. Our talks suggested that she had been hurt very badly by either one or more guys. Despite this though, things were going very well between us. That is until... A brief bit of history: I have an ex who I had been dating very seriously for 4 1/2 years until I ended things last July. Unlike most break ups though, she and I stayed friends. Best friends, actually. She is someone who I essentially spent the last 4 1/2 years of my life with and so virtually every story or whatever happened to me during those years involved her. As a result, I ended up talking about my ex far too much. At first, this didn't bother the new girl. But over a bit of time, it did. Now then, I will fully admit that I fell completely head over heels for this new girl in a surprisingly short period of time. Things started to get a little tense as she realized that I was still so close to my ex. I attempted to defend myself and my relationship with her as I have absolutely no attraction to her anymore but in doing so I seemed to forget how to think rationally and left out some crucial details. One of which was that my ex was seeing a guy. This would have probably made the new girl feel a bit better, but I didn't tell her about it until the tension began. By doing this, it now seemed like I was making a lame excuse that was possibly not even true. I also ended up breaking a promise to her. It was a silly promise, but she lived up to her end of it and I failed to live up to mine. Guess I was waiting for a good time to do it, but then everything hit the fan. I admit to getting extremely frustrated with her because I wanted so badly to make things work, but she closed off very quickly. I guess I was being very childish and not arguing in a mature, civil fashion, as I normally do. She stopped replying to my texts and so I eventually asked if things had ended and she said yes, she was no longer interested. We argued a bit, but to no avail. I let her know how happy she was making me which was something I hadn't felt in a very long time (the last year or so of my previous relationship, I had no romantic feelings towards my ex). She just put such an incredible smile on my face. I was hoping that by telling her this it would show that I was very much determined to do things right and make her happy. If she really had been hurt badly by previous guys then I wanted to make all of that go away by showing her that not all guys are dicks. But nothing worked. Bit more time went by and I was just sending very casual texts to her and only getting short, sporadic replies. We still occasionally sat together during lunch, continued to talk and had some great laughs. But then rational thought escaped me again and out came the texts. No reply. I sent some more, but still no reply. I figured I would make one more attempt via text to vindicate myself, but ended up rambling and saying that "life is funny. I lose the girl that makes me happy and am stuck with the one (my ex) who stresses me out more than anything". She finally replied the next day. One word, "Stop". I replied in anger saying "fine, number is being deleted. Have a good one". And that was it... We didn't talk anymore, no eye-contact. Nothing. I sent out emails to all my work friends, including her, inviting them out to various events I was dj'ing at. Still nothing. Then randomly, she approached me one day and asked if I'd be interested in attending a fundraiser for two of her friends that are getting married. She is the maid of honor and is selling tickets. Shocked by this, I stuttered a yes and bought a ticket a few days later, unsure if I was actually going to go. A few weeks before the event, a co-worker overheard the girl talking to someone else and she was asked if she had a boyfriend or was interested in anyone. The girl said no and that she wasn't looking. She had been hurt by too many guys in the past and had toyed with the idea of getting revenge of sorts. I don't know if this was serious or if she was just joking. Either way, it made me wonder if she was just playing me the whole time and only asked me about the ticket as I was an easy sale. But then I wonder, why bother asking me at all if she dislikes me. Why invite me to an event where we would see each other outside of work? It all just seemed strange. I put it in the back of my mind and eventually decided against attending the event and expressed this to her. Though a couple days later, I changed my mind after talking to her briefly about ticket sales and her saying they weren't going well for her, people will buy a ticket but then ditch. ...I didn't want to be labeled as one of those people so I went. We didn't talk at the party at all, except for a few very brief moments. As I left at the end of the night, I waved goodbye to her and she waved back, smiling. I emailed her at work the Monday after the party, thanking her for the invite and saying I had fun and hoped she did to, it certainly looked like she did. She replied saying thanks and hoped I had fun as well. I replied back but with a closed statement and am kicking myself for not leaving it open with a question for her to answer. So because of that, the silence has come back. We rarely make eye contact now and when we do, it is so brief that it doesn't register for me to try smiling at her, hoping to get a smile back. So I guess it seems like I'm being very snobbish to her, completely unintentional. But then, I get the same vibe from her. I have no idea how to read her. I'm still head over heels for her. It's kind of ridiculous actually. I probably like her so much because I can't be with her, if that makes sense. I'm finding it really hard to get over her as I see her every day at work and hear her whenever she is talking. Her voice was one of my favorite things about her, so hearing her every day presents some challenges. I want so badly to try and rekindle things and figure that if I'm going to do this then I need to get her