How to Get HER Chasing YOU

by Eric Disco
Oct 30

reyne7

The best guys out there know something that other guys don’t know.

There are a lot of important components to getting great with women, but one important concept, particularly when it comes to very attractive women, is qualification.

As I’ve talked about before, your over-all goal in your interaction with a woman is to show genuine appreciation. If she feels like you saw something in her that no one else could, then she will feel differently about you than every other guy in the world.

And when I say genuine appreciation, it usually means appreciation of something she’s shared with you. Maybe she’s passionate about painting and you can say “Wow, I really like that. You’re passionate. That’s important.”

The problem is, most women won’t just come out and display their innermost important qualities–and they won’t display it to just anyone. There needs to be attraction there first.

You start interacting with her and, ideally, she is attracted to you. Part of this is that you simply took the initiative–took the lead–to come up to her and talk to her. Another part of this may be that you are fun and flirty, you show confidence and personality, you have confident body language, you touch her in the right way, etc.

You show your attractive qualities–which happens very quickly. You can tell she’s attracted if she’s smiling or intently focused on you.

Then it’s time to appreciate her.

misswinterIf she starts opening up, then that’s great. You can begin emotionally connecting her without challenging her in any way.

But with extremely attractive women, what sometimes happens is that you walk up to her, you show some attractive qualities, and then she does reveal something about herself, but it’s not enough.

Maybe she thinks you’re confident and cool, so she’ll give you a moment. You ask her what she does and she gives you one-word answers.

It’s not usually that she’s shy, it’s often that there just isn’t enough attraction there.

Yes, you were attractive when you came up to her. And therefore she’s giving you a minute. But this girl is very attractive. And she gets guys talking to her all the time. So she’s not going to display her inner most beauty to you right away. She wants to see what else you’ve got.

Most guys make the mistake of trying to impress her. They talk about how awesome their life is or try to build themselves up in some way to her.

The problem with this is that you are always fighting a losing battle. Always. No matter how cool you appear to her, the overall tone of the interaction is that of you trying to impress her. That means she is the decider. It is still her deciding whether you are good enough for her.

And so even if she does decide you are good enough, you still need to continue to impress her for as long as you know her.

It’s like you are going to a job interview. You may be extremely qualified for the job, but she’s still the boss interviewing you.

A guy who is great with women knows how to flip this around so that it’s him deciding if she’s good enough for him. It’s called qualification.

Qualification is huge. This is how you get her to try to win your approval. In a certain sense, this is at the heart of all game. Instead of you trying to impress her and win her over, she is trying to win you over.

reyne4Qualification is a tool that allows you to amp up the interaction to make you more of a challenge.

If there is no attraction or rapport there in the first place, qualification doesn’t work.

Qualification is not in itself a way to attract her or connect with her.

Qualification is based on the fact that she has already invested something in you, no matter how small.

You are baiting her to display more of herself by building on what she has already displayed.

One of the reasons that qualification is such a difficult concept for people to grasp is that you can’t really use a “line” for qualification. There’s a line that people use to try and qualify:

“So you’re beautiful, but what do you have going for you beyond your beauty?”

This line, in my opinion, is not only useless, but it’s not truly qualifying.

This is because the original aspect of her being beautiful was not something she displayed to you based on attraction. She is beautiful to everyone.

reyne6But let’s suppose you found out, from talking to her, that she’s a lawyer. This is something that she has revealed to you in conversation. And she revealed that because there was some attraction in the first place.

You could go up to a random woman on the street and say “What do you do for a living?” If there is no attraction there at all, she won’t tell you. She won’t stand there and talk to you.

But if you approached her and she stays and talks to you, you can assume there’s some attraction there.

If she’s going to stay there and talk to you she’ll usually reveal something about herself no matter how begrudgingly she does it or how small it is.

But there may not be enough to get into really deep rapport, particularly if she’s gorgeous and a lot of men approach her.

So let’s say she reveals to you that she’s a lawyer but isn’t giving you much else.

This is where qualification starts to become important. You take what she revealed to you, validate her, and then throw out a qualifying question.

One of my favorite ways to do this is to think about what she’s given you (she said she’s a lawyer), tell her what you think is cool about it, and then think about in your mind what is generally considered bad about lawyers.

Maybe lawyers are too uptight and don’t know how to have fun.

So you validate what she’s given you, then throw back a qualifying question:

“Oh cool, you’re a lawyer? Wow, that takes dedication. But wait, you’re not one of those girls who doesn’t know how to have fun, are you?”

reyne5I’m using what she told me to come across as a challenge and further amp the interaction.

Ideally, she will bite and display herself even more. She may tell me that she likes to rock climb. Then I can validate her on that and possibly even qualify again or simply just go deeper with her into what she’s loves about rock climbing to build an emotional connection.

Qualification is a somewhat advanced technique. You must first learn how to

1) Get some kind of attraction first, no matter how small. If she won’t engage in conversation in the first place, trying to use qualification to get to her engage in conversation won’t work.

2) Truly emotionally connect with her. If she’s sensing you don’t know how to appreciate what she’s already given you, then she won’t display herself any further no matter how challenging you come across.

Qualification is one of the most important aspects of getting great with women. But once in place, it starts to make all your interactions a lot easier.

One of the great things about starting to qualify women is that after a while they can hear it in your voice tone. After a while, you give off a vibe that you are checking to see if she’s good enough for you. She feels like you’re trying to find out if she qualifies to be with you.

When you get good at qualifying, you no longer think about impressing her. You are no longer struggling and struggling to pour on more attraction by displaying yourself. Instead, you’re challenging her to display herself.

