10 Rules for the Perfect First Date

by Eric Disco
Apr 2

You just met an amazing girl.

Wow.

This girl is different from all the others.

You’ve been on dates before, but they didn’t really mean anything compared to this girl.

Now it’s ON!

All of a sudden you start to scramble.

Where to go? What to do?

You ask your friends. You search the internet.

What do you do on the perfect date????

Here are ten rules to make this simple and easy.

Spend as Little Money On Her As Possible. You don’t want to pick up an expensive tab for a woman. It sets up the wrong tone. If things happen, she wants to feel like she did it because she wanted to, not because she felt obligated. The date is about getting to know each other, not you showing off how much money you have. If we meet for drinks, I’ll pay for their first round. I’ll say “I’m paying for the first round; you pay for the next five.” And I let her pay for the next round of drinks. Believe me, it won’t put her in the poor house.

Never Take Her Out to Dinner On the First Date. If you pay for dinner, you end up pressuring her. If you split the bill, you could look cheap. But aside from this, if you’re sitting across from her having dinner, it leads into the traditional relationship where you’re a suitor and she’s evaluating you. Meeting for drinks or coffee sets you apart. You are seeing if you like her as much as she is seeing if she likes you.

Make It As Low-Pressure As Possible When you Invite Her Out. A “date” is a pressure cooker of expectations. When I set it up, I don’t call it a date. I tell her we’re meeting for “a drink”–singular–not “drinks.” I usually follow up the invitation with “and you better not get me drunk and take advantage of me” or “…if you think you can handle it.”

Don’t Take Her Out on a Friday or Saturday Night. On those nights, you’re competing with all the noise and all the partying. She will expect high-energy fun. I prefer a Thursday night or a Sunday night when the expectations are relaxed. Other non-weekend nights of the week are good also.

Take Her Somewhere Quiet. If you met her at a loud bar or club, you want to get her out of that environment for the date. You don’t want to meet up with her again at a loud place. You want to go somewhere quiet where you can sit and connect. The first date is for getting to know each other.

Take Her Somewhere Comfortable. Find a place with couches. You want to sit next to her, not across from her, so there can be a lot of physical contact. Avoid awkward hard chairs, or sitting across from each other at a table.

Take Your Dates to the Same Place Every Time. I take all my dates to the same place. It’s a cool bar, a little bit of a dive feel, but there’s artwork hanging up. There are couches in the back. And it’s usually not too loud. I’ve been going to this place for years. I’ve had a lot of success there, so I feel really comfortable there, like I’m in my living room.

Never Meet Up With Your Friends or Her Friends. Unless it was agreed on from the start that it would be that kind of date, do not meet up with her friends or your friends under any circumstances. It’s the kiss of death. If she wants to meet up with her friends, I would leave her at that point. It seems innocuous but I’ve had more than a few dates ruined by this. If she really likes you, she will be alone with you.

Find a Place Not Too Far from Your House. If things start to happen, you want to be within distance of your place. There is nothing wrong with going back to your place on the first date. If you do take her back to your place, you’ll want an excuse. Any old excuse will do. The idea is that you don’t want her to have to take responsibility for the interaction.

No Matter How Awesome and Special She Seems, Don’t Try to Make the Date Extra Exciting. When you meet a fucking amazing woman and you’re going to go out with her, you may feel like you have to take her on a really cool date, like jet skiing around the statue of liberty. And then trampolining in central park. No, I don’t care how fucking hot she is. Have boring drinks or coffee in your favorite spot.

This shows how much you value yourself that you can do something low-key on the first date. Sure, you could play pool or miniature golf or do karaoke. That’s okay.

But the point is that YOU are what’s interesting on the date. Your interaction with her should be the focus, not showing her a good time.

If she’s meeting with you for a date, she is already attracted to you. You don’t need to show her how fun you are by taking her somewhere exciting. In fact, the more boring the surroundings are, the more you can connect with each other and get to know each other.

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posted in First Dates

COMMENTS
117 responses
James says:

wow this is really cool. I never know what to do on first dates.

Ben says:

This is great stuff, Eric. Through some insane trial and error, I’ve managed to get most of these right. But I’ve broken all the rules before, often at once.

All of your posts and podcasts have been a huge help to me. Keep them coming.

AV says:

You have a lot of good ideas, but and I agree with all but the first one. As a woman, I would be slightly offended if a guy just expects me to pick up the tab for the next round. If I offer that’s one thing, but if he asked me out, he shouldn’t also be asking me to dip into my wallet. If I suggested we hang out it’s another story. Call me old fashioned, but its just IMO.

Verena says:

I think this is generally good advice, and yet the love of my life spent tons of money on our first date. However, he’s from another culture where they don’t date, so he really didn’t know what to do. One of my favorite things about him is that he’s brave enough to put himself in that kind of situation…

nahuk82 says:

Yea, as for the first date, tat is cool, wat happens after that, the 2nd and 3rd date. Do i follow the same list or is there more…thanks..nice comments BTw

pat says:

Any guy who announced that I had to pay for anything would see my backside instantly!That would be the end of the attraction .

Eric Disco says:

Any guy who announced that I had to pay for anything would see my backside instantly!That would be the end of the attraction .

You’re feisty, I like that!

Attraction has nothing to do with how much money you make or are willing to spend on her. Women are attracted to you for who you are as a person. They are attracted to your confidence and ability to lead. They are emotionally drawn to you when you can connect with her and challenge her–and appreciate her as a person.

If a woman insists that you need to spend a lot of money on her, you are doing the wrong thing. DO NOT spend a lot of money on women you do not know. That turns you into a sugardaddy. And no, sugardaddies don’t get laid. They get used for their money while their women sleep with bad boys like me.