attention again. I need to get us talking again and move into some flirting and gradually rebuild some trust...but I'm really not sure how. Or if it's even possible considering everything that has happened. ************************ Long story short, I messed up and am embarrassed with how I acted around her. It was completely out of character for me, it just seems like I can't think straight around her and make really stupid decisions. In retrospect, there were several things I could have and should have done differently. I realize my mistakes now and hope I have learned from them...I just really want to try and get her attention again but have no idea how to do it. If anything, she has helped me realize there were parts of my life that I needed to work on since last years breakup. Part of me wants to just go up to her and say "Thank you", or simply give her a "Thank you" card. She probably doesn't need to know why I'm thanking her (she likely doesn't care anyway). But, because of her, I think I've really grown in the last several months and feel like I owe her a thanks. Any advice, comments, questions, or whatever would be really appreciated. Eric Disco on "house party" http://approachanxiety.com/forum/topic.php?id=1250#post-5679 Tue, 27 Jul 2010 20:37:16 +0000 Eric Disco 5679@http://approachanxiety.com/forum/ "Did you miss me?" Eric Eric Disco on "First Day 2 Dilemma!" http://approachanxiety.com/forum/topic.php?id=1251#post-5678 Tue, 27 Jul 2010 19:58:34 +0000 Eric Disco 5678@http://approachanxiety.com/forum/ After her performance, go up and talk to her. But try not to be seen waiting around to talk to her. Talk to other people, have a drink at the bar, and then casually walk up to her when she's available. Don't sit around staring at her from afar. When you do talk to her, if you sense she's distracted, don't hang out too long. Tell her you have somewhere to be. Connect with her really quick, flirt a little, and take off. Eric Marcello on "Is it possible to get good at this WITHOUT coaching?" http://approachanxiety.com/forum/topic.php?id=1244#post-5677 Tue, 27 Jul 2010 13:31:14 +0000 Marcello 5677@http://approachanxiety.com/forum/ It seems to me that getting over the AA is actually within reach of most, albeit not all, guys provided they stick to a program of gradual approaches. Actually getting results is a different issue. I wonder how observing a natural (who's often probably doing only relatively well to start with and relying to an extent on looks, social circles etc.) in action is going to help, most of these guys are probably just doing their own thing without understanding what it's going on and as such can't offer much useful advice. Guys who are really good with women and have the analytical and teaching skills, as well the willingness of doing it are very rare. stev111 on "house party" http://approachanxiety.com/forum/topic.php?id=1250#post-5676 Tue, 27 Jul 2010 10:06:46 +0000 stev111 5676@http://approachanxiety.com/forum/ Yeah it is the one girl but I will mingle with others...just want to know exactly what you say to a girl who you have already spoken to a few times Francis on "First Day 2 Dilemma!" http://approachanxiety.com/forum/topic.php?id=1251#post-5675 Tue, 27 Jul 2010 08:57:28 +0000 Francis 5675@http://approachanxiety.com/forum/ Thanks for the replies everyone. I Loved your response Eric and very pleased you jumped in on this. I will get in contact with her and let her know I'm dropping by. You're right, she's invited me out twice and it will seem a bit flakey. <blockquote> And you probably won't come across as groupie because you aren't just going to hang around waiting for her to finish so you can hang out with her </blockquote> Please can you explain how to pull off this attitude of just dropping in and having a chat and leaving? I don't want to linger around her being needy for her attention, but I do want to chat with her for a while. How do I get some time with her when they may be Also do you recommend I invite her to Brazilian weekend event after I talk to her at her gig or text her a day later. At the moment we only text. Her number is Italian so I have not called because of costs. Also all my friends will be busy so there is no one to invite. I'm sure it will be ok going alone right? Thanks guys and will let you know what happens ;) Francis nonstop on "A recent experience at the club --Long" http://approachanxiety.com/forum/topic.php?id=1252#post-5674 Tue, 27 Jul 2010 06:42:08 +0000 nonstop 5674@http://approachanxiety.com/forum/ You did awesome. You recognized what you were feeling and began to be comfortable with it. Now it just takes repetition and practice. As for talking about "boring stuff" -- it happens, you'll get over it, or think of stuff to talk about ahead of time. As for lying to her about what you did on the weekends... you could use improvement. Realize that there's NOTHING wrong with wanting to meet women. If you want to soften it, then tell her you've been trying to check out new places and meet new people. Maybe even tell her about these new people that you took an interest in (because you're talking to guys and girls, and not only interested in their looks, right? :P ) Good job, keep it up. Also, I wouldn't dwell on this girl, go meet another one and it will put this "cutie" in perspective. I wouldn't text her until you meet someone else, but that's just me judging second-hand from the interaction. Slimm on "A recent experience at the club --Long" http://approachanxiety.com/forum/topic.php?id=1252#post-5673 Tue, 27 Jul 2010 06:05:09 +0000 Slimm 5673@http://approachanxiety.com/forum/ I wanted to review my steps and maybe get some advice... I'm in a club/bar and see this cutie. I'm real attracted to her and she's the only one I'm really paying attention to in the club. I'm standing by the hallway that leads to the restrooms. I act as if I don't see her as she walks to the bathroom, but I think she looks at