What it’s like to be an Attractive Woman

by Eric Disco
Dec 15

deseo-one.deviantart.com3There’s been a lot of discussion in the comments on this site about what it’s like to be an attractive woman.

It’s been said that they can get away with whatever they want.

There’s an excellent post on reddit.com where someone asks a similar question.

A self described “hot girl” gives a lengthy answer.

Whether you empathize with what she wrote is a moot point.

It’s still a really interesting read about what it’s like for her.

_____________________

An honest answer, whether or not you want to believe me.

I am a “hot chick”.

I will not do anything to verify this, as I am a private person and the only real way would be to post pictures.

Your questions answered, specifically-

Do people treat you differently?

Yes, they treat me like they want to fuck me. It’s okay. Sometimes it grosses me out. Sometimes it is flattering.

I know this is horrible but I get offended if a guy DOESN’T check me out. It’s all just a game of biology, and I’m a good specimen for breeding.

What kind of problems do you face?

You face people giving you attention you don’t want.

That sounds like no big deal unless you realize that about half the human population has weird relationship/personal space issues and it means that men make weird comments, even your relatives and your friends.

It means that you’re never allowed to forget what you look like, and that it is important that you do not change.

The first words out of my dad’s mouth when I see him are whether or not I look like I’ve been working out daily.

deseo-one.deviantart.com4Intelligent hot chicks, and if they exist- They do. But they’ve learned to hide it.

People will hate you for being attractive, unless they feel they are smarter than you.

Then they feel better because they have a reason to look down on you.

If you let on that you can compete mentally, then they really dislike you, to the point of pure mean-girl sort of stuff.

Sometimes, if you do try to contribute on any level, people dismiss you immediately. Or they decide they want to try to fuck you more than before.

What it comes down to is that it is less about how attractive you are, and more about how others around you perceive it.

I think that one thing very attractive girls never feel is really accepted.

Because you’re always trying to self-depreciate in one way or another, to make yourself seem less of a threat to other girls, less attractive to those you don’t want to be attractive to, etc.

Is it worse, or better than being average? I’m not sure.

I don’t know who I would be without it, but at the same time, I wonder if anyone around me would like me if I didn’t look this way.

I find no joy in eating, in fact, I secretly hate food. I wish I could have a healthier relationship with it.

I don’t know anyone who is attractive who isn’t hypercritical of themselves naked.

This includes during sex.

It took me years to learn to relax and that the guy wasn’t like “LOOK AT THAT FRECKLE ON HER ASSCHEEK HOW WEIRD”.

I’ve had more than a decade to deal with these things, and sometimes I feel like I am behind other people because I relied on my looks for so long.

I am petrified of getting old and unattractive. That’s a big thing I am working through in therapy right now.

I have moments now where someone comments on my looks and it hits me the wrong way where I have a panicky feeling like I am losing my balance, or am not in control, but those are becoming fewer and far between.

Ironically enough, I look better now than I ever have, and it’s from finally figuring out who I am as a person.

It was just so easy to avoid doing that for so long and still being able to get a positive reaction from the rest of the world.

Any popularity I gained along the way was only a result of people noticing me for the wrong reasons.

deseo-one.deviantart.com6I’ve always been very self-contained, did not do the sorority thing like the rest of my friends, do not have facebook, do not do internet dating, do not go out very much.

I try to get out of the house, but I’m really a homebody.

I go to work, but I don’t take seriously anyone who hits on me at work, especially in front of coworkers.

Or even worse, my boss.

I really only trust talking to guys who I meet through mutual interests. It doesn’t always have to happen this way, but it’s nice to know that you have things in common.

I know this wouldn’t seem like a bad thing to guys, but I’ve been scarred repeatedly by sleeping with someone I thought I could trust and then having them brag to the whole world.

The sex thing is like this- I think I trust a guy, he acts like he cares about me too, we have sex, the next day I learn from twelve people (who call me to tell me, because I totally need to know sarcasm) that he texted his closest group of twenty friends to let them all know he finally fucked me.

And that everyone we know knows, and that everyone I don’t even know yet knows.

And that people already have their opinions on it, and anyone who thinks I’m a threat calls me a slut, and anyone who has previously tried to fuck me and I didn’t let them calls me a slut, and everyone else is like AWESOME MAN WAY TO GO like I am only worth being used for one thing, and that is getting a nut and then having it publicized.

It makes you feel like a piece of meat and like you don’t deserve anything out of life but being used.

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been betrayed with that sort of thing. How many times I cried over it, and how long it took me to regain the courage to try again with someone new.

That part always really, really hurt.

deseo-one.deviantart.com5It lets you have very unhealthy romantic relationships. It’s easy to ignore all other aspects and base it only off how you look.

It’s easy to not learn how to be a good person, or how to treat people the right way. It’s easy to end up alone.

It’s easy to expect help from strangers for no reason.

But dealing with rejection, if these things don’t happen the way you want them to, is really, really hard.

I guess it’s just hard to face reality when you are used to not having to.

I actually tend to go for really smart guys. My dad is a physicist, and he’s one of the only men I trust, and I think it rubs off on who I am attracted to.

I also don’t like guys that are too “hot”- because (I only just now realize how fucked up this is) I like to know that they will always think I am good looking, and part of how I can secure that is to know that I am at least marginally better looking than them.

My current boyfriend judges me for every word, every action, and every little thing that I do. I love him immensely for it.

He’s made me a better person, and more of the person I wanted to be just by making me realize I am accountable for myself and how my life goes.

I fell in love with him because he wouldn’t tolerate bullshit, no matter what I looked like. I really credit him for so much of the change.

Of course, I had to actually institute that change, so I take credit for that. I think many people start to change around the age of 25, anyway.

Maybe it was all a part of that. He makes me act like a decent human being, which is a nice change from most people.

He won’t let me get away with nonsense.