You have a lot of good ideas, but and I agree with all but the first one. As a woman, I would be slightly offended if a guy just expects me to pick up the tab for the next round.

The first date is chill. Have a drink with her. The women I’m with usually offer to pay for the second round. That’s because I act like a challenge around them and everything is fun for them. Women want a challenge. They want to feel that if they were slightly less awesome than they are, they wouldn’t have gotten me. We all want that challenge.

Eric Disco says:

Yea, as for the first date, tat is cool, wat happens after that, the 2nd and 3rd date. Do i follow the same list or is there more…thanks..nice comments

For me, the second or third date is a bit different. I will sometimes do something a bit more fun, like play pool, or karaoke or whatever. But I do it because I want to have a good time. I already know her pretty well. The difference is that on the first date, you want to get to know her as a person. The point is that I am purposefully NOT trying to impress her on the first date. Trying to impress her on the first date makes me look desperate.

On the second or third date you still do not want to spend a lot of money on her. Spending a lot of money on a woman often backfires. If you are in a relationship with her, the situation changes. You still don’t want to shower her monetarily, but you can spend money on her in certain situations. The rules change a bit.  But this is after you are in a relationship.

jacob says:

wow, pat.

it doesn’t sound like you know what you’re talking about. it doesn’t sound like you know what you’re thinking. what it sounds like is you need to stop being such a snob. I hope every guy only ever sees you turn your backside.

Rudy says:

Great, now you tell me. Where were you 10 years ago!

Allie says:

For the most part I agree with you Eric, and this is speaking as a woman. But there are a few things I need to clarify:

On spending money on her:
I agree that you shouldn’t spend loads of money on her, especially early on. Take her somewhere inexpensive, that is totally fine. But you should still offer to pay, especially if you’re the one who asked her out. If she’s cool, she’ll offer to split it or buy a round, and if that’s the case, by all means let her. But be prepared to pay yourself. If you expect her to pay, she will get turned off, I can guarantee that.

On impressing her:
Trying too hard does make guys look desperate, but be careful that you try enough. If you don’t try to impress her (at all), you’ll seem disinterested, like she’s not anyone special and not worth his effort. Trust me, girls notice when you do little things to impress her (like hygiene, being a gentleman, dressing nicely, being interested in her). Girls usually spend hours trying to impress guys on the first date, by doing hair and makeup, getting the perfect outfit, etc, and we like guys to at least put in a bit of effort too.

On the location of a date:
There’s nothing wrong with going to a boring place for a date, but there is a huge difference between a boring venue and a boring date. If you are really into each other, a great conversation and a fun time can happen anywhere. But you run the risk of awkward moments. In any first date, people get nervous and sometimes say stupid things or don’t know what to talk about. The environment you are in can act as a buffer, providing distractions while you collect your thoughts and providing topics of conversation in a lull. The more boring a location, the riskier the date – could go terribly, could go amazing. If you want something safer, go somewhere a little more interesting.

Eric Disco says:

Thank you, Allie. Excellent clarifying comments. I totally agree.

Eric

John Doe says:

I’ve found great success taking girls bowling on a first date. You get to interact and have a lot of fun together – works everytime for me.

David says:

An extra point on not taking her out to dinner – You can’t really cut a dinner short if it’s not going well. You’ll probably be into the meal when you realize you want nothing to do with the person across from you, and at that point you still have to finish eating and wait for the bill. It’s a lot easier to extend a drink or a coffee than it is to cut short a dinner.
And I’ve always preferred a short first date – leave her wanting more.

Andrew says:

This is an awesome post! I have experienced some it myself and now I see it as a perfect collection. I totally agree with not taking her for an expensive dinner at beginning. she takes that you are want to impress her with money instead of your personality and subsequently means you have an incompetent and weak personality
thanks for the nice post eric

[...] 10 Rules for the Perfect First Date From: approachanxiety.com  You just met an amazing girl.Wow.This girl is different from all the others. » more 1 [...]

Matari says:

Take Your Dates to the Same Place Every Time. I take all my dates to the same place. It’s a cool bar, a little bit of a dive feel, but there’s artwork hanging up. There are couches in the back. And it’s usually not too loud. I’ve been going to this place for years. I’ve had a lot of success there, so I feel really comfortable there, like I’m in my living room.
———-
Tacky…no wonder you have to have so many dates. Shame you haven’t learned anything about women.

Michael says:

These are all great, great pieces of advice. You could write an entire book on the first point alone. The “to pay or not to pay” issue is indeed a complex one, and can be a point during the date that could make or break a relationship. You can usually tell before even going out on a date what type of a girl she will be; that is, whether she expects you to pay (avoid this type).

With a lot of girls, even trying to pay for them makes them uncomfortable. It’s definitely important to recognize that and learn what she is comfortable with in terms of picking up a tab, buying that 2nd movie ticket, etc.

Wim says:

People please, what’s all this with the hater comments?? Criticize if you want but be constructive, stop feeling so attacked.
Eric’s advice is most the time honest, practical and probably field-tested (I hope :) ).

Wim

Kylie says:

As a chick I totally agree with this. PLEASE, single men everywhere, read this! If I date a guy, I’m usually trying to keep it low key. I usually will not agree to dinner for a first date, but I’ll be up for “a drink” somewhere cool and casual. I feel SO MUCH MORE comfortable if I pay for half the drinks. If the dude gets his pride all hurt over that it just shows me that he’s immature and insecure. And no, I don’t want the moon on a first date. I just want to see who you are. I want to see if you’re intelligent and insightful and if can talk with you. THANKS FOR WRITING THIS! I was thinking, “Here we go, another article filled with macho shit about how to pick up women” but I was wrong. This is right on!!