me for a sec. There was a show going on and after the show the dj starts playing music and everyone in the club starts to get up from their seats. It starts to turn into more of a club atmosphere. It's not real crowded though. I know I was conscious of my body language in the club and I tried to portray confidence and comfort the whole night. I'm with two friends and they just break off and head toward the dance floor and stage area. One of my friends knows a performer and he goes to say hi. Here is where I feel anxiety building up. I am unsure of whether to follow my friends (I don't want to be a follower) or to move to the back of the club because I am now standing alone. I want to move to the back so bad because it's comfortable and right now I am uncomfortable, but I don't. I fight the urge and somehow end up on the opposite side of where I was. I am now by the front of the dance floor where my two friends are. This is also the same side the cutie is on. She's sitting behind me. I see she's by herself. She seems like my type. I can't muster the courage to talk to her. I run into my co-worker and a couple of his friends. I introduce my buddies and they end up hanging out with us. The cutie is now sitting with her friend (female). People are sprinkled on the dance floor. The cutie and her friend get up and dance not too far in front of me. My friend, we'll call him Odie , thinks the cutie's friend is hot and suggest we go get a shot and then approach them. I agree. We get the shot and come back. However, I am hesitant to approach. Odie leaves to look for my other friend so they can approach the two cuties. So I'm standing there with my co-worker's friend, we'll call her Jan. Jan's grooving to the music and I'm trying to act cool, slightly grooving to the music too. Then, the cutie's friend says something to Jan. Jan looks at me and says "she says not to be so shy". "What?" I say "she says not to be so shy" Jan repeats. Great! They can tell I'm shy! The flight response of moving to the back of the club kicked in, and I almost left but I chose to respond. With a smile I tell Jan "calling me out on being shy is making me more shy". I then turn to the cutie's friend and with a smile I say "you calling me out for being shy is making me more shy". She kinda of smiles. I also say I'm not much of a dancer, in which she responded "just pretend there's nobody here watching" I take her hand and ask her name. I next take the opportunity to exchange names with the cutie! (we'll keep calling her cutie). I then slide in between the girls and start to get my 'freak' on! I would dance facing one and then turn around and face the other. I then decided to dance facing mainly the cutie because she was the one I was into. Thankfully, Odie came by and started dancing with the other girl because I wasn't sure how long I could keep them both entertained. "You know your real cute" I say to the cutie she says "thanks" We start dancing real close. My face gets real close to her face at times, my hands are on her hips, and at other times on her back. I would look right into her eyes. I felt like we were vibing great on the dance floor. After awhile, Odie and cutie's friend go to the bar to get a drink. Cutie and I stay on the dance floor for a little while longer then take a break. We sit at a table. I think this is where I F'd up Big. I asked if she was a student, she said she was a graduate student and she tells me what she wants to do. I told her what I did for work. Then it got around to me telling her I'm a homebody. She said she was too and then asked what I did on the weekends. I got stuck. I didn't want to tell her, or anyone for that matter, I've been working on getting over my social anxiety and mainly my anxiety of meeting and talking to women. And I also didn't want to tell her I was broke so I stay home a lot. So I said "I don't want to turn you off" she said "it's ok" and now she's really waiting for an answer. So I told her that I play a lot of video games and order a lot of pizza. WoW! right? I then followed up by telling her that I've had a lot of pipe dreams. I tried to play basketball overseas, I went to film school and lived in L.A., and most recently I tried becoming a professional poker player. Then, I told her right now I'm in limbo. Our conversation wasn't really playful at all and I think I turned her off with my video games and pizza answer, not to mention I was being interviewish and I listed a bunch of failures and basically told her I was currently doing nothing. Anyways, we end up on the dance floor again and things seem to take off from where we left off. But then cutie and her friend had to leave to catch a train, so I asked if I could get her number. She hesitated for a while. I then asked if she had a boyfriend, thinking this was the reason for her hesitation. She said "I just don't know what I want from this". Man, I love her honest answer. Also, I know I fucked up because she wasn't very willing regardless of the way we danced together. I then say she can take mine in case she ever wanted to talk. And with my phone in my hand she ends up punching in her number. I dial her number so she can have it in her phone. She later confirms that she got it. Odie tells me that we're gonna walk them to the train. On the way to the train, Odie and cutie's friend are in front of us and they are hitting it off pretty good. They don't stop talking and they're making casual plans to go to a restaurant. Meanwhile, me and cutie are basically just following them listening. We mention things here and there to each other but we don't really converse. We make it to the train and say our goodbyes. The next day I am happy I got to dance with cutie and get her number. Yet I feel this pressure that I should text her. I'm not sure why. So I type up this text: "had a great time at the club... and dancing with you was kinda of cool too ;)" I get unbelievably nervous about pushing