-----------------

posted in The Way Girls Think

COMMENTS
71 responses
S.B. says:

This shows the importance of negs, disqualifying yourself and ignoring your target at first. The hot are also begging for someone to call them out on all their BS. Basically, girls like this have been placed on a pedestal by themselves and all the men around them; if you can knock her off that pedestal it’ll get her attention in a big way.

S.B. says:

*The hot ones

KL says:

This is certainly ONE hot girl’s experience. I have no doubt it is genuine and from the heart. I hope she can overcome some of this pain in her life, and continue to find her happiness.

But there are many millions of hot girls in the world who are much better adjusted with their bodies and with themselves, and have not experienced this much pain.

She mentioned being branded a “slut” and made into a piece of meat or a prize by her social circle. This is definitely a problem in the culture, and we see it nowadays in high schools from girls who fear competition and guys who fear rejection. In more traditionally sex-positive societies I don’t think this is as much of a problem (they have their own problems of course).

My position would be simple: if these assholes are calling you a slut and treating you like a subhuman trophy, how about moving on and getting some new friends?

“I don’t know anyone who is attractive who isn’t hypercritical of themselves naked.”

This is pretty much universal to the female gender. Some more than others, as I said. But does she really think average or homely women are not hyper self-critical? I mean, come on.

We all have complexes. In the contest of “issues,” I’ll put a virgin guy with no social skills, no confidence and who yearns to just have the courage to say hi to a girl against her any day of the week.

Bottom line: this is a great reminder that hot girls are real human beings trying to get by, with emotions and feelings. It allows us guys who are so easily bamboozled by beauty to not put them on a pedestal and to relate to them more confidently (like her boyfriend).

Everybody should read this, and maybe we can all have more genuine connections with each other. Great find, Eric.

cunical optimist says:

Isnt it exactly what society has imposed through mass media advertising etc, she hot therefore she couldnt be intellignet, charming and a good person……

Cameron says:

I thought this was a great article.

I thought her story was very moving, it just goes to show that “hot” women are people too and that the ladies love a man with backbone.

Cameron

John says:

Psh. I don’t take anything I read on the innernet too seriously or at face value. It’s sounds a bit too much like the things we want to believe about the beautiful lonely woman who’s been shafted.

I did recently have the opportunity to glimpse life as a beauty though. I was meeting an old work friend somewhere for lunch and when we got there, there was another old coworker there sitting very near where we were seated. She would be a soild 8 on most’s scale. Our orientation was her and I seated on a long bench against a wall with about a foot and a half of space between us, so I pretty much had her perspective.

Every frickin’ guy walking about the place would eyeball her. Every. One.

Age, ethnicity, fashion sense, every guy, it didn’t matter. It was enlightening.

This occurred in SE Michigan, so 8′s and above are rarer than other parts of the nation. Not like unicorn rare, more like snow leopard rare. Photographs of snow leopards exist and some are suitable for framing, same with attractive women in rust belt areas hit had by the recession.

Rham says:

What really does strike me is the amount of posts on the reddit thread that show how much hot girls really get away with things and how much they really get hit on.

So many PUA’s say that hot women really do not get hit on. Well if we believe what we are reading is true, then this is not true.

This then also puts to bed the story of the “hot woman that cannot find dates.” We all know that is a bunch of crap and then proves that hot women have far more power than we can ever realize. The only hot women that cannot find dates are the truly overly picky. They will only date the genetically endowed or the fiscally powerful and wait for them accordingly.

They are in control. Game is a myth.

Nonstop says:

Lol Rham… still hating the game.
Saying that these hot women have the “power” because they have a lot of options is ridiculous. It would be like me telling you: “you’re in control of your dating life because you can easily get a date with any woman fatter, uglier, etc”

There’s very little pride or satisfaction from settling for less, so don’t pretend that these women have it easy with so many crappy options available.

Make sure you tell the next hot woman you see that she’s in control when you ask her why she’s not dating Brad Pitt right now.

Cameron says:

“So many PUA’s say that hot women really do not get hit on. Well if we believe what we are reading is true, then this is not true.”

Actually Rham I honestly think this is true, depending on your definition of “hit on”, if you mean getting eye fucked then hot women get hit on ALL the time.

But if you mean someone going up to them and genuinely expressing to them a desire to get to know them, and to have sex with them. Then I think hot women don’t get hit on as often as we would believe.

Eric Disco says:

What really does strike me is the amount of posts on the reddit thread that show how much hot girls really get away with things and how much they really get hit on. [...]

They are in control. Game is a myth.

It’s actually the exact opposite. “Game” exploits the fact that whenever a guy gets around a very attractive woman, he turns into a suck-up. These women are so used to men kissing their ass, that when a guy has even one ounce of game, the girl’s reality as princess of the universe is shattered.

She writes:

It’s easy to expect help from strangers for no reason. But dealing with rejection, if these things don’t happen the way you want them to, is really, really hard. I guess it’s just hard to face reality when you are used to not having to.

Much of “game” can be understood as active disinterest. The guy who can bust on a girl like this, presents a shift in her world, something she’s not used to seeing. Her current boyfriend is one who doesn’t take her shit, who judges her and holds her accountable.

Eric

Mark02 says:

I have to say, I don’t sympathize with her too much. I can see where she’s coming from, but she’s clearly caught up too much in her looks and how everyone perceives them…at least she recognizes that.

But are there “hot” or “cute” girls out there who aren’t screwed up or have issues–girls that are actually humble? Or are they all like this? Do I have to settle for a girl I’m not attracted to if I don’t want to deal with bitchiness?

Cameron says:

Godamnit Mark! Have you no soul! What about the bit where she really really liked a guy and then they had sex and then he told everyone he never really liked her and just wanted to nail her! Thats horrible!

And shes not being arrogant when she says shes hot, its like a tall guy saying hes tall, she knows shes hot. Theres nothing wrong with that.