Andrew says:

I was also thinking this would be some douche ranting online about stupid “tips” on a good date, but this is very realistic and reasonable advice. I do a lot of these things as it is but there are a few, like never meeting up with friends, that I do… but I also don’t consider it a “date” just getting to know her before I decide if I actually want to take her out for real.

Great advice fella! Thanks for typing it up because I know plennnnty of my guy friends who need to read this

[...] You just met an amazing girl. She’s different from all the others. You ’ve been on dates, but they didn’t mean anything compared to this girl. All of a sudden you start to scramble. Where to go? What to do? You ask your friends. You search the internet. What do you do on the perfect date???? Here are ten rules to make this simple and easy.read more | digg story [...]

Sabina says:

“This shows how much you value yourself that you can do something low-key on the first date. Sure, you could play pool or miniature golf or do karaoke. That’s okay.” I agree, it would actually be more cool that way!

AhmIWILL says:

you hit it right on the head.. Coffee first, or a drink.. I like a blanket under a tree in the park with some fruit.. My buddy Gina and I have a pact. Neither of us will spend more than 40 dollars combined on dates before we knock boots with them.. This is NYC and were both getting play for under 40 bucks, over 2 or 3 dates.. Interested, tuned in and connected sure, depserate, and eager to please no flippin way…

centermost says:

Pathetic. You have to work this hard to remove every single detail that could possible force you to – gulp – improvise or reveal some actual part of your personality; I imagine you’d go to pieces if your lady friend suggested anything out of your pitiful little comfort zone.

Puss. I have no respect for men – or women – who live in fear.

SerialDater says:

I just love it when women say “if he asks me out, he should pay.” That’s such a cop out. Don’t get me wrong, I have no problem buying some drinks on our first date, but let’s face it, the system works such that the guy has to ask the girl out. If a girl wants to go out with a guy, she’ll flirt with him and show interest until he asks. If he doesn’t pick up the cues, there’s not going to be a date. Yes, some girls have the balls to ask him out, but they’re rare.

For good looking guys, the type that women are attracted to just by looking at them, don’t use the line “…if you think you can handle it.” It just comes across as cocky.

Great stuff Eric. It’s pretty much exactly how I do all my first dates.

Wander says:

Hats off for the great post :) I always took it for granted that the first date was to get to know one another over coffee or something. Usually this involved “chaired” places, but that will change in the near future :)

Wish you the best of luck with the ladies

/Wander

samantha says:

This has to be the stupidest thing I have ever read – no wonder men are so lazy these days. Really bad advice unless all you are looking for is a one night stand.

Seduction says:

Good list, I love getting comments like Samantha’s on my page as well… bashing men and telling everyone it’s bad advice.

She doesn’t even realize that she wouldn’t be attracted to someone if they swooned all over her… in her mind, that might be what she THINKS she wants.

But in reality, that’s not how things are.

Best

Dee says:

I agree with some of these tips, but I disagree both about the “be a challenge” tip and the “don’t pay”

When I go out on a date, I don’t expect the guy to pay. Especially if it’s something expensive (although I’m the kind of girl that rather would go for coffee instead of fancy dining on the first date). However, if the guy pays without asking me, it’s a gesture that tells me he’s a gentlemen. It’s not about the money he spends, or the inclination that he “has a lot of money” or “honey, you’ll never have to work, I can take care of you”. I don’t know how it is in other countries (I live in Norway), but women around here are not used to getting some “extra attention” from men, like them opening doors for you, remembering how I like my coffe or just remembering something about you. It’s about paying attention without going over the top. It’s the little things we women looks at.

And be very aware of “trying to be a challenge”. Most men like the little challenge – the hunt – of getting a girl. We women usually get insecure when this happens. “He doesn’t like me, I’ll just give up” is a common thought among women, I think. It’s about finding that fine line between not showing any interest and showing that you’re head over heels for her. Be relaxed, be yourself and give her a little extra attention (without overdoing it!).

Women today are strong, confident and can manage themselves. That’s why it feels so good to be courted upon sometimes.

London says:

ummm. guys. this really isn’t the best advice. some of it is alright but alot of it is just so “play it safe”. girls LIKE stimulation and new and different dates. we LIKE to be pampered for a night. we LIKE to meet your friends. we LIKE going to dinner. i dunno…just don’t worry so much and be real. we will fall hard if you guys out there just take a chance and be genuine.

Mehreen says:

I think some of your ideas are super but I disagree with a few. It is definitely good advice not to spend a lot of money on a first date, so you don’t look like you’re trying to buy your lady friend. But I agree with all of the other ladies who have said challenging her to pay is a bad tactic. Not all girls are gold diggers, but you still never want to look cheap on the first date. If you are a nice, interesting person like you say, there will be plenty of time for things not to be one sided, like when she makes you dinner or takes you someplace interesting after she is comfortable around you.
Also, asking a girl out on Sunday isn’t a great idea either. It would seem like you aren’t willing to waste your weekend time getting to know her, so you give up your Sunday, which is a bullshit day anyway. Thursday though isn’t that bad of an idea.

Don’t scoff. I’m a girl in a long term relationship. I know what formula works and what doesn’t.

I do not agree with this advice for the most part. I think *most* guys actually do the “just drinks/coffee” first date and while I may still genuinely enjoy myself it does tend to make me think that he will always put minimum effort into his dates/relationships. However, I do completely agree that going to over-the-top like taking a helicopter ride for a first date is way too much – it would leave me wondering how this man could ever up the ante if he were to ever fall in love with me and in reality, could end up making me feel less special (as if he’s just using money instead of charm).

I really think that dinner at a unique local spot that is moderately priced (I think $15-20 a person, without drinks, is a good expectation) with great ambiance (soft lighting, chill music, comfortable seating) is the perfect first date spot.

However, a walk in the park and ice cream/hot cocoa (depending on weather) is cheap, different than usual and romantic…..it would be a very nice first date or any number date for that matter.