She starts to wonder whether she’s good enough for you and stops wondering whether you’re good enough for her.

And she wants that! She wants to feel that if she were slightly less cool than she was, you wouldn’t be with her.

That makes her feel like she’s living up to her fullest potential. That’s exciting for her.

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posted in Attraction

COMMENTS
67 responses
BadBoyE says:

One of the best articles in a while Eric.

Keep it up

Todd H. says:

great post
thank you

WT says:

Thank you Eric!

Nicolò says:

Good man!

max says:

thank you for this website! its amazing.. :)

got a paypal? u should consider putting a donate button, id love to buy you a beer for ur great articles :)

Another great article on a very useful matter… :)

peice says:

*scribbles this into notepad* Thanks Mr. Disco!

[...] Eric Disco explains how to get women to chase you. [...]

Karma says:

That’s pure gold…a vintage Eric Disco post that comes from his core.

Truth be told, I was put off by a few of Eric’s posts in between. Posts in which he made token mention of Lance Mason with a link to his site, affiliate code an all. It’s not the mention of Lance that put me off so much as the ‘token’ mention; the inclusion seemed pathetically forced.

Lance Mason is a case of a good guy gone desperate. He has lost much of his goodwill because of his greedy spammy promotions. How the mighty have fallen!

Hitching his wagon to Lance, will probably not serve Eric.

I hope to get glued (again!) to approachanxiety.com and fwd (again!) the posts to my friends.

And if Eric releases a product, I hope to purchase it pronto. Still waiting for his book.

Wilson says:

Hey Eric

Thanks for the realization that qualification can change the whole dynamic of interactions. I like learning the skills of a chooser

Kevin says:

Eric,

Normally I love your stuff but this is “pie in the sky”….in order for qualification to work you need attraction and it does not come easy with very beautiful women. Not at all…

These women do not care if they are good enough for “you”…quite the contrary they want know if you are good enough for “them”…so how can his work? It cant. They choose whom they want. They can have the choice of the litter.

I am sorry but I just cant take this post seriously. Its too pie in the sky.

Kevin says:

I just re-read it again. It is pie in the sky. These women do have the pick of the litter and can basically have just about any man that they want.

So why would they want an average guy like me? Because I am funny, because I am smart? We all know that is just angles that the community uses to sell products. Qualification with very attractive women is another one.

Francis says:

Kevin this “pie in the sky” you speak of is the reality that Mr Eric Disco is living daily! I aspire to that kind of greatness, but I have my demons to overcome before I can do any of this. He’s preaching what he practices. It’s up to YOU to liberate yourself.

I’ve also met dudes who CAN do all this sort of thing and get results. And be for you talk, no, they were not rich or that great looking or well dressed, just confident and leading with women.

Francis

Kevin says:

Francis – sorry it is “pie in the sky.”

For all I know those dudes might have money or something else of value. This confidence thing is SO overrated. I mean look at the guys women date – thugs, druggies, hoods,ect. Most of these guys have the confidence of a pea….And then there are the women that control guys left and right.

I am sorry but I have been in this dating scene for quite a while now and I just do not believe women will start chasing a normal guy unless there is something in return for them….its just life….

Kevin says:

Eric – how can we really believe this stuff? I mean seriously. Why would a hot chick chase say an average guy? Why would she qualify herself to such a guy? If she can have the pick pf the litter (which she normally can) then why would she waste her time? It makes no sense even on an emotional level…if you have more to explain, please do but for now, I am not sold at all…

Axel says:

Why?

Because you fucking kick ass. And the more you believe you kick ass, the more you kick ass. It’s a wonderful cycle, if you just know how too ride it.

Why would a hot chick chase an average guy? Because he has confidence, and she can tell, and that turns her on. It doesn’t get her a new fur coat, it doesn’t let her drive a ferrari or whatever the fuck you might suggest. But it TURNS HER ON

IT MAKES HER HORNY GOD DAMNIT

Thank you for reading, and pardon my excitability.

Francis says:

Kevin I feel sorry for the way you see life…and I don’t mean that in a ‘oh you poor little man’ condescending tone. I mean that it’s funny that you can have a perception of dating being that way, while other men, maybe in worse off position or past than you can have a completely different view and be scoring with the girls, only because they actually believe they can!

It’s an illusion that women have the pick of the litter…the reason why it appears this way is because 90%+ of the time it’s a man doing all the approaching which means that 90%+ of the time it’s the woman who’s gonna be doing the ‘picking’ or ‘rejecting’. If all men stopped approaching women tomorrow, will women still have their pick of the litter? They’d have nothing, unless they buckled up and took over as approachers. That’s hardly ever gonna happen in this century.

I’m sorry all that you see is pimps, thugs, rich or disturbingly good men getting all the women. I don’t see that, I see only CONFIDENT men getting women…men who stopped hiding behind excuses and step up and find ways to better themselves.

Women are attracted to confidence and balls and your ability to LEAD. They want leaders, not a man who’s prettier than them, not a man who will give her all the diamonds in the world, but not his heart, not a man who’s a gang banger. A man who is grounded and knows what he wants. Besides: You think a woman who dates thugs, druggies and hoods as you put it is a ‘good’ woman? A real woman wants an honest man, with a life, stability and most of all heart and presence…not excuses.

Eric appears to me as just a normal guy, describing here what I’m sure he’s put into practice himself. It may be pie in the sky for YOU, but it’s the pie he and other men who are stepping up to the challenge are eating very healthily and enjoying!

All I’m trying to say Kevin, is you have a choice to hold onto that belief if you think it’s serving you. But remember, as long as you hold onto it, it will always remain true for you and whats true for you will always be what you see. While other men without them are the men you see with the hottest women.