Glock says:

And I personally, feel for that girl, because in some sense, society did to her the same thing it did to me.It put some illusions into here head that made here very miserable because she believed in them and in the end they didn’t work(good looks make her life easy). Just like when i believed that by being presents and being a good friend i can get girls.

Jake says:

This is just like some of the beautiful young ladies that I know in my social circle. They constantly complain how their husbands or boyfriends are never around (due to their having to work so much) but really love the money these guys make. Same with two attractive women that only sleep with married guys. They get attached to them emotionally then they get upset when these guys will not leave their wives or suddenly break up with them and tell them something trivial like “I am concerned about this and might affect my children.” They know full well what they are getting into. They should have seen the sign.

This young lady is hot. That is totally great. But I bet you that she dates hot guys and power type guys that would break her heart in a second and never once looks that the warning signs. A guy that might not be her “type” that could be trust worthy I guarantee she shuns. “Hes boring” “Hes not exciting” “He is an inch shorter than me and I love to wear heels” “He does not have dark hair.” You know the type. Give me a break.

And then her heart is broken again by Mr. Hotstuff. I guarantee she will have this happen to her again OR she will have such a lack of trust (which she indicates in the thread) that she will turn into a total head case and date even worse losers.

No I have not sympathy for her. This is not the Oprah show.

Cameron says:

Yeh, what a bitch for dating guys shes actually attracted to right?

KL says:

“No I have not sympathy for her. This is not the Oprah show.”

Haha, well that’s one way of putting it. The issue of hotness/ attractiveness applies to men, too: why delay and wait to find a woman who is physically attractive to you and mentally compatible when you can just have one or the other, right now? I mean, you could have a bimbo hooker (hot, but no brains), or an ugly girl that you connect with emotionally–simple, right?

I don’t see anything wrong with wanting to be with someone you really like. I do agree that many women are very narrow-minded in their “preferences.” As in, “I’m only interested in a guy who is 6 foot 5, with a brown ponytail, and a French accent.” That kind of thing.

But I don’t see anything wrong with focusing on guys or girls one is really attracted to at the beginning, to see if there is a deeper connection there later in the relationship. That’s what we’re all doing anyway, isn’t it?

Glock says:

It seems, lots of dudes here are jealous about that woman even when she said that she has problems.
Only thing i can say about this:
U jelly?
U mad?

Jake says:

You are right. There is absolutely nothing wrong with anyone dating who they are attracted too. Hell that is why we are on here to date women we are attracted too I would assume right?

My thing is that so many women tell these tales about “woe is me. I am dating jerks and they never are good to me but they are just so hot and I feel so good around them at times but they then cheat on me.” There are also people that eat horrible food and gain tons of weight and complain that they just dont look as good as they use too…you know?

This is the same thing here with this young lady and tons of other hot women out there. They date jerks. Women love jerks. Lets face it. Especially good looking jerks but there is a cost to it. Her cost is trust. This young lady’s thread proves that in spades.

This is I do not believe that game can work. At least from what I have seen. I mean these kind of chicks are going to date good looking guys on the percentage no matter what you do. How is game going to change that? Women will not necessarily date ugly jerks, but they will good looking jerks. Why? Because they are attracted to them and the jerks know they can get away with the cheating and stuff.

KL says:

“Women love jerks. Lets face it.”

Nope. Common myth.

Women love confidence. The jerks are the only guys with confidence. That’s why they date the jerks. The nice guys are left thinking “gee, why won’t she go out with me, I would be much nicer to her.” Well, she won’t go out with him because he isn’t confident and sexual. But the jerk is. So there you go.

Who would you rather date, a smoking hot chick who is high maintenance and always tearing you down, or an ugly chick with a sweet personality?

Sure, you would probably go for the ugly sweet chick now and then, just for a confidence boost if nothing else. But at the end of the day, you’ll go for the bitchy hot chick. Because being hot is more important to most men than being sweet. Men have their priorities, women have theirs.

If nice guys can get confident, ballsy and sexual, while still being nice and honest and respectful, they would have all the women in the world. Because then women would be able to have their cake and eat it too. They wouldn’t have to go with the jerks.

But alas, every nice guy just pouts in the corner and tells himself “they only like jerks.” Too bad.

Cameron says:

I think your exacytly right KL.

Nona Mills says:

“No I have not sympathy for her. This is not the Oprah show.” Haha, well that’s one way of putting it. The issue of hotness/ attractiveness applies to men, too: why delay and wait to find a woman who is physically attractive to you and mentally compatible when you can just have one or the other, right now? I mean, you could have a bimbo hooker (hot, but no brains), or an ugly girl that you connect with emotionally–simple, right? I don’t see anything wrong with wanting to be with someone you really like. I do agree that many women are very narrow-minded in their “preferences.” As in, “I’m only interested in a guy who is 6 foot 5, with a brown ponytail, and a French accent.” That kind of thing. But I don’t see anything wrong with focusing on guys or girls one is really attracted to at the beginning, to see if there is a deeper connection there later in the relationship. That’s what we’re all doing anyway, isn’t it?

Cameron says:

I agree Nona.

And by the way:

“I’m only interested in a guy who is 6 foot 5, with a brown ponytail, and a French accent.”

I’ve never met a girl who was anywherenear this fussy.

KL says:

Cameron, you do realize “Nona” is a spam right? Just take a look 5 comments above hers ;)

What am I, chopped liver??

But yeah, most girls aren’t that fussy. Which should be a boost for guys, if they would just seize the opportunities (and I include myself in that category).

Rham says:

I have known quite a number of girls and young ladies that are pretty fussy. They will not date guys that are not 6ft tall, or have a full head of hair, make so much and a combination of all that together.