send. I end up pushing send. I get no response. after a while I check the text I sent and for some reason I only sent the last two words of my text. "too ;)" I'm thinking I should leave it at that. Any comments, suggestions or links to articles I should check out? Thanks for taking the time. -Slimm ramakandra on "First Day 2 Dilemma!" http://approachanxiety.com/forum/topic.php?id=1251#post-5672 Tue, 27 Jul 2010 03:58:12 +0000 ramakandra 5672@http://approachanxiety.com/forum/ You don't have anything to lose by showing up to the event Francis. I think go for it, let us know what it was like. On the other hand it can show your interest in her creative work, and that can be good. Perhaps other guys have turned down her request for going to the shows or whatever. Good luck. Eric Disco on "First Day 2 Dilemma!" http://approachanxiety.com/forum/topic.php?id=1251#post-5671 Tue, 27 Jul 2010 03:44:02 +0000 Eric Disco 5671@http://approachanxiety.com/forum/ Hey Francis, Interesting dilemma. My advice is this. Stop by her event. Bring a guy friend if you can. Make a showing and split right after talking to her afterward. You won't be seen as a groupie. Firstly, she's a girl, not a dude. If a guy has ten girls at his show, it will go to his head. It's not quite the same for a girl. As someone who's played in bands before, people appreciate it when you show up. It feels really good and she will appreciate you. It also gives you a chance to see her in her element and really appreciate her. I would give her a very specific compliment, if I liked her stuff. "I wasn't too into the sad, weepy songs, but the third song was amazing." If you didn't like her stuff, throw something her way like "You looked like you were having fun up there." She will be in an emotionally heightened state at her show. Just dropping in and out will leave an impression on her. You do want to be careful though. She may have a lot of people with her. She may be the center of attention and very distracted. That's why you want to drop in, talk to her for a few minutes after the show, and leave. Also consider the possibility that she may not get that many people to her show. You may be one of five people. Then she will really appreciate you. It is a slightly dicey move to see her at her gig without having gone on a date with her. But there are some up sides to it. And you probably won't come across as groupie because you aren't just going to hang around waiting for her to finish so you can hang out with her. You could cancel this and suggest another time to meet up. But this girl seems to be into and she's already put out the invitation twice. I say go for it. Eric Eric Disco on "house party" http://approachanxiety.com/forum/topic.php?id=1250#post-5670 Tue, 27 Jul 2010 03:30:55 +0000 Eric Disco 5670@http://approachanxiety.com/forum/ I don't understand your question exactly, if you're interested in this girl or want to meet other girls. If you're interested in this girl then you should talk to her some but also talk to other people at the party, including guys and girls. Then come back to her again later. It's actually in your favor that there are a lot of people you can talk to. Eric Eric Disco on "Having trouble socially..." http://approachanxiety.com/forum/topic.php?id=1248#post-5669 Tue, 27 Jul 2010 03:27:40 +0000 Eric Disco 5669@http://approachanxiety.com/forum/ You can do a few things here. Firstly, group confidence starts with individual confidence. You can't just come in and take over a group and all of a sudden be the leader. It doesn't work that way. You first want to start by building relationships with each individual within the group. Get comfortable with them one-on-one first. Then see if you can talk with two of them at the same time. Secondly, you can try asking questions instead of trying to win people over with stories. If one of the guys in the group is into mountain biking say "Hey Bob, been anywhere good mountain biking lately?" This opens up conversation for Bob but also makes you look like the cool, perceptive guy. Don't feel like you need to carry the entire conversation yourself. Get others to talk. Here is some more info in article I wrote a while back, <a href="http://approachanxiety.com/2007/04/how-to-be-the-charismatic-leader-of-any-group/">How To Be The Charismatic Leader of Any Group.</a> Eric Slimm on "First Day 2 Dilemma!" http://approachanxiety.com/forum/topic.php?id=1251#post-5668 Tue, 27 Jul 2010 03:10:05 +0000 Slimm 5668@http://approachanxiety.com/forum/ I read the link to Eric's article and all I can say is Eric Disco's articles are SICK!(NICE!). just an idea, how about you tell her you'll go only if she agrees to go with you somewhere afterward, just the two of you. Francis on "First Day 2 Dilemma!" http://approachanxiety.com/forum/topic.php?id=1251#post-5667 Mon, 26 Jul 2010 17:48:53 +0000 Francis 5667@http://approachanxiety.com/forum/ Hey guys, Yesterday I got a phone number from street approach on cute Italian busker (yeaaaah first number close!!). Conversation went well but was not as flirty as I wanted it to be. Complimented her on her happy, hippy style. I don't think I came across as flirty or sexual but did take interest in her. She enjoyed talking with me anyway. Today I text her saying it was great meeting her and chatting and ended text with an 'x'. She text back saying it was great chatting with me too and asked how I am. Her ending it with 'xxx'. We swap another text and she tells me today she was rehearsing for gig tomorrow and tonight she is going to watch her friend gig tonight. She invites me along but I respond with: "Hey E, that sounds like fun but unfortunately I'm going training tonight and tomorrow I'm meeting an old friend. But I still would love to catch up with you for a drink and another chat. What are you doing on Wednesday evening? x" I decline her offer for these reasons: 1. I keep reading, first date should be inviting her into your