Lisa says:

This couldn’t be more wrong. The only one I agree with is not to meet up with friends.

As a forty-something woman, I want to know a man is seriously interested in me. He should absolutely take me to dinner. Anything else I interpret as cheap.

I’ve been out with guys who obviously take his dates to the same place, and it’s such a huge turnoff when the bartender knows his drink and looks at me like “here goes another one.” Awful.

He should be considerate and take me someplace close to MY house so I don’t have to drive too far. No one is going to anyone else’s house on the first date in my book. If it gets that passionate, I don’t think you’ll mind a drive to get to where you want to be.

Check out my own thoughts on dating in my blog, Unwritten. You’ll find some of my tips (opposite of these) here: http://myunwrittenpages.blogspot.com/2007/09/how-to-get-date-with-woman-youve-never.html

roach says:

THIS IS HORRIBLE ADVICE!
if you took me on a date, i’d never go out with you again.

Wow! says:

Any guy who announced that I had to pay for anything would see my backside instantly!That would be the end of the attraction .

If all I ever had to do was tell a girl she had to pay in order to see her backside…boy would I be one rich, happy man.

Christian says:

There is nothing wrong with this advice what-so-ever, although if the girl was particularly “amazing” and truly “different from all the others” as the beginning of the article suggests, then I wouldn’t mind going a little extra further to make an impression. HOWEVER- very, very few women had ever impressed me enough that I placed them in that category.

Now, to all of the men that are reading the hateful comments by all of the “girls” that made the spiteful posts; do not take any of it to heart. These women do not care ONE BIT about who you are as an individual or what values make you who you are. The comments like “if I have to pay for anything you’ll see my backside” or “no wonder men are lazy” are red lights that confirm that they are only interested in what other individuals are able to give to them, not not about what they are willing to give up to find a little happiness. These women believe that their vaginas are magical, and laced with gold and silk, and the fact that they are even standing in the same room with you somehow constitutes that you need to be buying them 7$ cocktails just to find out a little about who they are.

You could be everything they ever hoped for in a man…intelligent, considerate, reliable, venturesome, headstrong, RICH…but because you didn’t drop that extra dime ON THE VERY FIRST DATE then they’re going to show you what’s what and and walk right out the door. Let ‘em. As a man, the only thing you owe them on that first date is to make sure they get back to their apartment/house unharmed.

To Dee from Norway: No ma’am, this type of behavior seems to be mostly prevalent here in the states. Somewhere along the way most of our women left and were replaced with self-proclaimed princesses. Luckily enough I had a chance to meet a wonderful lady who not only broke the mold, she killed the mold-maker just to make sure.

Gentlemen: Good luck on the dating, remember that if YOU are not happy then you’re doing yourself a great disservice.

Women: No hard feelings, just looking out for my homies.

Erica says:

This is the DUMBEST advice I have ever read. It practically goes against nearly all the rules. It doesn’t have to be extravagent, but there are certain expectations that men AND women must live by.

Stop being a cheap lazy bastard and get over yourself

Manik says:

Tut tut tut. All about the women.

Put them on a pedestal and watch them act like princesses.

Ladies your do-do smells to.

milhorn says:

I think this is a great idea. I have always been one to take a girl out to an expensive resteraunt and spend a lot of money on them. It ends up being a 3-4 year relationship and they drain me financially and I am the one left with all the bills. This sounds like a way to weed out the gold diggers. I have a date coming up with someone I met online and she is coming from 9 am till 3pm to visit for the first time. I think i may splurg and take her somewhere cheap to eat, somewhere we can both eat for under 20. Then maybe a nice walk in the park with is just 2 min. from my house and then back to the house because I am hoping to get lucky. I am a lesbian and paying the bill is awkward when it is two women. Do you think that is overdoing it on a first date? I am hoping to get some after the park, because she has been teasing me for months sending me nude pics and emails.

Joe says:

I wish I knew about the “no dinner” rule about 20 years ago. With all the money I spent on dinner dates, only to never see the girl again, I would have been a millionaire by now.

good stuff

jenni says:

This is a bunch of fucking sexist bullshit….”spend as little as possible on her.” Not all women are gold diggers…and it certainly doesn’t mean you have to be a cheap pig looking for a quick hot bang. And I’m all for going dutch and returning the favor of being taken out to a fancy restaurant. You just assume that all women expect to be paid for like we’re too incompetent to have money ourselves and think men have some responsibility that women shouldn’t.

The grotesque chauvinistic illustrations of women as half naked twits says it all. I’m getting sick of this rape culture. Why can’t we have sexual equality???

ronsonB2 says:

because sexual equality might never actually be achieved. so get over it. Men chase women and that’s how nature wanted it to be. also men and women are DIFFERENT. and it was nature the one who gave both different roles.

B Dub says:

Rape Culture? Where the hell do you live, with all the goof ball rappers?

Damn, the way things have been going, we can’t even figure out What kind of culture we are half the time. What need to be done is that we need to throw out all the BS that society, and the pissed off miserable people who run it, have heaped upon us, and get back to a set up where it’s about Masculine and Feminine energy and how they naturally complement each other.

That’s the way it was in the beginning, through most of time (until a bunch of idiots with Cranial-Rectal Inversions took over), and how it should be.

Eric Disco says:

…it certainly doesn’t mean you have to be a cheap pig looking for a quick hot bang. And I’m all for going dutch and returning the favor of being taken out to a fancy restaurant. You just assume that all women expect to be paid for like we’re too incompetent to have money ourselves and think men have some responsibility that women shouldn’t.

What are you trying to say? You want guys to pay for women, or you don’t? You can’t have it both ways.

I love to engage in healthy debate, especially with people who consider themselves feminist, but your rant doesn’t make any sense. You’re spouting hateful nonsense. You attack anything that has to do with men and sexuality. It’s puritanism without Jesus.