Ever read some of the profiles on match.com or plenty of fish as examples? I would say 9 out of 10 of them from a single hot 25 year old to some 40 year old that is thirty pounds overweight and has three kids from three different fathers are looking for “Mr. Exactly” as I call it. Has to be this, that and they will not respond if you are not. Why? I have tried countless times.

I have found this in real world too. I go after what I want and never get it. I am always not what they want. Hey I try but I get nowhere.

SadAsHell says:

This girls article is really actually quite sad. She is quite sad. As much as she seems to have as she ages realized that she is the person that must be in charge of her own mental and emotional well being she is still validating this through her own self-proclaimed judgments of her by her boyfriend.

I know she will never see or read this but that is really sad and hypocritical. She talks about validation in this article in some way, talks about how pretty people judge themselves very critically when they are naked as though ugly or average people don’t do this at all. While she does not openly say that it is sad to see that the overtone of that is just plastered all over her statements.

It makes me a bit happier that she is at least trying to understand herself better and the other people around her, and in some ways I have a very very tiny amount of sympathy for her and believe me it is tiny. I don’t do sympathy normally at all but she really seems like she has a better understanding of herself even if mislead than other so-called “hot” girls. At least her BF does challenge her in a way that is pushing her to be a better person. But how good can you really be if you still need someone else to do this for you or at least be your platform for that change.

The only thing that truly matters is how we view ourselves. There will always be those that see us for real but most no matter how hard we try will only ever see you in their own way. Love thy self. That is all that truly matters. If you cannot do that you have no chance of giving honest love and affection to others.

I find that the word Hot and beautiful are often used as the same thing, howver to me that is a lie. I see those two words like this and only like this:

Hot: a girls/guys body only, head to toe how they look and only how they look. And yes I am very secure in my sexuality and have no problem looking at guys as well as girls and finding them attractive even if I am not homosexual.

Beautiful: In this order: the heart(soul), the mind, the body. All things that are beauty in the human person stem from within. Without the first to a person can never be beautiful but can only be “hot” and eventually all things that are “hot” cool off. Beauty is something that is so much more though that it can be eternal.

You all can call me what you will judge me as you please these are just one mans opinions. I don’t give a rats ass how hot a girl is. If she is awful in the center she is awful on the surface.

I hope she becomes the person she deserves to be and is truly beautiful and not just hot.

Lee says:

@Rham Man, I am 46. I will fucking shave myself bald and tell chicks I’m a plumber just so you can watch me pick ‘em up anyway. That’s how little I think it matters. Guess I can’t make myself shorter but that should be close enough.

Rham says:

@Lee

That is like a white guy telling a black guy, dude I really feel your struggle and what you are going through. You can read about it, you can synthesize it, you can try an grasp it but in the end its not the same.

Man, let me tell you. A guy who is 6’2 with a pot belly, hard prison record and working a crap job has a better percentage chance than a shorter guy. I know I have a friend who is is exactly that and chicks dig him “he makes me feel so feminine and safe.” Your heart is in the right place but man, you have no idea since you are taller. You can get away with alot more slack. I take that to the bank.

KL says:

So why don’t you just wear lifts in your shoes, if that will solve all your problems

Rham says:

I have. Have a couple of pairs. If you get more than 3″ they get really clunky and then if you do get attraction the chick is going to find out the truth eventually.

Thanks but I have already tried that and I do wear lifts and thick soles now. It still only gets me to around 5’8″ and that does not even seem to do it in a sea of dudes say 5’11 or taller.

This is a real problem and this blog like others treats it like its some minor cut so you just apply a band-aid. Its not by a long shot.

Axel says:

What do you propose to do about this problem then?

Lee says:

@Rham Dude, you are the one who used full head of hair and income as an example of what girls are looking for. No, I can’t make myself shorter to prove something to you, but at the very least, you have to retract your previous statement that game is a myth. If it were, I wouldn’t be able to offer to handicap myself the way I am doing now and still guarantee success, no matter my height. Yes, I will put my money where my mouth is. Now, here is the real question: What are you going to say when I produce a short Indian guy who will get numbers while you watch? That he has a cute British accent? That he knows how to dance? Isn’t there always an excuse, dude?

KL says:

So I guess being taller does not solve everything. Big surprise.

Rham, don’t you see what the problem is here? When you’re 5’5″ you say you’re losing to the 5’8″ guys. Then when you’re 5’8″ with lifts you say you’re losing to the 5’11″ guys.

I could put you on a stool and you would say you’re losing to Yao Ming.

I mean, seriously, how is it that so many 5’8″ guys are getting women? They should be losing to the 5’11″ guys, right?

And the 5’11″ guys should be losing to the 6’3″ guys, and so on.

So the tallest man in the world should be banging every woman in the world, right?

Yeah… doesn’t look like it

Rham says:

Lee,

Go ahead and fire away. I want to see this Indian guy pickup hot blondes and women that taller than him. I am open to seeing this, infact I would pay to see it but do I trust the video? This whole PUA thing is so slanted toward money making I dont know but again, I would pay to see it.

KL,

Yes I am losing to taller guys. Absolutely. Being 5’8 is not that great (that rhymes, now funny lol). If you are in a club and you are not 6ft, you will do terrible.

Think about it, why would a hot woman go with a shorter guy than a taller guy? Why would she? Let me know if you have insight for I do not see why she would. We are constantly told bigger and taller is better and from what I have seen and experienced, women want taller men. They tell me that to my face, I see in the personals. What more do I have to say?

I am just trying to find a way to date beautiful women. How as a short guy can I do that?

Rham says:

Its like tonight. I was approached a couple of women at this New Years party and all three of them (all very attractive) told me they had boyfriends and I excused myself.

The bartender asked me what happened and I told her they all told me they had boyfriends. She told me that they were probably just blowing me off. I asked her why and she told me young attractive women today are very picky and that “I will find a great gal sometime.” Well I have been told that all my life.