world not hers. I've been on a previous date with another girl where I was drawn into HER world and I came along on first meet to her weekly Salsa class. I don't like Salsa and can't dance it and she knew I was bored and felt bad and the had impact on date. 2. Eric's great article: <a href="http://approachanxiety.com/2008/04/10-rules-for-the-perfect-first-date/" rel="nofollow">http://approachanxiety.com/2008/04/10-rules-for-the-perfect-first-date/</a> The thing is her friends will be there. They are not close friends as she's here alone for a month or so, so they are gig mates she met while here I assume. To be honest I am not sure if it's a date in her mind, but I don't think she's stupid as to why I'm asking her out, right? I have tried to refrain from being too friendly in texts and made it clear when I got her number that I enjoyed our conversation and would love to meet again. But whether she knows or not I intend NOT to make our meeting 'friendly' but more flirty and see what happens. I'm not so bothered if she rejects that, I just want to try, but I need it just to be me and her. My problem is now she's text back saying she's doing a gig on Wednesday in a pub and is inviting me!!! I feel I've dropped myself in it a bit of a mess now because it was clear I was free for Wednesday but now I don't want to meet her on that night because it's: 1. With her friends or gig mates (possibly) 2. Loud environment 3. No real control over the environment I'm afraid I'm just going to be coming along as a male 'groupie' into her world as friend watching her gig and meeting her friends. What do I do? Do I go along and still ask her out another time? Do I come up with something else and say actually I'm busy that night? My plan was an initial drinks meet on Wednesday and then invite her to a Brazilian day festival/carnival on Saturday to come into MY world and meet my friend! Cheers Francis stev111 on "house party" http://approachanxiety.com/forum/topic.php?id=1250#post-5666 Mon, 26 Jul 2010 11:01:25 +0000 stev111 5666@http://approachanxiety.com/forum/ This girl is holding a house party and invited along a girl who I am interested in. Of course we have spoken before and defo feel she is interested in me. The problem is I feel I will get more out of girls who I don't know rather than girls who I have already spoken to because what do I say and how do I game her? steven graphyte on "New York City PUA House: 1 more roommate needed!" http://approachanxiety.com/forum/topic.php?id=1249#post-5665 Mon, 26 Jul 2010 00:43:32 +0000 graphyte 5665@http://approachanxiety.com/forum/ Hey guys, So here’s the deal…Justice and I are starting a “PUA house” in Manhattan and we have one more room available for rent in our apartment. The apartment will be available starting August 1, 2010, and is located in the UWS near Columbia University. It is a spacious duplex, which we plan on redecorating once we are all moved in. It is also located very close to the college bars and subway line. Oh, and the rent is dirt cheap for a Manhattan apartment. So just to give you a little background on Justice and I, we have been sarging together for a few months now and we are very committed to getting very good at pick-up. We do day game as well as night game and we try to push ourselves as much as possible. We are both alumni from the ABCs of Attraction Bootcamp. The ideal roommate we are looking for: 1) Demonstrates a commitment to doing both day game, and night game. 2) Must be willing to sarge on weekends, and sometimes weekdays after work. 3) Must have a job with sufficient income, and pays rent on time. 4) Should be fun, and must at least have some social skills / pick up skills. 5) Preferably has already taken a Boot Camp. 6) Also a clean individual, as we are also looking to completely renovate/decorate/organize our apartment in a way that is very conducive towards pickup. Definitely not gonna be fucking around, guys! Please PM me if you are interested in becoming our third roommate. We will most likely meet with you, and sarge with you to see how compatible we are. We currently have one potential candidate who remains tentative about joining us, so please act quickly! Remember move-in date is August 1, 2010 but we can be flexible if you need to move in later. Thanks all, we look forward to hearing from you soon! -G nathanzzz on "Having trouble socially..." http://approachanxiety.com/forum/topic.php?id=1248#post-5664 Sun, 25 Jul 2010 18:31:51 +0000 nathanzzz 5664@http://approachanxiety.com/forum/ I've always been pretty social, can be fairly outgoing etc. But I've been getting discouraged lately at social weaknesses I've noticed that I have. First of all, in large social groups I hardly ever have anything to add. I think this is because I never feel confident telling stories. I never know what experience to talk about, and when I think of one, I can never tell it well enough to hold anyone's attention for long. It sucks because I just end up standing there looking like an idiot. Secondly, at times I don't feel like I'm having as much fun as others in the group. And I lose energy fast a lot of the time, like small talk tires me out. I know I'm definitely an introvert, but it doesn't help my situation. The weird thing is, from the outside I don't seem like an introvert because I CAN carry small talk somewhat and be dynamic. But internally I feel myself putting so much effort into being social that it's not as enjoyable. I envy those around me who can effortlessly talk about anything when for me it takes so much out of me... What do I need to do to become a "natural" ? Eric Disco on "He confidence issue" http://approachanxiety.com/forum/topic.php?id=1247#post-5663 Sun, 25 Jul 2010 03:56:14 +0000 Eric Disco 5663@http://approachanxiety.com/forum/ I don't really know why you said that you lost her number. That move doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Did you do that because you got annoyed