If you really want to change things for the better, try toning down the rhetoric and instead engage in productive conversations with men as so many of my other feminist friends have.  Try treating people with respect.

From my past experience, the people who have had the most impact on me were by example. I had a friend in college who was vegan, but he was much less judgmental or preachy than any other vegan I came across. I went vegetarian for 8 years after living with him–without him preaching a word to me.

A lesbian with whom I did activist work was devout in her Christian faith. She talked about people and situations with such love and compassion that I even considered going to church services with her, something I thought I would never do on a million years.

Even on this blog, I can talk about a million techniques with women, but guys relate the most when I talk about real experiences and how I myself struggle.

Teach by example.  If you want men to treat women with more respect, try treating other people with respect.

I consider myself feminist although I disagree with a good portion of modern feminist theory. Some of the women I’m seeing are feminists and we get into spirited debates.  They’ve even changed my mind about a some things.  I love it when someone can change my mind.  It’s a beautiful thing.

Eric

Sally says:

Most of these tips are pretty relevant and should be taken in to consideration, but when put altogether, a lot of it would probably send a girl running!

First dates are going to be awkward. They always are – for both sides! The whole point is that you are trying to get to know each other. If you take this advice, despite it trying to prove it’s not all about the girl. It ultimate will be if you take this advice.

Maybe let the girl have a say in where you go and what you do as well? She probably has some good ideas and is probably just as willing to impress you – not all girls are waiting to be pampered and spoiled. Just make sure in the end you have a back up plan, otherwise you come off as indecisive and a little weak.

If it’s a girl you’ve just met and aren’t sure about, then a bar/cafe for a singular drink is fine – she should understand that you aren’t pulling out the stops for someone you’ve just met. Don’t try and fool yourself in to thinking she’s going home with you though – that tip is just wishful thinking.

If it’s a girl you’re pretty sure could turn in to a relationship try to show a little more effort. Try something a little different, but nothing too crazy. Day time dates where there is an activity but oppurtunity for talking is good – the zoo, beach, frisbee and picnic in the park. Then follow up with bar/cafe (switch it up from time to time – you’ll get found out eventually if you keep taking your dates to the same place)

As for the who pays part, it’s a good idea to not spend too much. Do not ask the girl to pay, but be subtle in suggesting she do her share. Even the most down to earth girls won’t be concerned if they have to do their bit but will be offended when asked out right for cash (girls are weird. fact of life). As for dates that involve a meal – boy pays if boy asked, dutch if she asked (double standards i know). And if she kicks a fuss, do you really want to be with a girl like that anyway?

Lastly, the play it cool card only works on certain girls. A lot of the time it just breeds mind games and insecurities. So unless that’s the type of relationship you’re after (O_O), it’s probably best to show a little effort to make her feel special and that you’re genuinely happy that she’s out with you. She’s probably feeling the same as you!

Everything in moderation!

russruggles says:

This is great, very well thought-out advice. I agree, meet for “a drink” on the first date. It’s also very helpful to know your venue, and avoid sitting across from them. Side-by-side, or on a corner table or booth is best, otherwise it’s like a face-off. Going to the same place for every date is good, but since I live in a dense city, I just try to find a place that is in her neighborhood to make it convenient.

I also agree not to spend too much money. I wouldn’t ever *suggest* that a woman pay, but them offering to trade off on buying drinks (and meaning it) is a sign of a good woman to me.

This is some great advice from a very smart Eric. The don’t take to meet your friends or her friends is an important one. Usually the girl’s friends will try to be negative even if your are a total steal. Some women just don’t like to see their friends happier than they are. Thanks for the read, I will certainly forward this on to my guy friends.

wowie says:

This is actually really….really, bad advice.

If your idea of a first date is with a stranger you want to screw later, then this is pretty good.

Why should you assume that you know nothing about someone on the first date? And so, because you are trying to figure out if they are worth sleeping with, you should make the least effort possible?

Going for drinks is a little sleazy–take a hooker for drinks, make sure it’s some place near to your apartment, so you can have a quick transaction—that’s pretty much what I read here.

The Spend as Little Money On Her As Possible rule is the one i keep repeating to every friend of mine. Spending money can give her a wrong idea. And if she is a money hunter you just lose time with her.

claudia says:

I usually let a guy pay first date and wont offer to go dutch unless i dont really like him that much and know i probably dont want to see him again if he immediately accepts and doesnt at least try to be chivalrous will likely seal the deal as it indicates he is either probably also not really got the intention of a second date where u could square things out a bit or if he is then he is simply tight or just not very experienced in how to make a woman feel like a woman lettin him pay gives me chance to say am takin u out next time to let him know i like him if i really like the guy it also puts me in a situation where i can pick a second date where i feel comfortable Also its nice to be treated like a woman sometimes with a bit of good old chivalry when lets face it most women have to be men at work all day we want to be reminded also if a guy cant afford to take u out the first time or at least even offer is it cos hes dating so many girls he simply cant ie hes a player its a massive turn off! And to the guy advising that woman really need to be reminded they are not that special and they need to have their esteem lowered etc bla bla bla yes if u want an insecure girl that has esteem issues which would respond positively to that behaviour i agree is a good strategy but if thats what u r lookin for in a date u probably should ask yourself y and what it says about your own esteem levels

Claire says:

LOL were you born in the 40′s?

Ken Meyer says:

if a woman makes spending money on her an issue, then I feel free to ask her what business she is in. She’s actually behaving no different than a prostitute who wants to be paid upfront. But, big difference, a prostitute keeps things at least straight an honest.

JJ says:

It is absolutely NOT necessary to ever spend more than $10 on a woman before having sex with her.