So I asked one of the young ladies why she told me no. She told me that while I was funny and stuff she told me I was not her type “sorry.” I said I thought women loved confidence in a man, she told me that yes that is true but there needs to be chemistry.

This happens all the time. My friends tell me to approach lower or women not as attractive. But I have been told by this community and by reading The Game, that if I play the numbers I will date beautiful women. I apologzie for venting but what can I do?

Lee says:

@Rham Are you near NYC, dude? I want to totally blow your mind. I am going to show you a balding, short Indian dude successfully getting numbers from, among others, hot blondes. What happens on dates and in relationships is another question, but at the very least, you will see what you think is absolutely impossible, a level that you have not been able to attain. You will see a man with all of the handicaps you think are insurmountable easily get past them. Live! Here is what I ask for in return. After you witness this yourself, you will come back to this site and retract some of the statements you have made about game. You will admit the possibility that skill matters, and you will start re-examining your self defeating beliefs.

KL says:

Rham,

Ok, just got back from a New Years party. Before I get to that, you said:

“Think about it, why would a hot woman go with a shorter guy than a taller guy?”

She would if she feels chemistry and strong masculine energy from the shorter guy, versus awkwardness or low confidence from the tall guy. The most successful men make the most of what they have. And women can sense that, they can sense that energy and that self confidence and masculine dominance.

Now, I am 5’5″. I went to this party, not super energetic, not super confident, not in the best mood. Nevertheless at one point this tall hot blonde girl asked me to dance with her.

She was seriously like 6″ taller than me in her heels. AND I stank because earlier some random girl had partially vomited on my arm, AND this tall blondie had previously been making out like crazy with her (good-looking) man on the dance floor.

I got a good amount of female attention throughout the party. Ultimately it’s because even though I’m short, the way I carry myself and the way I look into a woman’s eyes is extremely powerful. I also touch women with confidence and smoothness.

I can see the attraction in women’s eyes toward me every single day in the street. And that often includes women as tall or taller than me.

KL says:

BTW Lee, I would LOVE to see this guy you’re talking about. I’m in. If he doesn’t mind an audience :)

Rham says:

Hi Lee,

Unfortunately I am not near NYC. Would be great to visit.

If I were to see this in earnest and this guy honestly opened up and say got numbers from some attractive women, I would retract it all. You have my word.

I might be able to make it to NYC in the next month or two. If I do, I will let you know. I would definitely like to see this.

Happy New Year to you!

Rham says:

KL,

That is interesting. Glad you had a good time. Thanks for the note. I still do not see why they would pick a shorter guy but I guess I have to study your note better.

Lee says:

@Rham KL told you why he got attention. He said he came in with the right attitude. If men come in with high value, they can overcome natural disadvantages. Absent any information, women will make simple decisions based on height, weight, hair, income, whatever. Given more options, women will make more complex decisions and this is where men can overcome natural disadvantages. You don’t know how to tell women that you’re valuable, and no one’s taught you how.

KL says:

Rham, you’re a good guy, and honest, but you’re really missing out here. I understand your frustration because I’ve been there. I was an angry, defensive guy that nobody liked, with no friends and certainly no skills with women.

When I changed my attitude, the way I looked at myself, and the vibe I was giving off, people were more interested in me. I became open, and people became open to me. And I’m still growing, still a work in progress. 2011 will be a great year for me.

Actually, I have never really thought of myself as short. Logically it’s obvious what the measuring tape says, but that’s never been a part of my identity. It’s only when I’ve been coming to this site that I have encountered so many short-bashers that I have had to make that part of myself clearer. But being this height is really irrelevant to my psychology and the way I think of myself.

Rham, your last comment makes me wonder: what exactly do you think attraction is primarily about for a woman? That is, attraction is primarily physical for men, and for women it is…?

Rham says:

KL,

I really do not see why women would pick a shorter guy or even a bald or a guy with a physical problem. To me women have an agenda. Like how they like shopping. They want the best deal and best product possible. Supposedly via evolutionary psychology women are going to pick the “best” choice they can find for mating, dating and the like. I read this a while back and this was preached to us at various bootcamps and books they wanted us to read. So after bombing out so much in the field and seeing my “taller, fitter” friends do well just by being “taller and fitter”. That’s one part.

I rarely see guys like me out with attractive women. I do not. I am not a hermit nor blind. I rarely see attractive women or know attractive women that date say average looking guys. If they can have tall and good looking then why not? We live in a consumer society and attractive women have tons of choices. Tons. I have even asked female friends and they all tell me that, yeah looks are very important and so is height if not more so. They love the security thing. They love that they can show them off to friends. I give them neither. That’s another part.

All of this has spelled out to me the following – attractive women due to evolutionary and societal influences will date the best guy they can at all times possible. That means they will date the best looking or resource laden and or combination of both. Its to their advantage I guess…

That is how I see it. Attraction for women is dating the best they can date at all times. This means physical, material and social. They want it all or the most they can get in each area. Its in their genes. Its their agenda. How can a man’s attitude or personality change what is biologically in their genes? If they live in a bigger city like me, then they have a ton of choices. They can pick and choose. If they live in a smaller town, then they have fewer choices. But I live in a bigger city so I am just a number and a lower one at that.

KL says:

I doubt you live in a city bigger than mine. I live in New York. And yet I’m getting attraction all over the place.

“If they can have tall and good looking then why not?”

I already told you. Because women don’t JUST want tall and good looking. They want emotions and feelings. If a tall guy can’t give them the feeling, but a short guy can, they will go with the short guy every time. The main reason you don’t see more short men with hot girls is because most short men are super low confidence and have the same self-defeating assumptions as you.

To put it crudely, for men, physical comes first, then emotion. For women, it’s the opposite: emotion/ feelings come first, then physical.

