Six Myths the Nice Guy Believes

by Eric Disco
Sep 16

The nice guy.

His world is held together by certain ingrained beliefs.

These beliefs cause him to fail with women.

Here’s a closer look at the myths the nice guy believes and what to do instead.

Myth 1: Being nice makes women feel better.

The nice guy is always on the lookout for other people’s feelings.

He tends to treat women like they’re weak, fragile creatures that will crumble if he isn’t extra careful with her.

Picture the scene. You just met her. You ended up having an amazing night with her. Morning roles around and you have stuff to do.

You could say “Hey baby, I’m really sorry, but I gotta do some stuff today, so I can’t really hang out in bed with you much more. Is that okay?”

Or you could say “Alright I’m kicking you out!” with a wink and a smack on the ass.

The first way turns her stomach. If the fact that you have things to do doesn’t bother her, it will make her feel like a child.

If she is sad that you have to get out of bed so soon, the first way will make her feel worse because she senses how you feel about it.

You feel bad, so she feels bad.

This isn’t to say that you should never think about her feelings. But 95% of the time, the nice guy is needlessly probing how she feels.

He’s expecting her to be hurt every time he asserts himself. This annoys her to no end.

Instead take the lead and let her know how you feel. She can respond how she wants. She’s a grown-up.

Myth 2: Getting smarter, more confident, or learning how people react will take the mystery out of Love and therefore render Love less likely to happen.

Ah, the blind idealistic naivet«± of my youth. In a way it was beautiful.

Every once in a while I would fall hopelessly in love with a woman who treated me like garbage. And I had no idea why.

It was nice because I didn’t need to take responsibility.

I could just wallow in the pathetic predicament that the stars, the universe, god, her or anyone else had put me in.

I could blame everyone but myself. I didn’t have to experience the anxiety of changing my situation and possibly failing.

I didn’t have to risk doing anything that could possibly lay blame on myself for my failures.

Learning to be better and smarter with women does not render Love less likely to happen.

Part of becoming better with women is becoming more in tune with how you feel. It is about feeling more at the appropriate time and place.

This renders not only Love, but true happiness much more likely to happen.

Myth 3: There is a fine line between being assertive and being aggressive.

Assertive is good, the thinking goes, because you never step into someone else’s boundaries.

Aggressive is bad–bordering on criminal–because to cross someone else’s boundaries is wrong.

In reality, there is no “line” between assertive and aggressive. There is no way that you can be completely unobjectionable and not step over anyone’s boundaries.

Almost any initiative you take can be construed as overstepping her boundaries, from walking up to her and talking to her, to holding her hand on the first date.

It is impossible to explicitly ask permission every time you take initiative with her.

You can and must respect her when she declines, and you should be reading her signals, but being a bit more aggressive than you have been in the past is part of getting better with women.

Myth 4: If you are in a relationship, regardless of how happy you are, you as a guy need to settle for who you’re with, because wanting more means that you are a bad person.

This is more of a feeling than an outright assertion for nice guys.

You are with a girl. Somehow you got into an exclusive relationship with her. You care about her. But you aren’t happy.

And you decide to stay in it because you feel like to want more means that you are mean or bad or you want too much.

Staying in an unhappy relationship does not serve her or yourself.

As much as she may be into you, if you aren’t happy with her, it is better for everyone involved if you end the relationship, no matter how much temporary pain it may cause both of you.

Myth 5: Not moving into an exclusive relationship with a woman you’re seeing means that you are tricking her or that you had false pretenses.

There are a lot of ‘shoulds’ for the nice guy.

He feels like he should be nice to her.

He feels like he should get her flowers.

He feels like he should check how she’s feeling.

He feels like he should commit to her.

You’re “shoulding” all over her.

No woman wants to be with a guy who is constantly doing things because he feels he should do them.

Getting better with women is about learning to get in touch with your own feelings and what you want.

She may not want an exclusive relationship. She may be happy with where things are.

She may not be ready for a relationship.

Or if she does express interest in taking things to the next level, you may not be ready it.

To assume an exclusive relationship is always the best thing right now risks strangling her feelings or yours.

Myth 6: Having become more confident or acted more aggressive, you are missing out on opportunities you would have had if you had been “nice.”

As a former nice guy, there is always a lingering thought in the back of my mind that I am missing out on that “special” girl who would have just happened to come along if I had only sat and waited instead of become more confident.

This is perhaps one of the most powerful myths of all.

Why?

If you ask what Western civilization’s dominant religion is, most people would answer Christianity.

But there is a religion that is much stronger and more influential.