If you believe all of this is pie in the sky, then why are you here anyway….there must be an element of hope within you if you’re coming to a site like this?

Francis

Kris says:

Let us be honest, most of the pick-up guys that have success, are good looking and have other cool stuff going on in their lives:

Brad P
Glenn P
Eric Disco
Christian Hudson
Nick sparks
Rob Overman (CA)
GK (CA)
Timmy Swagger (CA)
dR (CA)
Juggler
Soul (LS)
etc………

Most of the clients that get good results, usually have good looks, a good/cool job and got life.

Now try telling that to the guy that have been scared for life and have been less fortunate in the looks department. There is a bit to much positivity in the community.

Sorry if I sound to pessimistic, but I have been let-down/hurt to much in my life. Even though I try to stay positive, but lately………..:(

Kevin says:

I agree this whole thing is really a sham. Really is. I have been at this for 5 years now and its like pulling teeth.

‘I’m sorry all that you see is pimps, thugs, rich or disturbingly good men getting all the women. I don’t see that, I see only CONFIDENT men getting women…men who stopped hiding behind excuses and step up and find ways to better themselves.” – well I have been trying to better myself thru self-help, I work out regularly, I have a good hair cut, I dress stylish and well, I work hard and have a couple of high degrees, I play guitar, have some cool and interesting hobbies and NADA. Mostly I see hot women good looking bad boy types – and I am not talking bimbos here – I am talking female lawyers, Doctors, teachers….

So I agree with Kris. Its the better looking guys that are going to win. Try and prove me wrong – you cant I am afraid. Women care about the personality of good looking men. That’s when they care about personality.

“It’s an illusion that women have the pick of the litter…the reason why it appears this way is because 90%+ of the time it’s a man doing all the approaching which means that 90%+ of the time it’s the woman who’s gonna be doing the ‘picking’ or ‘rejecting’. If all men stopped approaching women tomorrow, will women still have their pick of the litter? They’d have nothing, unless they buckled up and took over as approachers. That’s hardly ever gonna happen in this century.” Yes that is true – half way. Women will signal men that they want to come to them or they will position themselves. They know what they are doing. They go after who they want.

So qualification only works if there is attraction. If there is no attraction than there is no qualification. These women are only attracted to the finest….

Eric Disco says:

This really is a sham. Everything I’ve ever gotten has been given to me. Dumb luck.

I’m tall. Relatively good-looking. I couldn’t afford to buy my own place, but I have a decent day job. I coach on the side and made enough money to pay off the $20,000 in credit card debt I accrued since college.

Pickup give me game? I had girlfriends before I got into pickup. No, they weren’t beauty queens and models, but they were into me, even if I was ambivalent toward them.

I had an awesome loving family who put me through college–the most loving parents you can think of. They’re still happily married after 40 years. Dumb luck.

Sure I had intense social anxiety growing up, but I always had at least one close friend. If you’d asked me how I made friends, I couldn’t have told you. But I loved them and they me. Dumb luck.

I still don’t date supermodels. And still go through long dry spells where none of my approaches seem to work.

And I still wonder deep down inside, on an almost daily basis whether I can truly change, whether I can be that guy who bangs new “9′s” and “10′s” every other day.

But something has changed. Something you can’t point to. Something that can’t be measured by how many more hot girls I can bang now than I could before.

I walked out of a hotel room yesterday. A cheap little $33 a night hotel room in North Beach San Francisco. I closed the door and pulled my luggage down the long mismatched carpet. Got on a van and went to the airport. I got on a flight, touched down, and walked out into the icy cool air of New York City.

The next day, as I sat in my office working on my computer, something came over me. A thought. A feeling. For that girl I left in the hotel room behind that closed door.

Her physical beauty didn’t matter to me at that point. Yes she turned me on, and thinking about the way we fucked makes my groin tingle.

But more than that, something moved in my chest. A heaviness. Like I was suddenly connected to someone, even if she was thousands of miles away now.

And that heaviness in my chest, for once felt good. Not something to be feared. Not something that will tear me apart as it had so many times before.

It’s been happening gradually in isolated instances since I started to face my social fears. In little bits, moments at a time, I’ve started to feel more positive feelings than I ever thought I would.

And you better believe these woman are not giving me a free ride. They force me to use every dating tool I ever learned.

And somehow, in the end, I find that this is simply me again. A stronger, smarter version of me.

The whole thing is a sham. I came here looking for the keys to capture the most beautiful women in the world. A false dream to satiate my giant ego.

But I leave with something far more precious. A delicate insistent beauty, a feeling that appears and disappears like warm breath on a cold day.

Ambition will have it’s revenge. But for now, I simply enjoy what has eluded me for so long.

You will not find what you are looking for here. I say that without sarcasm, humor or artistic license. You will not find what you are looking for.

No one ever does.

Eric

Kevin says:

If that is the case Eric, then why do you do the site? It is a sham. The whole thing and there is really no hope I am afraid. Just wasted dollars on bootcamps and ebooks that promise the moon and deliver stale bread….its survival of the fittest I guess…

drew says:

Kevin…. Eric’s post was imply fucking poetic, it was great, you just didn’t seem to get it. He’s being satirical, think about it, what you NEED has to come from you, not here, not any other site.

Kevin says:

Drew, you probably are right. I just have tried it all – Mystery Method, RSD, Mehow, Pickup101, push-pull, cock& funny,Juggler . Stylelife Academy – I mean I have tried it all. I have done all kinds of bootcamps with promises to the moon, ebooks that all seem to do everything but cure cancer and I still cant get an attractive girl to go on a date with. They all tell me the same thing – do more approaches you will get good. Oh, my last product that was the best thing ever is now surpassed by the next best thing ever.