Rham, I guarantee you are not giving women the emotions and feelings they crave. I know this by the way you are talking. Anyone who spends a lot of time with women and connects with them on a deep level understands that women CRAVE certain feelings. When a man can push those buttons, her eyes light up, her body language shifts. Just like when a woman shows cleavage and hikes her skirt up–same effect on a man.

Moreover, you talk about women having “an agenda.” But you have an agenda too–you only want to date pretty girls, not ugly girls. That’s your agenda, as given to you by nature. Everyone has an “agenda” technically, but when you put it in those terms you make women out to be the enemy, and this whole process becomes like a big contest on a battlefield. That is exactly the wrong psychology to have.

Women are not out to get you. They are waiting for you to learn how to communicate with them on a deeper, emotional and sexual level. And that comes from strong inner confidence, which you will never have if you go in with a losing mentality from the start.

“I am just a number and a lower one at that.”

I rest my case.

Lee says:

@KL I told Rham all of this in another thread. Here is what I think is really going on. He needs a reason to accept failure as a foregone conclusion, so he keeps making these arguments, some of them contradictory. The bald and broke thing is back. I already told him that I will shave my head and tell chicks I’m a plumber and still get hot chicks to ask me out. Rham, carefully look at the things you’re saying. When I told you I have a short Indian friend that I would ask to prove to you that he gets numbers, you said it would only count if he gets numbers from women taller than himself. You mean if he’s 5’6″, you wouldn’t be satisfied if he were to get a number from a 5’4″ hottie? I’ve gone out with women who are 5’4″. Dude, you are setting up these obstacles just to validate your own sense of the inevitability of failure. You need some serious reprogramming.

Axel says:

That’s one thing that I don’t get. If you’re shorter than some guys, who cares. There’s a good chance at least 40% of women are shorter than you. If you’re taller than the woman, then it doesn’t matter that there are taller men out there.

Personally I don’t tend to dig women taller than me, because one if the things that turn me on is the relationship in size between myself and a smaller woman.
I’m at about six feet, so I’m taller than most women, but women who are the same height or taller than me don’t really do it for me, though I’ve seen some of them showing attraction towards me.

Axel says:

Forgot to add, my point being that there are plenty of beautiful women out there who are shorter than 5’4” or whatever. If the tall ones are such insurmountable peaks, why waste the energy? Go for the shorter hotties and leave the amazones to the taller men.

Also, I’ve heard women talking about not wanting men that are too tall, as they themselves are short. How about that?

Lee says:

A survey that appeared in Cosmo magazine a while back showed that, on average, women prefer men who are 110% of their own height, which is to say that a woman who is 5’2″ would prefer a man who is 5’8″. The standard deviation on that number was large, which is to say that there are plenty of women who, at 5’4″ would prefer men only an inch or two taller than they are. Furthermore, the article did say that while that ratio reflected the average preference, the number of women who would not budge at all from that preference was very small, and that most women who claimed a hard preference nevertheless admitted a dating history that included men who fell below that standard.

KL says:

Great points, Axel and Lee. I am about to enter a casual sexual relationship with a girl who is shorter than me–a little bundle of cute sexiness with great T&A. She’s also very smart and hardworking, in other words a high quality chick. She’s so into me it’s ridiculous. Why would a guy want to pass up that kind of happiness? For some weird “standard” that doesn’t even make sense?

Just off the top of my head I can think of 3 or 4 women who I’ve met in the past and currently that were taller than me, but still were/ are attracted. I’m like Axel, I tend to prefer women who are shorter than me.

Also, nobody is mentioning that being short actually has some advantages: you’re less of a physical threat to a woman, facilitating comfort; the freedom to get very sexual more quickly because she feels safer; you can make strong direct eye contact and therefore build a deeper connection with a woman your height than a taller man can.

Also many very short girls shy away from men who are too tall, just like men shy away from women who are too short. So as a short guy you have access to a whole crop of short sexy cuties that taller men probably don’t.

Fran Taylor says:

She makes a few points that I agree with. But I also find it curious that she calls herself a “hot girl”. I myself have been told by many people around me about how pretty I am. I’ve always grown up with this being my face, that’s all it was. I knew I had some favorable features and I generally liked the way I looked. But in the overall picture, when comparing myself to those around me, I found myself to be average (maybe a little above average on a good day). It took many years of people telling me of my supposed beauty for me to actually accept it. I have a small frame and large boobs and many people comment on how disproportionate they are and how noticeable they are. This came as a shock and almost an insult to me. I always thought when I looked in the mirror that this was how I was supposed to look, I never thought it was strange and still don’t. Not to invalidate the opinion of this woman, but beauty is subjective. Wether you are applying it to those around you or to yourself, the way you see something could differ from how others see it.

TB says:

Fran, I also found that odd. I can relate to your situation of not recognizing your own beauty. I knew I was slightly above average but nothing that would make me stand out from the rest. So I was shocked and horrified when my friend brought up my looks in a serious conversation we were having. We has recently started our freshman year in college and our friendship was being tested but we kept strong through talking a lot. We were also making a lot of new friends. As we were talking she told me how self-conscience she was (something I knew about her). But she also commented on how she and our new friends had discussed their thoughts on my beauty and found it to be superior to theirs and that I couldn’t relate to her problems because I would know what it was like to not be pretty. I was crushed. I started blaming myself for her self-consciencenous and felt like a terrible friend for causing her to feel that way. And I didn’t even see it. I looked at her and saw all the wonderful and beautiful parts that she couldn’t see and I couldn’t convince her that those things were true, she refused to see it. The worst part is that I could control the way I looked. I even put aside my nicer wardrobe for hoodies and sweatpants and skipped the majority of my make-up routine. I wanted them to see that I was just like them, that I had my fair share of faults. In the end, we continued to drift apart and I hope they finally discovered how to see all of their beauty.

dothi says:

Quoted for truth: “Women are not out to get you. They are waiting for you to learn how to communicate with them on a deeper, emotional and sexual level. And that comes from strong inner confidence, which you will never have if you go in with a losing mentality from the start.”