It’s the western ideal of True Love.

It’s the idea that everyone of us has that perfect mate out there and she will come along sooner or later if we just “be ourselves.”

Almost every romantic comdedy, action adventure and Disney movie has convincingly preached this idea to us since we were children.

This myth tells us that if we are unobjectionable enough and keep doing what we’re doing, Love will come to us. It’s not something you can go out and find.

It’s true that if you become more confident and take more initiative you will experience a lot more rejection than if you are the shy, introspective guy hiding in a corner with a beer in his hand.

And some “techniques” are slimy. Some things you try will turn women off.

But you know from past experience that what you were doing wasn’t working.

Part of the growth process for any endeavor is pushing yourself to do what you were previously uncomfortable doing.

Have some faith in yourself to be able to sort the good from the bad.

You are a real, thinking, feeling human being that can discern when something feels wrong.

Contrary to your fearful inclination, more niceness is not the solution.

True confidence in yourself and your own feelings is the solution.

You can become a confident, independent man who loves and feels for women without being overly care-taking and mushy.

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posted in Attraction, Initiative and Inhibition

COMMENTS
29 responses
Doodle2 says:

Hay Eric,

You’re robably getting bored of this but that was brilliant. I loved the last point as well.

I don’ know about others on here but I digest more information in the form of a list.

Stephen

John-e says:

What I’ve learned:

A woman would rather be offended, than supplicated.

Joshua says:

Damn, my last relationship I just came out of reeks of all those nice-guy mistakes, I’ve made all of them, wow…

My question is, how do I go from being that Nice guy to more well-rounded and confident? I ask because in my last relationship, I would be all hot-and-cold with her. One minute, I’m super-nice and I’m inviting her over everyday, going out to eat alot, watching sappy love movies with her, letting her cry to me about her problems, having sex with her like 3 times a day, etc. to me ending up feeling smothered and ignoring her for days at a time while I dove back into my usual hobbies to feel like myself again. I kind of kept bouncing between these 2 extremes till the infatuation she had with me wore off and she left me.

I realize what I’m doing isn’t working obviously, but I’m lost as to ideas on how to break out of that nice-guy shell without going to the extreme other end of the spectrum.

Ishmael says:

Dude – pretty much none of your mistakes can be classified as ‘nice-guy mistakes’.

FACT #1: Nice guys don’t ‘get’ sex 3 times a day (ever), no matter what ‘extreme’ they happen to be on.

FACT #2: Nice guys actually LIKE watching sappy love movies with a girl – it’s like, too good to be true, man.

FACT #3: ‘Letting’ a girl cry about her problems is not something a nice guy would feel good about (I’m thinking YOU actually enjoyed it – you sick f$#k)

FACT #4: Nice guys never feel smothered by girls outside of their family – nice guys love girls – the more the merrier – bring on the girls, yeah!

FACT #5: Nice guys don’t ignore anyone. They are almost always the ones who are being ignored, hence why ‘nice guys’ are so neurotic…YOU try being chronically ignored and then tell me what it feels like, you moron.

FACT #6: Nice guys have no way of measuring a girl’s infatuation towards them – it’s like trying to measure the radius of an expanding universe, not even knowing if the universe is circular or flat, or tube-like, etc…

My advice to you, ‘Joshua’ (if that is indeed your real name) – go see a psychiatrist immediately, because you don’t know what the heck you are…and at present you are a danger to society, especially women. This is one point where MAYBE you would connect with the nice guy mentality, at best.

Good luck.
I

Demi_God69 says:

I found this article on Twitter from a broad that was calling your advise bullshit.

However you are 100% correct.

Spooked says:

This may be off-topic, and perhaps irrelevant for a lot of folks here, but as I read Myth 1, I found myself thinking: “I can’t picture the scene.”

Now I’m no Don Juan, but I’ve on occasion had an opportunity arise where going home with some girl seems plausible. The only time I ever “let it happen” was when we discovered we had some pretty deep things in common, and I figured Hey, I’m not afraid to be the _real me_ around her.

On one other occasion (I know, I’ll cut the life story short here…), it was with an acquaintance, and instead of picking up on her cues at her place, I found myself in the awkward position where her roommate brought home a guy, the four of us were chatting, and I found an excuse to bail.

Anyway, I’d be thrilled to hear if “take home anxiety” is correlated with “approach anxiety,” and if so, it’s something people find a reason to overcome.

I’m not looking to “take home babes,” so it is kind of funny that I still have a deep desire to _be able to_ without anxiety. Am I crazy?