I have done this a number of times. In fact, if you figure out your whole game in such a way that you don’t spend much, you will succeed much, much more.

Don’t listen to all the mooching gold-diggers here – they just want a free ride, but are really attracted to the man who knows better than to spend money.

JJ says:

I’m getting sick of this rape culture.

Most rape accusations are false.

Why can’t we have sexual equality???

Because you are not pretty enough for guys to be interested in you.

I always notice that it is the ugly women who whine about some imagined ‘rape’ culture, but the pretty women (the ones who actually are at risk of rape) never whine about some imagined ‘rape’ culture at all.

That tells us that ‘rape’ is just a bogus ploy that ugly women use to get attention.

JJ says:

Lisa,

You don’t know anything about how women think. And no, being a woman does not mean you know how women think (quite the opposite, in fact).

As a forty-something woman, I want to know a man is seriously interested in me. He should absolutely take me to dinner.

A 40+ woman (well past her expiry date) is lucky to have any man want to spend time with her at all. Don’t be unrealistic and expect a dinner.

Your ‘tips’ on dating are so ignorant that a man should read them as an example of how to NEVER listen to a woman’s advice, especially a woman who is way to old to be interesting to most men.

Boris says:

It strikes me that only women disagree with the advice given. Does that say more about women or about the advice?

Cameron says:

“I’m getting sick of this rape culture.

Most rape accusations are false.

Why can’t we have sexual equality???

Because you are not pretty enough for guys to be interested in you.

I always notice that it is the ugly women who whine about some imagined ‘rape’ culture, but the pretty women (the ones who actually are at risk of rape) never whine about some imagined ‘rape’ culture at all.

That tells us that ‘rape’ is just a bogus ploy that ugly women use to get attention.”

JJ, this is a truly ridiculous, offensive and stupid comment.

[...] Approach Anxiety » 10 Rules for the Perfect First Date:“10 Rules for the Perfect First DateApril 2nd, 2008 by Eric Disco [...]

Samira says:

Spot on. I always pay for my dinner and dont mind shouting rounds. I cant understand women who think theyre entitled to a chunk of a man’s paycheck.

Low key dates are the best way to get to know people.

Sugarplum says:

Alright people, as with most commenty blogs it all turns to dribble eventually, so back to the actual topic at hand, datiing advice…

Obviously, there is not one set of applicable advice which works for everyone in every situation. I think this is good advice for a certain age range and cultural context. It’s a great starting point which can be built upon.

Each different set of suggestions will undoubtably attract different types. Some people want a princess to pamper, some want a mommy, and everything in between. So your strategy should match your intentions. Also consider long-term vs short-term prospects and behave accordingly.

Now to the point: me.

I’m a 34 y.o. Portland woman, 90% gay, “dating” for the 1st time (after yrs of serial-monogomy begun with sex-on-first-dates.) I have a lot to offer: attractive, smart, funny, and evolved. Most the women I’ve met have been the same, but here I am in the situation originally described. I met someone who is ALL THAT. Really. She’s a professional athlete, super awesome personality, and we do this time-warp thing in conversations where suddenly hrs have passed… yeah.

Point is. 3rd date.

1st date, coffee (dutch). 2nd date, she bought me tasty lunch.

Is it unreasonable to take her to “cirque de la symphonie” the next (third) time we hang out. Tickets start at $50 ea for the back seats… this is probably a bad idea.

Pros: symphony is nice and expresses an appreciation of culture, and she’s taking classes in acrobatics, so it shows I’m paying attention to what she’s into. Also she’s a bit fixated on her career so I feel like a little extra romance will remind her why I’m there.

Cons: take her someplace nice but get crappy seats? No more budget for din, but I could cook for us. No talking during spectator events. Setting the bar too high for future expectations. Showing too soon I’m really into her.

Then again, I’m all for shared experiences cultivating bonding. And if she is my future-wife we can always say…”remember when…”

Alright. Thanks! You rock.

Eric Disco says:

Sugarplum,

I would save that for a fourth or fifth date. And I would definitely save that for after you’re sleeping together. You really want to avoid anything that seems like you’re trying to impress her. She wants a bit of a challenge, to feel like she still has a bit of work to do winning you over.

That being said, I don’t think it would be a tragic mistake. She’s obviously into you. She bought you lunch. If you do go ahead with it, frame it as “i got these tickets, do you want to go with me.” In other words, inviting her along to something you wanted to do and maybe would have done anyway. This way you avoid the inevitable “nice guy” issues (or nice girl in this case).

Eric

TAllagash says:

if a chick is attracted to you, just being around you/meeting for a drink should be enough. chicks who expect a date and dinner and all that are either broke, or aren’t interested enough, so the bait is the free dinner/drink.

hey says:

yeah, Like she’s not into me but she just wonts to go out for a free meal

Amanda says:

I think this advise is AWESOME. As women, we’re always being told to value ourselves and never give too much too soon and I always felt that men should live by those same rules.

FANTASTIC!

FeaturesOne says:

Trying to make the first date extra exciting is synonymous with seeking validation. I learnt that the hard way. Wish I would have read this post 2 years ago.

Amanda says:

This is hands down the worst dating advice I’ve ever heard. If you are a man, please take what this guy has to say with a grain of salt.

“Spend as little money on her as possible.” To me, this says, “Make her think your poor so she won’t expect much.” I’m no gold-digging whore, but if you like me, dote on me a little bit. It’s not something I’m going to come to expect, but it’s our first date. I’m not saying you have to buy me $200 concert tickets or take me to a restaurant that’s $70 a plate, but pay. It’s just the chivalrous thing to do.

“Never take her out to dinner on the first date.” When a guy asks me for drinks for our first date, I don’t exactly assume that he’s trying to get me drunk enough to go home with him, but it’s in the back of my mind. If he asks me to dinner, I know he takes me seriously.