because she's into someone else? It's actually good that you found this out, especially after asking if you should be "genuine with her because she's in a delicate place." My basic assumption when I meet a woman or when I start seeing her is that she is seeing two other guys but that those guys don't have anywhere near the same game as me. That assumption is important to me because, firstly, you don't want to take it easy on this girl and put on the kid gloves if she's dating other guys. You start blabbing your eternal love for her and she gets bored and starts seeing one of her other guys. At the same time, I assume those guys don't have anywhere near as good game as me. And they probably don't. I don't want to get insecure and start to overgame and be too harsh with her. But I do want to keep it interesting and keep her on her toes. From here you could go either way with this. It might look a little lame to text her now if you said you lost her number. But too much time might elapse if you wait until you see her next. I go along with nonstop on this and say text her. But don't give this chick an inch of leeway on the grounds that she's insecure. On the contrary, that just means you have to be more on your toes. Eric nonstop on "He confidence issue" http://approachanxiety.com/forum/topic.php?id=1247#post-5662 Sat, 24 Jul 2010 22:00:50 +0000 nonstop 5662@http://approachanxiety.com/forum/ If you leave it up to her, she probably won't do it. It sounds like she's looking for approval a lot etc from how you've described the situation above, and it also sounds like she has too many "options" and not enough direction. You know she likes you enough to make out, and she still continues to talk about you as being above her to your friend(not really a bad thing, if you can make yourself seem obtainable). If you want her, take the risk and show her while still remaining the confident-not-overly-validating guy you have been. If a woman has to "man-up" and contact you to set a date, that's not really something she wants to do, or that she should do (depending on your beliefs). It's up to you, but I think if you leave it up to her, you are coping out, showing your lack of confidence. Also... don't peg too much value in what she says as opposed to what she does. She thinks you're "too flashy"... but then already made out with you, so obviously there's a bit of a disconnect there. Sooot on "He confidence issue" http://approachanxiety.com/forum/topic.php?id=1247#post-5661 Sat, 24 Jul 2010 21:10:46 +0000 Sooot 5661@http://approachanxiety.com/forum/ Ok thanks Eric...a mutual friend was talking to her and he asked her like how did she like hooking up with me...and she said it was nice...but somehow turned the conversation to talking about some other guy she wants to hook up with...I've met the guy and I know she can do alot better ( i guess that's eternally up to her in the end lol)and she probably is only messing with him to feel good about herself...she keeps telling the mutual that I'm too flashy with the conotation that he'd never go for me...so I told him to just tell her that I lost her number so she should text me....she said ok a day or two ago...but I haven't heard from her...what should I do at this point? Play it cool and hope that I see her at another venue...or should I just take a chance get her number from our mutual friend and just start texting her Eric Disco on "He confidence issue" http://approachanxiety.com/forum/topic.php?id=1247#post-5660 Sat, 24 Jul 2010 17:17:47 +0000 Eric Disco 5660@http://approachanxiety.com/forum/ <blockquote>she kissed me and asked if or why I wasn't hooking up with her other friend . I didn't wanna say because "I wanna to hook up with you" I just said "I just didn't wanna hook up with her" </blockquote> Good. Perfect response. <blockquote>...anyway it's obvious that she is at least a little self conscious because she kissed me and was like "you're handsome and there are plenty of other girls here that you should hook up with" i tried to tell her that I think she's pretty but i think she's really skeptical about it... </blockquote> Whenever a girl presents an insecure side of herself like this or if she's fishing for a compliment, I always throw it back in her face--jokingly of course. I do this even if she's a bit insecure. In this situation, I would have said something like "Really?" and looked around the room. "Wow, there are a lot of hot girls here. I'll see you in a little while." And pretended to be about to leave and talk to some hot girls. Then maybe pulled her back in and smacked her on the ass. This is a lot better than answering her probe directly and saying "No, I don't want to hook up with these girls," or "No, I only want you." Firstly, you don't want to play into her insecurity. It will only foster more insecurity and more stupid questions like this from her. She doesn't want to feel insecure and it's your job to quash anything like this by indirectly telling her confidently and playfully to shut the fuck up every time she brings something like this up. Secondly, by joking about it, you are reassuring her even more that you like her--in a way that doesn't cater to her ego--than if you tell her directly that you do like her. Picture this situation. You are at a bar with her alone and she spills a drink. You could say "Oh, that's okay, don't worry about it." Or you could joke with her and say "Oh man, I can't take you anywhere!" By joking about it you are telling her *emotionally* that everything is okay. She knows it truly is okay because of your humor. If you just say verbally "It's okay," you may still be annoyed at her on the inside. She is reading your emotions and your emotional state and taking your humor as it truly being okay. <blockquote>should I be genuine about how i get at her since she's in a delicate place in her life </blockquote> Absolutely not. Never play soft ball with a girl because you feel like