I’m an attractive woman (judging by how most men respond to me). Most guys probably label me a b*tch cause I tend to be reserved, down to business, and easily intimidated. The guys that impress me are the ones who find a million and one things to talk about with me (that I genuinely find interesting or we have in common) without ever making me feel like my pretty face is IN THE WAY. Boldness impresses me, and that’s NOT the same as arrogance. It’s bold when you tuck a note in my hand about an awesome concert that you KNOW I like is coming up. It’s arrogant when you boast about going to the concert, and assume that I’m going to waiting for a CHANCE to go with you.

To all the guys who think women only want to assess your sperm quality: LEARN TO COMMUNICATE. Learn to communicate your enthusiasm, your true passions, and what your boundaries are. IME insecure men who can’t communicate end up projecting their bullshit onto you. You know, when they finally “get” you, but realize they’re still not happy because deep down they’re still insecure and unhappy with themselves, so they start putting you down to feel more powerful? You know, cuz afterall, there’s obviously something wrong with you if you’re dating THEM to begin with…. Sorry insecure guys, but I find you tend to mindfuck instead of just communicate directly. You are so used to not getting what you want that you forget to stop “tricking” people into liking you, even when you’re in the relationship!

Things I hope to hear from a communicative man one day: he’s crazy about the same music, finds my eccentricities workable and cute, hasn’t lost respect for me upon learning about all the not-so-pretty stuff that comes with the pretty face (cuz you know, I was born human afterall), and that he honestly sees me as a GOOD FIT into his life (not just around his cock).

This is my two cents. Take what you like and leave the rest.

Jay says:

for anyone who thinks height matters, read this: http://asianuniverse.net/forums/5_4_Wong_Cho_Lam_is_dating_5_9_Leanne_Li_The_relationship_s_t254210.html. The girl he’s dating is Miss Chinese Canada. He’s a troll, but talented. End of story.

Nobody says:

I have to admit, after reading this article, I was shocked at the insensitivity of the first comment. This woman obviously has psychological issues from having been born with a body and face deemed attractive by the majority she came across in her life. Despite this, men still argue amongst themselves as to how to attain such a woman.

The point really, is that being hot may not be all it’s cracked up to be. Sure you get things for free, but beauty is a double edged sword. Physical beauty eventually fades; I am sure that at some point, every beautiful man or woman will have to find something beyond their looks to define themselves by. Which, quite honestly, can be hard for them. Part of who we are is influenced by the people around us and how they’ve come to see us as.

I think it’s important to remember that this is just one “hot girl”‘s opinion and experience. There are many attractive women out there; their experiences may not be the same, and therefore, if you do in fact try to pursue an attractive woman, you’d need to use a different tactic for different girls.

In general; however, all women are the same- They are really just looking for someone suitable who genuinely appreciates them for their personality.

Harry Beastly says:

Sounds like the kind of girl ‘negs’ work on; sounds like the kind of girl who doesn’t mind sleeping around a bit and like the kind who would not fall for a nice guy, the kind who would not hold her accountable.

dave says:

Wow! What an enlightening essay! Having never had a conversation with a woman for more than 7 seconds ( supermarket cashier?), I
found it difficult to understand the young lady’s attitude. It sounded
as if she should be a lot happier with her life.

A says:

Dear writer, I love your essay. But I noticed: it sounds like your dad is making some really (accidentally) unsupportive comments to you that I think has become internalized to you.

I also am generally considered attractive by the general public, and most of what you explain (having trouble making male friends, inappropriate comments) I also experienced and relate to.

However, my dad almost never mentions how I look at all! (Unless I’m dressed up, and then he just says you look nice). I think part of our male siblings/dad’s role is to teach us how to relate to men, and if your dad is saying things like “You look like you need to work out” on a regular basis, it could make you hypersensitive to thinking that you always need to look perfect. I know it would upset me.

Personally, if I don’t want to be judged by my looks, I will go out without makeup or in sweats, and at least in NYC, that helps.

Also what you said about intelligence and beauty was interesting; I think that if you want to be both intelligent and beautiful, you also have to be outgoing and extremely nice, especially to women: remember birthdays, give thoughtful gifts, always have extra gum or snacks to share. Showing a bit of modesty and emotional vulnerability also helps, so they know you are human too, and have your own challenges. I know, personally, if I’m shy, people think I’m rude or stuckup; but if you are open, reliable and sweet, people gather quickly and love to be friends.

dave says:

Ms. A. – Why does your suggestion sound just like what psychologists/psychiatrists have told guys to avoid, and that is not to
treat the lady as you would your mother. Open , reliable and sweet is called boring — and for that, the man MUST be punished!

Mickey says:

@Dave:

Kinda puts the lie to the idea that women like guys who treat their mother well. It figures…

J says:

“Personally, if I don’t want to be judged by my looks, I will go out without makeup…”

I’m not trying to be nasty, but if people only think you’re attractive when you’ve got makeup on, then you’re not naturally good-looking and don’t qualify as ‘hot’.

Insulted says:

You’re obviously not as hot as she is or you’d get it. Snacks? You want me to share my snacks? I’m hot. I don’t have a variety of snacks on hand 24/7 silly. I give my dogs snacks. Women who ask other women for snacks are fatasses with no men because they are fatasses. Duh. Yeah it’s hard to be Hot. Not as hard as being fat and ugly I’m sure but it’s still difficult. Everyone wants to hit on us, all the time; Hot Girls have Bad Days too when we want to hole up and do nothing (while you fat girls pound Twinkies and damn us). Ugly girls get a tiny percentage of male attention, we get the majority, and the majority? Is kinda gross. Most of us Hot Girls are also too nice to say this out loud. Must be awesome sometimes to hide behind 50 plus pounds of blubber when Senile Grandpa wants to catcall. See what I mean? Still. Your comment offended me. Kudos for you to embrace RedNeckiness and sojourn out in your pj’s (yet only in NYC!) and I’m glad you find yourself your own judge for how hot you are, Narcicissim is making a comeback! Only hot ladies understand other hot ladies problems. And they would be supportive. You’re not. Therefore you are probably a troll. Don’t comment on my grammar; I’m in the bath and the steam upsets my vision. Bottom line? All women have issues with their appearance. Don’t belittle another woman’s struggle. Unless haha you already have and deserve to be out in your place.