I am not some toad that lives under a bridge. I am sure Eric lives a great life and I am happy he does. I love his site but my gosh, I am at my wits end. I have tried so many things and nothing seems to work. I have been at this for years and I still cant get say a very attractive woman to really laugh and lead to say a bed room setting. There is always an excuse – they want a taller guy, wealthier man – I am never good enough. So I laugh at this qualification thing. These women can pick and choose at their whim. Its a joke. For me its been so bad that I had to pay for an escort (platonic) to a couple of corporate functions. Thats why I call it a sham.

Yes – I have confidence. Plenty, I did four sets last night and do about 15 approaches minimum a week. But I am becoming a beaten man I am afraid. Well thank god for an occasional beer – at least I enjoy something….lol..

The J says:

“Yes – I have confidence”
No you don’t. You only have the confidence to approach. You have no confidence for anything after that.

You have already disqualified yourself because you’re not X. If you don’t think you’re good enough for the woman you’re looking for who will?

From the programs you’ve tried, how much “inner game” work have you done?

Kevin says:

Yes I have the confidence to approach. Yes, my confidence is shot after that I guess….when you bomb out so much and do not see any of the success you are “promised”..than how can one have confidence anyway. Really if you think about it confidence is such an overrated term. If women really loved confidence so much, then why do they constantly date thugs and such….

I have tried alot of inner game stuff. I have taken the Mind Power series, studied NLP, did the AMP program, read Maltz, The Red Queen, Sperm Wars, Toll, consulted professionals – nothing has really helped.

It always comes down to this – hot women go after either hot or powerful guys. Thats why I think all this qualification stuff is garbage. Why would they go thru that if they can have what they want?

I still have not received any good answers…that is all I have ever asked…does any one have a good answer to this?

Kevin says:

It really does not matter what you think – its what she thinks….if she thinks you are a loser than she will go another direction. If she thinks and feels that you are a hot dude – then she will go with you…how on earth is qualification going to change that? Some will say its the investment. Not really. People change investments alot. These kind of women go thru men like kleenex…you are just disposable to them I am afraid.

Can anyone answer that one?

Eric Disco says:

Kevin,

You’ve been questioning everything here for the last two weeks. Nothing anybody here says will convince you otherwise that you can do what you believe you can’t do.

In all my life I have never had a woman approach me. Ever. I never get what the call AIs (approach invitations) from women. I don’t get women looking at me and smiling.

I truly believe I am a sexy mother fucker due to all the work I’ve done internally and on my body language. But my raw looks just don’t cut it. I am not a super handsome guy. You can see my picture here, but that is probably one of the best pictures ever taken of me.

Everything I’ve ever done in pickup has been me taking initiative with women. Me walking up to them. And then me continuing it. If I waited around for positive receptions from women, I wouldn’t get anywhere. Every step of the way women challenge me and turn me away.

I’ve taught workshops where guys had huge physical handicaps (wheelchairs, missing limbs, etc.) and still were successful with women, amazingly successful.

In the workshop I taught last weekend, a 68 year old guy, who was about 5’2″ was approaching women as young and hot as any I’ve ever seen in workshops, and getting amazing responses from them, as good as any I’ve seen.

It’s actually much harder to work guys who have bad social anxiety issues and bad body language than guys who have physical deformities or bad looks or are old.

And the guys who are hardest to work with? The guys with bad attitudes. And it’s usually guys who have been around for years hoping that someone else will “give” them something they don’t already have.

This industry is rife with people over-promising things, I’ll give you that. But I guarantee it, it’s your negative attitude holding you back. Whatever your excuses is for failure, no matter how good it is, it just doesn’t cut it here. There are people who have done far more who started with far worse.

If you have a specific question about how to do something then ask it. But we’ve all had enough of the “I don’t believe it, can someone make me believe it?” attitude. Because no amount of evidence I could present to you here will convince you otherwise if you can’t find the strength in your heart to believe you can do it.

Eric

Kevin says:

Did the 68 year old get any of their numbers? Did they actually respond to his qualification? I have a real hard time seeing that working. Why would they? They probably look at him like some teddy bear or something – not as dating material. I believe your story but have a hard time seeing how they could view him as dating material.

I know a guy who is disabled (uses braces on his legs and a walker to get around), has a great attitude, makes women laugh and they will not date him. Great guy and he tries and tries like me. They love him in front of him but treat him like dirt when he leaves. Great guy. so what do these chicks do? I have heard them talk and they laugh behind his back. That is the way women are today. Its brutal. Then some jackass or thug arrives and they cant wait to go home with him. This is not some dive bar.

Eric I know I come off as some ass – I really am a good guy that has been beaten down and has made thousands of approaches, spent tons of money and been promised the moon and its just not happened. No matter how hard I try (I at one time did 125 approaches until I got a single number) I just cant seem to get a date with an attractive woman and qualification is going to work?

I think I am owed this answer – why would an attractive woman who could have any man she wants qualify herself to say an average man? We have all been taught that this is about value. Where is the value in that? Can you answer me honestly on this and maybe I will have some hope in understanding?

Eric Disco says:

The 68-year-old guy did get phone numbers AND instant dates. The paraplegic student I had in florida is now seeing multiple women.

I think I am owed this answer

No, here is where you’re wrong. I don’t owe you anything. You owe yourself something. I do this because I love it, not because I have to. I coach guys because I love it. I love to see them transform and go from shy to confident and cool. I love it when I see them succeed with gorgeous women.