she's vulnerable. In fact, this means you need to show even more confidence and dominance in order to get her to a place where she's comfortable with you. By taking it easy on her or not playing your A-Game, you are communicating weakness to her. That does not make her trust you more. <blockquote> or should i just play the mind games like not answering txts right away or canceling on confirmed dates? </blockquote> Yes. I don't like the word "mindgames" here because that puts a very negative connotation on what really is just social calibration. If you meet a new guy friend and decide not to call him 3 times a day and instead be more chill and hang with him once a week, is that play "mindgames"? You should continue to do whatever you normally do with most women. You should continue to give her space, make her wonder about you and be mysterious. In fact, as stated above, you need to do this even more with this girl. It's not time to crumble and "have no game" because it seems like she wouldn't go for that type of guy. Even if a woman knows the ins and outs of game, even if she's read every piece of pickup literature, game still works on her. If I'm dating a girl and she uses some of the tactics I use, it still works on me. It still makes me want her. And in a lot of cases I'm glad of that. Six months ago I was dating a girl that actually teaches pickup to other guys. She knew this stuff as well as I did. But we still bantered and flirted with each other, we still kept the mystery alive, and still demonstrated our independence from each other. And that kept things sexy and interesting. When we bantered with each other we still both enjoyed it because we were both playing and having fun with it. Try not to think of "game" as something you're doing to trick her or something you're doing without her knowledge. Most women know game to a certain extent and know some of these tactics but still enjoy when men use these tactics on them. They love being with a guy who has game. That being said, I feel like not returning texts or canceling on dates is a bit harsher tactic than you need with this girl. She's into you. She's putting herself out there. You don't really need to fuck with her that much. Unless you are sensing some flakiness from her, you can use more gentle tactics than actually canceling dates. Remember good game is about calibration, not about all-or-nothing hardball tactics. So those tactics might be varying the amount of time it takes for you to return texts or using shorter text responses. Keep gaming this girl, don't fold all your cards and put them on the table. But understand when and where she's putting herself out there and don't always use the harshest tactics possible. Eric Sooot on "He confidence issue" http://approachanxiety.com/forum/topic.php?id=1247#post-5659 Sat, 24 Jul 2010 04:15:29 +0000 Sooot 5659@http://approachanxiety.com/forum/ So I get an invite to this party the other day. It's a chick, I've met a few times, bday party. So I tell the guy who invited me that I didn't wanna go because the chick who's bday it was always seemed to be vague and highly disinterested in me. He went on to tell me that girl recently broke up with her boyfriend who in turn made her start to feel very self conscious. So a mutual friend was talking to her and my name came up and the fact that when I first saw her I found her to be really cute. So turns out the girl actually thought the same about me. So the invite guy is like ill put in a good word and that I should make my move at the party. So we get to the party and I get quite a exuberant greeting...she yelled my name was all like wow I'm glad you came...gave me a huge hug...it was nice...over the course of the night she would continually get close and ask if I was having fun and what not. Then at some point (had a few beers at this point so it's kinda hard to remember exact details) we were talking and she said something about a kiss and kissed me right on the mouth and then smiled afterwards...over the night I planted a few more kisses and even got some tongue action...so again at some point I got with her and exchanged numbers...so i analyzed the night from what i could remember and i noticed little tidbits like when i was talking to someone about one of my exs...and it came up that she was hispanic...she (being hispanic) asked if i only dated hispanic girls...i said no i date all types :)...soon after that she kissed me and asked if or why I wasn't hooking up with her other friend . I didn't wanna say because "I wanna to hook up with you" I just said "I just didn't wanna hook up with her"...anyway it's obvious that she is at least a little self conscious because she kissed me and was like "you're handsome and there are plenty of other girls here that you should hook up with" i tried to tell her that I think she's pretty but i think she's really skeptical about it...so my question to whoever can answer it is.... How should I go about this? Since she's self conscious I have a feeling that she probably won't take initiative to text me so should i text her?... And if I should what should I say...should I be genuine about how i get at her since she's in a delicate place in her life or should i just play the mind games like not answering txts right away or canceling on confirmed dates?I would normally do the latter but I don't know because she already kinda sees me as "he wouldn't go for me type of guy" swgr on "little dilemma" http://approachanxiety.com/forum/topic.php?id=1246#post-5658 Fri, 23 Jul 2010 02:50:35 +0000 swgr 5658@http://approachanxiety.com/forum/ Great input man. Thanks Eric Disco on "Is it possible to get good at this WITHOUT coaching?" http://approachanxiety.com/forum/topic.php?id=1244#post-5657 Thu, 22 Jul 2010 20:50:58 +0000 Eric Disco 5657@http://approachanxiety.com/forum/ I do know people who have gotten good without coaches. My good friend <a href="http://www.theawakenedlifestyle.com/">John