Axel says:

That’s interesting, Spooked. I can relate to what you’re saying, and you sound perfectly sane to me, haha.

I’d also like to hear thoughts on the problem you mention.

Eric Disco says:

Anyway, I’d be thrilled to hear if “take home anxiety” is correlated with “approach anxiety,” and if so, it’s something people find a reason to overcome.

Approach anxiety is usually the biggest and most notable fear a guy will encounter when trying to improve his lot with women.

However, there are host of other secondary fears and anxieties at every stage of the game. If you can open a conversation with her, you may be afraid to stay in there and continue the interaction.

If you can stay in and get into a conversation, you may be afraid to sexually escalate or banter or amp up the interaction in some way, like trying to take her on an instant date or take her home.

Those secondary fears tend to be more of a fear of loss. You are afraid to do something because you don’t want to risk ruining the interaction or turning her off.

By the way, saying something like “I’m kicking you out” is often as useful when you are in a relaitonship as when you have just met someone. If you are too nice and over-sensitive in a relationship, it will make her feel just as lame.

Eric

Spooked says:

Thanks for the response, Eric.

I’m really gonna have to think more about this “kicking you out” thing. Early in one relationship I was in such a position, and telling her that okay, time’s up, I’m late for something apparently made her feel used. In fact, it reinforced her notion that I was a “player,” a fact which was easily debunked by the math books littered across my dinner table.

I would have tried to do it with more of a smile… or maybe a sly grin… or a… I don’t know, but it sounds like it takes a bit of je ne sais quoi to actually be an improvement over the “nice” approach. I would practice being “mean” without being mean if only I could find opportunities.

Anonymous_Coward says:

Thanks for that, Eric. I think number 3 is where a lot of my hang-ups come from. I’m a pacifist, I think that aggressive action is inherently wrong. I can’t bring myself to cross anyone’s boundaries without some kind of excuse or justification that doing so will be as desirable for the other party as it is for me – effectively, I feel like I need to know that an interaction will be successful before I initiate it, or else it’s immoral. That’s what I’ve been looking for in the pua community – some kind of idea as to how I can become deeper, more interesting or more admirable so that hitting on women is a favour rather than an imposition or an act of aggression. I’ve not found that yet.

Bernie Frank says:

I agree with all this, nice guys are no fun to be with and I can usually spot them when they approach me before they even open their mouths. More guys should read this- get the word out!!

Wim says:

@Anonymous_Coward September 27th, 2009 at 5:59 am:
> so that hitting on women is a favour rather than an imposition or an act of aggression.

The very fact that you’re interested in her is the biggest compliment you can give her.

You don’t need to look for an idea to make it admirable. It already is.

3-D says:

Long ago I had a lot of this summed up by a shrink that finally broke my Nice Guy ™ for me. He listened for a while, then summed everything up in one short statement: “You treat every woman the way you treat your mother. That doesn’t give women any sense of you WANTING them sexually, and that’s ultimately the difference between friendship and closer relationships: sexual attraction. You have to make them feel wanted in every way, including sexually. She taught you to think that way, because she wants a nice well-mannered son.”

Remember Nice Guys, you treat her like you treat your mother, and she’ll find somebody who doesn’t. And it won’t even necessarily be treating her like crap. He’ll just make her feel attractive where you don’t.

Mom was wrong, your balls are right. Make the women feel attractive.

dave says:

3-D – I have heard psycholgists and psychiatrists say that to well-adjsted, reasonable guys. Here is the difference. After the next guy beats the tar out of her and gives her two black eyes, THEN You will feel GREAT!

KL says:

Dave, you’re creating a false choice. You don’t have to choose between a wimpy nice guy or a violent brute. It’s bullshit. This is a way for guys who are too afraid to take social and sexual risks to make excuses for their behavior.

Believe it or not, women really do want to have sex with men. Strange, I know.

Mickey says:

@KL:

“Believe it or not, women really do want to have sex with men.”

Really? Coulda fooled me!!!

Lee says:

Yes, Mickey, women hate sex. The following statistics are made up by evil pickup artists looking to rip you off.