If you can’t get women to stay and talk to you, then what you have is an attraction problem. That you can work on.

If you can get women’s interest initially, but then they lose interest soon there after or flake, chances are you have a problem with emotionally connecting in rapport. That’s something you can learn to do as well.

As I stated in the above article, if you can’t get attraction or rapport, then qualification won’t work for you.

I can’t change you from here. There is only so much I can do in blog comments. From blog comments, I can’t analyze your entire game or pick out exactly what’s holding you back in your interactions. And I certainly can’t do it if you have an ingrained belief that none of this works.

Eric

The J says:

You’re not an ass, you’re just doing everything you can to prove to yourself that your limiting belief is right.

“why would an attractive woman who could have any man she wants qualify herself to say an average man?”

She wants a man that can make her feel emotions she want to feel. That’s it. “Average” guys can do that.

Google Sean Stephenson. Specifically look for a video of his appearance in David DeAngelo’s Man Transformation.

Kevin says:

How can an average do that beyond all these routines we are taught? I have tried hundreds of them and I am called stupid or laughed at and not in a friendly way. I can tease well, banter well but somehow I cannot get attraction. I get alot – “you are such a great guy, you will find someone great for you”…I even escalate like I should (kino). So I really wonder?

So as an average guy, I have tried all this stuff and then I think – qualification? Its like trying to travel at the speed of light when I can only get to 40 miles per hour.

I have read Sean Stephenson’s stuff. His show was on Bio channel on Sunday night called “3ft. Giant.” Great guy. I have the Man Transformation program (Lance Mason, Brad P,ect are on that too) and other Deangelo products with Sean. He has his demons and I have mine.

Ryan says:

@Kevin

There’s a concept in sociology called the “looking glass self” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Looking_glass_self). A professor once summed it up to me like this: “You are not what you think you are. YOU are what YOU think other people think YOU are.” If you keep thinking that all these women see you as AFC when you walk up to them, then you’re going to keep getting AFC reactions.

I’m sad for you because while it seems you’re legitimately trying to better yourself (unlike the keyboard jockeys BradP mentioned), it’s not working out for you. I’ll admit I’m not a PUA, but this stuff ought to work for you much more often than your stated success rate. Maybe you should find some wings in your area who aren’t pros and go out with them and see what they say about your approaches. If you ARE trying hard, then there IS something wrong. And whatever is causing you to fail 124 out of 125 times shouldn’t take a mPUA to figure it out.

Or maybe you just need to quit this stuff for a while and start over, because something just isn’t clicking for you.

Eric Disco says:

@Kevin, et al., Thanks for posting. I’m closing discussion here on this particular topic. If there are any comments or questions about the original article on qualification, feel free to post them here. Otherwise, the Forum is available for longer discussions about personal issues. Feel free to start a new topic there.

Eric

denzel says:

Where do u get the images?

Eric says:

Where do u get the images?

Most of the images, if you click on them will take you to the website of the artist.

Eric

[...] How to get HER chasing YOU – A great post on qualifying by Eric Disco Grow Your Game: [...]

George says:

About trying to impress women – there is a mathematical proof on why trying to impress women fails http://eCa.sh/Voce

lina says:

I think you should take a more mature approach to this. It’s not a particularly ‘kind’ thing to try to make a woman chase you and in any case you are still ‘waiting for a result’. You cannot play games for life. Instead of playing games, try to get to know us (women) as people. It’s doing things like this – putting women (any person) on a pedestal/seeing the person as a ‘target’ – that creates anxiety and distance. You need to feel relaxed with women – all types of women. Start there. Make ‘yourself’ the target, not her. I know the aim of the website is to develop your ‘game’ (as distasteful as i find it) but I think finding a woman non-platonically should be the last port of call. If you are relaxed with women and actually enjoy them then you will not feel desperate for them. Rapport, confidence, enjoyment and not feeling desperate should be the aim. Baby steps.

As for women going for good looking men. Men are the same. Both are the same and some guys can be a lot worse but it’s actually getting to relax with people and getting to know them that enables you to see that there are different people who go for different things. When you are distanced from people, it’s very easy to categorize and see what you believe but it’s getting to really know people (not just a surface snapshot) that changes that.

Jake says:

Lina – we are only doing what women have been doing to us for centuries. Women make us chase them and if we are fortunate we are able to date them. If not, then we are taken advantage of and dropped after our “Value” has gone.

Women start this at an early age. Little Johnny likes little Suzy but he sees Bad Boy Bobby tease and taunt little Suzy and Little Johnny does not get the girl. He then emulates what Bad Boy Bobby does and tries it himself. It may or may not work but that is what he does…

I agree that adulthood should be the end of that but lots of times it is not. Women play some very cruel games at times so men just try different variations.

What is your take on that?

lina says:

‘Women’ (the category) haven’t been doing anything to you, though. You’re not forced to ‘chase’. It’s a choice. I don’t ‘make’ men chase me – none of my friends do. So I don’t fit into your stereotype yet I am still a woman. This is what I mean about actually mixing with women – different types of women not just “hot” ones – as a way of seeing women outside of a game. It’s extremely important for both genders. I feel you need a more fair and honest perspective of women and maybe need to stop listening to or hanging out with the more shallow ones because otherwise all you will experience is confirmation bias.