“Take your dates to the same place every time.” It was around this point that I started wondering if this was a serious post or not. If you have a place that’s special to you, I get it. On the other hand, shouldn’t it be about making me more comfortable? Taking me to your favorite place to “bring all of your dates” gives you the home field advantage. Plus, I have this image of you as a regular to this establishment bringing a different girl in there every time. Ew.

“Don’t try to make the date extra exciting.” The kicker. Of the first dates I’ve been on, the ones that stick out in my mind were the most exciting. Anyone can pick a place for dinner, but adventurous men are more appealing. Yes, I want to get to know you better, but I can absolutely do that while kayaking, horseback riding, going to an arcade, or between sets of a local rock band.

Having made these points, a lot of what was said is true. Make sure you have the opportunity to talk and connect. Do not meet up with friends, it will kill whatever connection you have going. And yes, as presumptuous as this sounds, make going to your place an easy and accessible option. (Just in case.)

Eric Disco says:

“Don’t try to make the date extra exciting.” The kicker. Of the first dates I’ve been on, the ones that stick out in my mind were the most exciting. Anyone can pick a place for dinner, but adventurous men are more appealing. Yes, I want to get to know you better, but I can absolutely do that while kayaking, horseback riding, going to an arcade, or between sets of a local rock band.

Absolutely, you want to be adventurous. Going to an arcade is a great first date. I like to go to a bar where there’s a pool table. It’s fun to do on a first date.

However, what would you think if a guy took you kayaking or horseback riding on a first date? Think about it. You just met this guy in a bar, or at the supermarket, or even got introduced through a friend. If you don’t know each other that well, if you haven’t sat down and actually talked for a while–really connected, him doing something like this is creepy.

It’s too much.

It shows that he doesn’t have friends he can do this stuff with. That stuff is fine for maybe a second date, definitely a third date, but to take her with you on a first date to something that involved, shows that you’re treating her special–without her earning it.

Eric

deidra says:

ERIC, THIS IS A LOAD OF SHIT. IF YOU WANT A RELATIONSHIP WITH A LADY THIS IS NOT THE ROUTE TO TAKE. MEN TAKE NOTICE!!! THIS MAN MORE THAN LIKELY GETS NO SECOND DATES, HINTS THE I TAKE ALL MY DATES TO THE SAME PLACE. HE’S APPARENTLY NOT MARRIED. IF HE KEEPS THIS UP HE NEVER WILL BE. AND WITH THIS ADVICE THERE IS NO NEED TO BE CLOSE TO HOME. YOU WILL NOT, I REPEAT NOT, GET LAID. AMANDA AND ALLIE, I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU

deidra says:

HOW OLD ARE YOU ERIC?

Lee says:

@deidra Think about what you and your girlfriends are saying. All a man has to do is spend enough money and he’s convinced you that he is thoughtful and sincere? Heck, if I were a man with a few extra bucks and not a whole lot of ethical standards, I might consider that an easy way to get on your good side. You must have made a lot of mistakes in your romantic life because you have it completely backwards. The biggest jerks are going to the ones who play on those expectations, take you to the nicest dinners, bring you flowers. Why? Because it’s easy. It’s a matter of a few extra bucks and some meaningless gestures. You know what’s hard? Not buying your way in. Making a real connection through conversation and some quiet time together in a very ordinary place. What Eric is talking about is finding a woman he can impress with his personality. You asked whether Eric is married. I’m speaking for myself here but I’m sure that Eric would agree. The last girl with whom I’d want to spend the rest of my life is one who can be so easily fooled.

Traci says:

As a whole- coming from a lady who has dated very wonderful men- this advice is terrible.

Women want chivarly and initiative. Trust me.

What we care about is that you:
a. planned something
b. pursued us and treated us like a lady
c. picked a weekend day (if you take us out on a weekday, you portray that you are spending the weekends with someone else)
d. treated us special (when the manager of your repetitive venue says ‘oh another new girl’, thats not good)

Be a man and go after what you want. Good luck!

Alex says:

It’s so sad that the author of this article hates women. It looks like he thinks all they look for is a guy’s wallet, or its content. Hence so many ideas on how to protect deep pockets of hard-working suckers (make her pay for the second round!). Ha! Mr. Eric, believe me, there are women who meet men not because they can drink for free.

Kemmy says:

Thanks a lot.
@Alex: it’s not about hating women. It’s about demonstrating that you’re not trying to buy their attention. Trust me. Most of the times, if you do some expensive spending for her on the first date, it’ll come off as trying to buy her affection even though it may not be what you’re thinking. I’ve been there before and it didn’t turn out well for me.

susan says:

I thought this was a joke when I first read it (‘how to lose a girl in 10 days, etc). You’re a real catch, Eric

Lee says:

Eric, you know this article is dead on precisely because it has pissed off so many women. Women love to hate the men they have to chase… almost as much as they love to love them :-)

KL says:

Haha, so true what Lee says. It’s also because women (and men, to a lesser degree) have been conditioned and programmed by the culture to associate lovey-dovey stuff with relationships. Whereas we are concerned with generating sexual attraction and turning women on sexually. It’s a totally different ball game. Nature versus culture.

Kara says:

Seriously? This article isn’t about dating someone, it’s about seducing them! If a guy made me pay for my own dinner or suggested we go back to his place “for any old reason” – I’d run away! Seriously – this article is a joke! I warn any guy that reads this article to disregard 90% of the advice. The only kind of girl these tricks will work on is a cheap one!

Eric Disco says:

If a guy made me pay for my own dinner, I’d run away! The only kind of girl these tricks will work on is a cheap one!

It’s your prerogative if you choose to sleep with men for a higher price. I date women when they are interested in my company.