From Wikipedia:

According to the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, in the year 2007, 35% of US high school students were currently sexually active and 47.8% of US high school students reported having had sexual intercourse.[3] This percentage has decreased slightly since 1991.[4] While some researchers suggest that teens are increasingly engaging in oral sex,[5] other studies indicate that there has been little change in either oral sex or vaginal sexamong teen opposite-sex partners over the past decade.[6][7] A minority, 13%, of children aged 15 have experiencedvaginal sex.[8]

Lee says:

What KL said about your post is dead on. I also want to comment on your idea that a man should feel some satisfaction when a woman who rejects him finally gets her comeuppance. That is one of the most twisted thoughts I have ever heard. No man should ever feel good when a woman is beaten, even if this outcome is a result of her own bad choices. Only when you are able to let go of this hatred of women who reject you will you stop taking these rejections personally, which is an absolute prerequisite for success with women. Dude, evil thoughts like this one – joy for the pain felt by others – eat your soul and prevent you from being the man women can love.

–Lee

Mickey says:

@Lee:

I’m 49 years old. I don’t think I need to know about the sexual stats of high schoolers.

Lee says:

Here are the stats for frequency of sex of adults in your age range (from the Kinsey Institute):

http://www.kinseyinstitute.org/resources/FAQ.html#frequency

Adults in between ages 25 and 49 have more sex than the teenagers in the previous study I posted. Why don’t you just face it, dude, women love sex. They have as much of it as they can, sometimes even risking serious personal and financial disaster to do it. Just because you can’t get laid doesn’t mean people aren’t getting laid. People are getting laid a lot. Ok, I get it, you’ve made a decision that you don’t want to try anymore. That’s fine too. But don’t go blaming your situation on the fact that women don’t like sex. It’s just not true.

–Lee

Mickey says:

Lee:

We’ll have to agree to disagree here. One person’s “resignation” can always be another person’s “bitterness”.

Lee says:

We can disagree on your motives, but we can’t disagree on the stats. They speak for themselves. Women love sex, and they have plenty of it. Some of them would have sex with you if you knew how to make it appealing to them.

dave says:

I had a feeling that someone was going to run with that. If you do not play,then you do not GET rejected, and you speak only from your own experience and observation, not someone else’s.
So if you have NEVER been out on a date, never kissed a woman, never gone near ANY of them, it is even more perplexing to read the stories, and then WONDER how women reject some guys ( whoever they may be) and choose others who beat them up.
How about less hammering guys about not “taking social risks” and more for the guys who beat up the women.

KL says:

Yes, not taking risks ensures you will never lose. It also ensures you will never win. So I’m not sure what your point is on that.

I agree, if you’ve never been on a date or interacted with women, then it is absolutely no wonder you have a black/ white attitude about it.

Fact is, there are MANY more guys that are deficient in social skills (and bitter because of their own shortcomings, and projecting that frustration onto female bystanders whose only crime is not being interested in them) than guys who actually beat up women. So the former deserves a hell of a lot more attention, to us as dating coaches and students of attraction.

But yes, if somebody were to come on here advocating harming women, then you bet I would speak out against it. Never happens though. Views like yours are a lot more common.

dave says:

KL – I would disagree with you about the incidence of violence against women perpetrated by men they have “chosen”, but I also see a resignation, not bitterness, in guys who have seen that their nature is NO GOOD for this game, very well played, by you and Eric Disco.
You are describing, and offering, a very drastic change.
I, for one, have learned a lot about human nature in just seeing how your guys have been doing, and conversations I have never
personally had with anyone. It is really eye-opening!

KL says:

Well I’ve observed my own share of human nature, but I’ve also experienced a lot first hand. Nobody can reasonably say there are more violent men in relationships with women than there are men who are nervous and afraid of rejection. At least not in the typical Western country.

I come from a place of total incompetence with women and no skills in dating or seduction. I won’t speak for Eric, but you can read this site and he has a similar background.

It’s not about our “nature,” it’s about skill sets and habits we have developed through lots of practice and reflection.

It sounds like you have a lot of assumptions about “this game,” which are probably not accurate. Becoming more confident, having a more positive attitude, being bolder–that’s what I’m about. Aren’t those skills applicable to everyone?

Mickey says:

Lee:

My (perceived) motive and your statistics nothwithstanding, I guess it all comes down to one simple truth – when one doesn’t expect anything, one can never be disappointed.

JonathanA says:

@Mickey

That’s correct, and that’s why outcome independence is such an important concept. You cannot control other people’s behaviour, except maybe , at gunpoint for a short time.
However , you can have intelligent expectations towards yourself(check Eric’s book for instance). That’s what you have complete control over.
I am even older than you and I used to be very angry at unattractive women in general, because I blamed them to be the only ones I got a chance with. Right, that’s weird.
Now I can make beautiful women from barely legal to 45 attracted to me with a snap of my fingers.
But, that cost me years of damn hard work on myself.

JonathanA says:

forgot to mention

It’s easy to give up, everybody can do that.

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