In your ‘little suzy’ example, Suzy goes for Bobby because he reminds her of her father who’s an abusive a$$ (‘familiarity’). Her life will be miserable until she understands that she can have better (my neighbour is like this and she is an abusive relationship – she isn’t happy). Not everybody is like her. You don’t tap into people’s weaknesses/pain and use them to your advantage. You say (if you do like her as a person) ‘I can be a role model for this woman as a man. Whilst I may not date her, I want her to know that not all men are like Bobby’. That is called a friendship because she does not have all of the qualities you want in a romantic partner. You find the person who has the qualities that you want. The problem is not believing that person exists. I would also like to point out that many, many women will outright reject Bobby. If you behave like Bobby you will have unhealthy and unhappy relationships and can never ‘relax’ and find a deep connection with your partner.

I don’t see men and women as being different. Men play some seriously psychologically messed up games too. Everything you have said about women I have said about men for so long now (women get badly rejected too and feel pain). It is a human trait, not a gender specific one. To have an enjoyable life it has to be less about ‘us and them’ and more about ‘what I would like for myself as an individual’ and ‘how I can have a different experience of the “opposite” sex’). This is my goal now.

Jake says:

Lina,

Women do not get rejected like men at least attractive women. An attractive woman can have just about any man she wants (excluding happily married or gay men or maybe a guy who is overly religious). All she has to do is start talking to the dude and she can have the guy. I see this often. Especially in my city (big metro US town). Attractive women use men like toilet paper just like they accuse men of doing. A man does not have that luxury or power most of the time. He has to really work for it and sometimes kill himself thru work and determination just to have a possible chance.

Yes I have seen men play games. But it is so funny. The women seem to enjoy it. They seem to stay with they guy even if there is no children or finances involved.

Sorry but women (especially attractive women) have it much easier in dating and always will. This is why all this community “Game” stuff has surfaced. Its a way to help “equalize” things. At least that is what we are told. I have not seen it work for me but I hear it does work for guys.

Women have it far easier. There is no way you can refute that.

Jake says:

Another thing. Ok Bobby might be messed up or have psychological issues abut at least he has had the chance to date attractive women or even marry them. At least he had his day in the sun.

Johnny might never have that. So at least Bobby was able to date the women he wanted. That is the whole bottom line here.

Cameron says:

Thanks for you feedback Lina. Its always nice to hear a womans perspective.

logic says:

Jake,

“Sorry but women (especially attractive women) have it much easier in dating and always will. This is why all this community “Game” stuff has surfaced. Its a way to help “equalize” things. At least that is what we are told. I have not seen it work for me but I hear it does work for guys.”

This site is honed in on enabling men to have sex specifically with ‘hot’ women. The site really is not about getting to know women, it is more about solidifying the societally accepted stereotype of what a hot woman is and how to ‘lay’ that. And the truth of the matter, which our minds are trained by society to ignore is that ‘hot’ ‘attractive’ looking women wear make up and pluck their eyebrows and wax their bodies in order to look ‘hot’ and ‘attractive’ the way they percieve everyone wants them to be. So when you say “All she has to do is start talking to the dude and she can have the guy.” it does not take into account that if she were really just herself, and by that I mean herself the way she actually looks and would look without all the physical alterations, would she still just ‘have’ that guy?

Every blog on this site has a ‘unreal’ image of a desired female and all of these images are not simply human. They don’t present women as they really are.

Jake, you are infected like everyone on the planet, including myself, is infected with what an ideal woman is – and this is based on the way she looks superficially.

So when you say
“Bobby might be messed up or have psychological issues abut at least he has had the chance to date attractive women or even marry them. At least he had his day in the sun.”

You are fooled into believing that you will actually be happy and fulfilled if you’re with someone society deems attractive. What you are truly seeking is to be loved and accepted, and you believe that if you are with a hot woman, and she lets you have sex with her, that you will be accepted. But what does a hot woman have to do with love and acceptance. Nothing. What it does have to do with is that by having sex with a hot women, all the other men women and people around will seem to worship you more – you percieve that society will respect you if you have sex with what they respect. So at the core, Bobby doesnt want to date those women because he wants to date them. He wants to date those women because it will uplift his status in society. Which is what you believe you want. But it’s not. You just want to be given some respect. And love. Genuinely.

Jake says:

Logic,

I have to say I just like how hot women look. I do. I mean I like looking at playboy centerfolds. Is that because I want to feel better about myself by looking at them? No, I just enjoy their beauty.

I have plenty of respect via work, my career, my family, my friends, my hobbies. I do not need any more respect than I need friends. I have been blessed that way. I just want to date beautiful women. Thats it. And I have not found a good way to do it no matter what I have tried.

I think Eric does represent women in a good way with the images and such. I love his cartoons of women. Great stuff and artsy. We as men long to date hot women. If we did not, then women would not wear make up, we would not work hard – our entire basic economy would fall apart. Why? Its our urge to do so. Look at history. Look at Samson, look at Marc Antony all brought down by hot women. Did they do that for respect? NO! They did it for it was a natural thing for them to do. Its called being human.

Very plain and simple. Nothing more, nothing less.

logic says:

Do you want to live a life where your untimate goal is to strive towards truth, because you believe truth is what will make you happier and more unfulfilled than untruths?

If not, then your perception: “I have to say I just like how hot women look. I do. I mean I like looking at playboy centerfolds. Is that because I want to feel better about myself by looking at them? No, I just enjoy their beauty.” and this all being “Very plain and simple. Nothing more, nothing less.” is fine for you.