Insulted says:

*put

Heather says:

WOW now i realize everyone should feel attractive, but you know by saying that your SSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOOO attractive is a little egotistical, not everyone is going to like you, people have different tastes. maybe your boyfriend should help you realize that first. I am glad you accept your beauty, but being too confident and making assumptions is completely unnecessary. I do like the part where you say that dumbing yourself down makes other people hate you less because it creates competition in other areas, that is VERY true

Payet says:

“saying that your [sic] SO attractive is a little egotistical [...] being too confident and making assumptions is completely unnecessary.” Trust me, not to put words in this girl’s mouth but MOST women know exactly how attractive they are based off of how other people treat them. More and more studies are showing us that beauty is objective. So this girl probably has a good handle on how attractive she is. And don’t forget, just because someone knows he/she is attractive doesn’t mean she can’t be insecure (as this girl seems). Declaring that she is hot is (most likely) just stating a fact, not pretending that she is above everyone else.

Nicole says:

I bet the winning lottery ticket, that I am hotter than you.

Kelly says:

This person is just being honest. Whenever someone is honest about being attractive they are labeled as egotistical because our society would rather us self-depreciate. Young girls and grown women sit around complaining about flaws with each other and that is acceptable yet unhealthy.

They should be focusing on the features that make them beautiful, everyone has something that is beautiful about them. The truth is, there are objective characteristics, however, that make one attractive: Clear skin, symmetrical faces and bodies, waist to hip ration of .65-.7, large eyes, small nose, full lips and a small chin are viewed as most attractive.

Many women have some of these traits, but when a woman as most if not all she can never forget what she looks like because she is constantly reminded. There is scientific evidence that when men find a woman very attractive they can’t shift out of the part of their brain that sees a woman as a sexual object and connect with her on an emotional level. When someone is dating a women with average attractiveness then it is more likely he will eventually do so.

Beauty can be a curse in many ways. You may be appreciated from a far, or treated like a score or trophy. It is quite possible to find a man that values someone’s beauty and also the other attributes they have. Good men are out there and good women friends as well. The main difference is these people tend to have a strong sense of self, locus of control, and a healthy self-confidence.

Robert says:

It’s interesting to see how many HOT women have commented on this post, but none of them (including the write of the essay) is able to prove it. XD

S says:

To the “hot chick” no offense but you sound more messed up than what you actually spot. You have a sad response to previous relationships and i dare say using your current boyfriend for a sense of security. I bet he is actualy too good for you.

TJJames says:

good essay and it seems honest. I see hot girls all the time and gave up trying to talk to them a long time ago. I do think they are more critical of others (rightly so) as they are approached at a rate I can ‘t imagine. Personally I find any extra weight in social situations to be too much. My friends have no requirement of the pretension of “social acceptance” If we can’t just talk to each other without the fear that we are being judged then I will find someone who just easier to tali to and is less judgmental. Quite simple really.

As for this ladies difficulties. I do feel for her. Although I can’t imagine being in her position, it must be difficult to only be seen as a pretty shape and appealing form. We are all much more than our outside shell and like it said, these shells do not keep their shape and form. Its easy to forget that we all have problems (big or small) It makes me wish I could have gotten past my own insecurities but I have almost come to terms with it.

Good luck to all

T

Anna says:

To Hot Chick:

I agree with many points you’ve made. However, I disagree with your comment on how you dumb yourself down. I’m not going to tell you how to live your life, but I will reveal a bit on how I live mine and hopefully it will help attractive women everywhere.

I wasn’t exactly born hot. I started off as a tomboy, playing multiple sports and eventually grew into my looks and more interested in modeling, acting, and dancing. I have had success and continue to have success today in modeling and acting, which is why I definitely cannot reveal an image of myself. I mention the tomboy part because it had already instilled an unconscious intimidation. This caused alienation, bullying, snarky comments, having my car trashed, etc. I focused on my career outside of school and stayed in the library during school.

What I’ve learned is that no matter what you do or the way you act, some people will always dislike you because you are attractive. Believe me, I’ve tried. I’ve adjusted and adapted my attitude to please others, offered gifts, smiled, laughed at jokes, gave out compliments.
The other fact is that your looks will fade. I’ve come to accept that, which is why I pull out all stops and display my intelligence, look my best, and uphold a positive, confident and friendly attitude. That combination is lethal. I have achieved many, many successes through doing this.

If you feel the need to dumb yourself down in order to get others to like you, then you do not deserve to be attractive. I don’t mean that to offend you, but there really are plenty of ambitious, intelligent, and compassionate women who can build a great life for themselves and those around them, if only they had the looks to get their foot in the door. Utilize your looks to get ahead in your career and to continue to progress in your life. The important people will recognize this and contribute to your success. The people who put you down are only afraid of you. When your looks fade, you will still be a respectable and strong person living exactly how you want to. Fuck the rest.

Lee says:

A very, very healthy attitude, girlfriend.

–Lee

Dennis says:

I’m an older man in California, divorced. I’ve probably seen it all and I don’t mean to be arrogant by saying this. Just experience. I’ve spent years trying to understand, cope, relate, truly communicate with women and often get lost in the contradictory nature of women who give huge positive signals, then reverse themselves by cancelling dates and suddenly “going cold.” ….I ask all the women who’d like to, to offer the top three qualities that attracts them to men. Dennis in California

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