Keegan, dating coach extraordinaire</a>, is one of them. He never had coaching of any kind and taught himself to be great just by reading and practicing. But he's more of an exception. Aside from naturals, most of the other guys I know who are great with women did get some kind of coaching. And if they didn't get any coaching, they usually had some kind of friends who were naturals whom they learned from. There's a lot of good reasons to get coaching. But you can make progress on your own. My recommendation to you would be to seek out guys who are better than yourself to work with if you can't find coaching, whether those guys are naturals or in the community. Eric Eric Disco on "But I am Leaving..." http://approachanxiety.com/forum/topic.php?id=1245#post-5656 Thu, 22 Jul 2010 20:40:59 +0000 Eric Disco 5656@http://approachanxiety.com/forum/ I say go for it. But I would be cautious to make too many promises. You haven't really gotten involved with her yet. To be honest you seem like you talked about a lot of relationship stuff without even a single date. You could just have fun with her. In fact, <a href="http://approachanxiety.com/start-all-relationships-casual/">I've written before</a> about why you should start all relationships casual. You're thinking this through a lot before there is even anything on the ground. Go out with her first. Get to know her, both as a person and physically. Then decide if you think it's good to stay involved in a long distance relationship or just enjoy each other for now. Nothing lasts forever anyway, so you might as well enjoy yourself. Eric Eric Disco on "little dilemma" http://approachanxiety.com/forum/topic.php?id=1246#post-5655 Thu, 22 Jul 2010 20:32:12 +0000 Eric Disco 5655@http://approachanxiety.com/forum/ With a shy girl you probably just want to be a little bit more chill. Don't steamroll her with banter. Joke around once in a while but get her to talk about herself a lot. An interaction is like a roller-coaster ride where the top of the ride is the shallow, fun, playful part and the bottom is the deep, connecting intense part. You'll move and flow between deep/connecting and shallow/playful. You want to be able to stay present and really connect with her when you are connecting without joking around too much. You want to lead her to that place of intensity. And then after a while you can come out of that and start joking and being playful again. <blockquote>Do you think the shyer the girl the more high energy both the environment and I have to be?</blockquote> No. You usually don't need to adjust the environment for the girl, particularly on the first date. If after seeing the girl for a while it seems like she's itching to go out and do something more fun (or you are), then go for it. But I would not use it as a tool to 'force' her to be more fun unless you're getting bored with her. <blockquote>What if the girl initiates the interaction really high energy and I can't keep up and start noticing it REALLY starts to go down; can you show me an example where I can get her pumped up or challenge her without banter?</blockquote> Feeling like you can't keep up is a symptom of not knowing what banter is. You're not competing with her. You're adding to her energy. You're playing along with her. Whatever she's giving to you, you go with it. Ways to challenge her without banter: disagree with something she says. Usually this is something small. You're not disagreeing with her take on life. You can give her less attention and see how she reacts to that. Make her work to get back your attention. You can qualify her. This is checking to see what she has going on in her life to see if she measures up. (See <a href="http://approachanxiety.com/how-to-get-her-to-chase-you/">How to Get Her Chasing You</a> for more on that.) <blockquote>She asks me about my relationship with my parents even though my relationship with my dad isn't good..how can I turn that into something more playful without getting too deep into that? </blockquote> It depends where you are in the interaction whether you want to banter it off or not. If you're at a point where you're really building a connection, you may not want to joke right now. You may want to deflect that question in some way. You could say "I don't really want to talk about that right now." That will get her even more curious. You'll be mysterious to her. That's really sexy. You could simply change the topic of conversation. You could joke for a moment and then move on. Eric adonis_boy on "But I am Leaving..." http://approachanxiety.com/forum/topic.php?id=1245#post-5654 Thu, 22 Jul 2010 18:42:51 +0000 adonis_boy 5654@http://approachanxiety.com/forum/ Hello Eric. Thank you for the reply. It means that I did not ask her out to a date yet. Yes, we hanged out on holiday for a few hours but they were just a hang out, spending time together at the same place. Not a serious date where I could escalate and get to know her better. We will be 2 hours away, by plane. I am asking this question to myself: Should I let it go or try dating her until I leave? I would like to hear advice on how you would answer such a question in my situation. swgr on "little dilemma" http://approachanxiety.com/forum/topic.php?id=1246#post-5653 Thu, 22 Jul 2010 18:26:24 +0000 swgr 5653@http://approachanxiety.com/forum/ Thanks for the advice Eric. I can see your point about how every woman should be bantered at a different level. Do you think the shyer the girl the more high energy both the environment and I have to be? What if the girl initiates the interaction really high energy and I can't keep up and start noticing it REALLY starts to go down; can you show me an example where I can get her pumped up or challenge her without banter? i.e. she asks me about my relationship with my parents even though my relationship with my dad isn't good..how can I turn that into something more playful without getting too deep into that?