To me, I believe what makes human beings feel ultimately the most happy and fullfilled is having a life based on truth and so the pursuit of truth is the best thing for them. I believe it is in our nature to seek knowlege. Knowledge is governed by truth. So, no matter which way or from which angle you look at it, truth is, centrefold models wear makeup, wax all the hair off their body that is deemed unattractive and the images are airbrushed afterwards, and the end result of the way she looks ‘hot’ is not how she looks naturally. If you feel the end result of unnatural and untruthful process is beautiful, your definition of beauty is different to what I believe should be the definition of beauty. I believe beauty should be based on truth. But in saying this, I know that right now, I myself am heavily afflicted by untruths and am susceptible to believing that the way a centrefold model looks is what is the most beautiful woman, even though there are inherent dishonesty’s about that image. I know this is wrong and I don’t want to be afflicted by it. I want to see any human being, regardless of the way they look, as beautiful if they are indeed beautiful based on criteria based in truth. Not criteria based on what makes magazines and products sell well.

logic says:

Typo correction: I meant to say “fulfilled” not “unfulfilled” in the first sentence:
“… truth is what will make you happier and more fulfilled than untruths?”

lina says:

As a woman I can absolutely refute that women have it easier. If you are ONLY talking about women YOU find attractive (“attractive women” is a bit of a strange term) then you should specify that every single time you talk about them instead of using the term “women” because you are not even paying attention to or talking about all women – just the ones you find ‘hot’. So now we can agree that you’re talking only about women you are sexually attracted to and we can separate those from “all women”. (Women do get rejected by men and do feel pain because we’re human but you don’t see us that way. You see women as objects (beings to look at)which is a real problem because you cannot humanise “them” and you only pay attention to a small selection of ‘them’. I have attractive friends who have been hurt and who do not use men (as a data point)).

So if you’re only talking about women you’re attracted to – you make the assumption that their lives are easy. You say this because they can “have any man they want”. Now, you’re making the assumption that what a woman wants in life in order to be happy or fulfilled is to receive attention. Why do you think this?

“The women seem to enjoy it” is a very scary perspective and only your perception. If someone says ‘hit me’ it doesn’t mean that you do it. Like I said above, it’s called familiarity. If you come from an abusive household that feels normal – it feels like chemistry. It’s seriously messed up for a woman or man to think of abuse as normality. That is dangerous and unhealthy and not someone you should even want to be with. You need to see that. It is not a luxury or power to ‘use’ people – it’s a horrible characteristic and ‘power’ is not important – connection is. You don’t think so because you haven’t felt it which is why I say befriend women properly as people so you can humanise us. It’s essential. Your perspective is far too one sided.

I agree with all that logic has said. I am inspired by it, even. I think as humans we trust our ‘tastes’ and think of them as reality whereas a lot of what we ‘see’ (or our relationship with it) has been corrupted by media and the people around us who reinforce it every minute and hour of every day. We also develop habits that reinforce it (e.g. porn – although im not ‘against’ porn, i think it’s reinforcement). Everyone has their beauty and it is up to us to see it. I do want to say though Jake that regardless of who you do see beauty in, understand that you can experience it without having to resort to behaving like Bobby. Bobby has the temporary appearance of being strong (or at least not needy/desperate) to a ‘messed up’ woman but he is weak/childlike to women who have grown up in healthy households. Different women see men in diffferent ways. You may tailor your behaviour to attract the type of women that Bobby gets but you can turn off a woman who is healthy. Do you want love and connection or do you just want sex? It counts either way.

btw women put on make up and dress up because it has a Romantic appeal (by Romantic I mean – like a fantasy). It is very rarely sexual (in the media it is presented differently though because the media is a business). I understand that for men there is a sexual connotation there but it’s a mistake to assume it is because of sexual attraction. It just isn’t (unless she is obviously needy but even then i can bet she is looking to feel valued rather than recieve attention for its own sake). It’s fun for us – like kids dressing up. We pluck, we shave etc. because we are told we are not valuable/worthy unless we do. When you know women as friends, you stop making assumptions. I am in a similar place to you because right now I feel that men only see women as sexual objects and don’t care about women who are not conventionally attractive etc. and of course guys like you reinforce that idea for me however I feel I am not experienced enough to pass it off as truth. Guys like logic help me ‘challenge’ my beliefs. Men are varied. Women are varied. We don’t think so because we don’t know “them” as people.

lina says:

god that was so long – sorry!

Axel says:

I don’t think I will apologise for my lack of attraction for a woman who does not meet my standards as far as both personality and personal health is concerned (personal health of course meaning body size and hygiene and so forth).

I do confess being a sucker for a pretty face, mind you. I have, however, always been steadfast in that physical appearence should never be the sole criteria for my assesment of women, and I always look out to catch a glance of their personality.

For instance: If a woman smokes cigarettes, it will display her own stupidity and lack of caring for her own health and her surroundings, as well as the fact that she caves to peer pressure, which is not something I want in a mate. This in addition to cigarettes being disgusting.
To this date, four women have made me attracted to them despite smoking, by virtue of their fun personality as well as their smile and grace. They are not potential mates though.

Contrary wise, I find myself very attracted to women’s smiles, and not just because their smiles are pretty. If a girl smiles genuine smiles a lot and makes it her business to make other people a little happier by smiling at them, this shows her outgoing, candid, honest, sweet and kind disposition, and that is very attractive.

To me it is never simply a question wether a girl is hot or not.

And regardless of my attraction I still try to get to know women and appreciate them for who they are, like with all people. It’s just that I’m cautious around women I’m not attracted to, because I don’t want them to be attracted to me and to come on to me, because that just’s a pile of grief when that happens.

Jake says:

I agree. I am not apologizing for anything. I like hot women and always will. I am inquisitive by nature and like to learn. I ask a million questions but I come up with good solutions. I will acknowledge when I am not rational and I will apologize when I am wrong. Here is a great quote on all this as pertaining to women and men:

Jack Nicholson from “As Good As It Gets”:

Woman: How do you write women so well?

Jack: I think of a man and I take away reason and accountability.

I think that pretty much says it all.

Payet says:

“I think of a man and I take away reason and accountability.” Translation: Women are dumb. Brilliant! You’re so original! Wow, never in my life have I heard women called stupid so… so eloquently! I’m sure women love you.

logic says:

“Woman: How do you write women so well?

Jack: I think of a man and I take away reason and accountability.

I think that pretty much says it all.”

Very derogatory towards women.

Jake says:

Yes its true for the most part. Absolutely. I would not say that for all, for that would be derogatory, but for the most part absolutely.

Women think with emotions for the most part. Men with logic for the most part. Its the way we are wired. Political correctness has only been around for a few years. Our wiring has been around for thousands…with a name like “logic” I would think you would “feel” that…lol…

logic says:

Jake, by your own self admittance you have stated that you like ‘hot’ women and you have not addressed any of my points that challenge your perspective. You still have not answered my main question:

Do you want to live a life where your untimate goal is to strive towards truth, because you believe truth is what will make you happier and more fulfilled than untruths?

From your subsequent reactions it is clear to me that you didnt answer this question because you don’t want to. Which is a rather ‘emotional’ way of dealing with it according to me.

In the end, its clear you and I just have different priorities in life. Whatever the difference, all the best to you.

Jake says:

I thought I actually had answered it.

Here is round 2:

My truth is to be happy and have a full life. Academically, family wise, friend wise, professionally, spiritually, health (thank God) I am doing very well. The one piece missing is beautiful women in my life. My truth is to find one in my life that I like.

That is my truth for the moment.

logic says:

Jake, you are not only trying to evade my point, you are manipulating my question now. I was clearly not asking about ‘your’ version of truth nor was I alluding to it – I think you know this. This conversation really is getting pointless, and I did not want to keep pressing my point because as I have said already, we have different priorities, so there really is no purpose, but you are not willing to accept that and move on.

Your reality is ultimately going to include untruths, because your main criteria for finding a compatible woman is one who is superficially ‘hot’ to you, not one who will be your mental and emotional equal. Even your statement “My truth is to find one in my life that I like” is flawed according to me because it is absent of love. But if you really just want to be with someone hot who you ‘like’, I am not condemning you for it, that is your choice. For me, I want mutual love and respect, but I am aware that currently, I am not ready to be in a relationship that encompasses those things, though that is what I ultimately desire.

lina says:

You forgot to add “…in my opinion”. To say that women think with emotions and men think with logic is the kind of comment made by someone who is not experienced. I continue to state my point – mix with women properly (as people) and experience them without preconceived notions of ‘who they are’. Many men are highly emotional creatures and many women are highly logical. Society pushes us into certain roles (esp. through ‘shame’) so that we hide/disguise these aspects of ourselves. That does not mean that they are not there within us all. Gender does not affect your ability to reason or feel emotion. It’s not only a derogatory statement but very nasty and highly old fashioned for good reason in that it holds absolutely no weight. I hope that there are no women in your life who you can influence with that opinion because you will sadly limit them and their experience of life.

If you actually genuinely believe that women are without reason and accountability then why bother with women? You clearly do not even like women. You just want to walk around with a woman on your arm? You just want sex? Ok, now suddenly you have a ‘beautiful’ woman in front of you. What do you want from her? What do you want to give her? What can you offer her? How can she enjoy being with a man who thinks she is illogical? What would she get from that?

You are solely responsible for your experiences in life. If you have met women who are illogical then you attracted them to you. It is clear that you are not willing to even look beyond where/who you currently are to attract what you want. If you don’t even like women as people and are not open to even seeing that women are not ‘set characters based on genetics’ but actual people with varied characters then you should pay for a high-class hooker because you only want an object. I don’t mean that rudely but honestly. This way money is the currency – it’s easy and requires no effort. You don’t have to change and she doesn’t have to change. Personality is irrelevant. If you don’t want to be with a hooker then it means you’re looking for more than just ‘being with a beautiful woman’. You’re looking for acceptance, to be valued by something you value – really, a relationship (a way to relate). Even if it’s just sex, you want to relate. No human will want to relate to you if you do not truly value them beyond their physical appearance. Nothing is just about appearances.

I think continuing the conversation is futile at this point, Jake, if you are closed off to the world around you. I would question you when you say you are doing well spiritually as it does not appear that you have really ‘started’ on that course. I hope for your sake you experience something where you have no choice but to open up and change your perception of women. Friendships with varied women is the only thing I could even suggest at this point unless you actively remove yourself from your environment, travel, try a meditation retreat – you need to let yourself go because your experiences are limited and have thus created strong limited beliefs. Find female friends. Loads. Different types of women (I don’t mean hair colour but character). No sexual agenda (ignore their faces). Experience them. Make yourself do this. As long as you know women as people you will know that you don’t have to play games to go out with them. Women are no different from you. Good luck to you.

Nicole says:

Yeah…why don’t we leave Jack to the “Witches” of Eastwick…

I think you are so right…..The moment a woman feels that a guy do not evaluate her in any way and are just doing everything he can to please her despite her behavior that is where a woman losses respect for a guy…

Girl #1 says:

Cool now I know your tactics! :D

Lee says:

@Girl #1

It’s great that you’ve figured out our tactics, but now what are you going to do, date spineless jellyfish? The truth is that guys who adore you for every word you utter are BORING, and the smartest girls know it. They want a man who will present a bit of a challenge, a man for whom they have to make a little effort. It’s been said that the most valuable women are looking for a man worthy of their surrender. A woman never wins by wrapping a man around her finger.

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