Eric

Steve says:

ugh…feminists. I got a first for my dissertation defending Angela Carter’s brilliant prose from the scorn of feminists saying her writing was an attack on men.

So personally I’m not going to waste my energy in arguing against their absurd cackle.

Girls, if you prefer whimps and pussies then you date them. We don’t criticise you dating them and you don’t criticise us dating quality and attractive women.

Steve

Cameron says:

Notice there’s this whole consensus reality going on whereby every point of view which opposes the one alleged to be “true” is dismissed.

Jonathan says:

If you are a real man, why would you ever care about feminists ?!!

If you find an issue with them than look no further then inside your mind It’s you!

my .2 cents

Lee says:

Guys, the girls who are complaining about this article are not feminists. The feminists I know would be fine with a simple drink in a dive bar. They don’t want to be bought, pampered, or spoiled. The girls complaining are the high maintenance girls, the girls who want men to give them an ego boost. The tragedy is that the obsequious men they attract quickly become boring to them. Only when they meet a man who is initially a little skeptical about them – a man whose love they have to win – are they truly happy. The psychology of the erotic works like this: The stronger the taboo, the greater a woman’s pleasure when she finally surrenders. –Lee

Jonathan says:

@Lee

I know.
It is amazing how many of these complainers , technically speaking , operate with the mindset of a prostitute without even being aware of it: you pay me an indefinite(!) amount upfront and then you may or may not get sex and even love in return. Whores are way more honest and fair.

Ironically most women do this in order not to appear cheap and easy …

Cameron says:

I think its ridiculous to compare women who want men to buy them dinner to prostitutes.

Kay Kay says:

I think the tips are about half correct half wrong, from a girl’s point of view.

I actually agree with one of the lady’s comments above; when a guy asks a girl out, he should pay. And when a girl asks a guy out, she should expect to pay. And please don’t complain and say that girls never ask guys out. Once beyond that initial stage, girls are very comfortable in asking guys to go out and do a certain activity. I absolutely expect myself to pay when I am the one who picks up the phone and asks the guy to go “bowling” or “coffee” or “biking” with me; cause I wanted to; though on many occasions, most of these guys won’t let me pay. If that’s the case, I would try to sneak out and buy some ice cream or coffee for us during the date.

I have to admit that when guys don’t want to pay, it hurts my self-esteem a tiny bit; it implies that he doesn’t think I am worth his money or time? Sometimes it is a culture thing, here in North America, going Dutch seems to be more common. In Asia or Europe, 99% of the guys would not let me pay during dates. I try not to judge guys base on whether or not he pays for the dates, cause maybe he is really going through some difficult time financially. However, it just looks bad in public when a girl has to pay; maybe you boys don’t notice it. Often times, girls get weird looks from the waitress or waiter or just fellow diners when we pay, it’s like we are not worthy, we have to pay for guys to go on dates. That’s the primary reason why girls don’t like paying. That’s why I often buy gifts for my ex bf (things he needed) instead of paying for activities we do; he takes care of those. He and I both felt very comfortable that way. He felt like a man, and I felt like a lady; and we both contributed =)

Boys, general rule of thumb. Don’t embarrass a girl in public. If money is an issue, take her to less expensive places. 99% of my gfs agree, we rather go eat at restaurant A (casual dining, Total $20, guy pays it all) than eat at restaurant B (a bit fancy, Total $40, guy pays $20, girl pays $20). You can see, in both situations, the guy pays the same amount of money. But the girl is definitely a 100% happier going to restaurant A. Going Dutch also makes her feel like you can be just friends or strangers; there is no sense of togetherness. Many of my gfs and I use this strategy; let the guy pay for a couple of times, then we pay; and just take turns. But splitting the bill is ultimately the ugliest things to do in public for a COUPLE, or SOON-TO-BE couple.

You may disagree with what I say, but this is advice from a girl. And asking you to pay the tab on a $20 dinner bill is NOT MATERIALISTIC! Gold diggers want diamonds, jewels, purses, not cheap dinners or affordable activities. So don’t call us materialistic. We are just a bit traditional =)

winter23 says:

Sometimes I think if the guy asks you out he should pay for sure, but I’m always inclined to offer, just in case. It’s best when he declines the offer. As a girl, you have to understand, we might technically make similar salaries, but I spend money on hair, nails, makeup, clothes, and getting it all together, which most guys really don’t have to worry about. If all these things are done to look my best on our date, I expect you to be a real man and gentleman to be aware of these things. So, the extra effort on my part to look good for you=you prepared to pay. Now, I do think girls should at least offer but it’s a big turnoff if you don’t decline it. This is an ideal situation. But, nowadays many girls want to feel that they don’t need a man to take care of them or worse feel obligated but I think the guy should always pay more and put more into planning, ect. It’s only fair while we spend out energy on looking out best and relaxing for a moment, it’s best when you feel you don’t have to be taking care of things. I know many men that would be offended if I offered to buy them a drink, even if he had just bought me one. It’s different types of men and a different set up for how the relationship is going to be. About going close to your house, no way should be harder for you more relaxing for you, go to her.

Clare says:

“Spend as little money on her as possible” – I don’t think this is good advice. The comment about I’ll get the first round, you get the next 5, would not go down well with me on a date… at all. I think this guy is missing the point that on a date, especially a first date, girls want to feel SPECIAL. Same sort of applies to your thing about taking every girl to the same place every time. If this girl really is “different from all the others”, you should let her know it. Sure, relationships and getting to know one another should be relaxed and low-pressure, but there is room in every relationship for making a girl feel special, we love it. And if you’re not going to do it in the beginning, when will you? (well, that’s me anyway.)

Lee says:

@Clare When a guy blows more money on you or takes you to a new place, do you really “feel special”? I feel a little sad for you if you do because you’re focusing on something that men can easily do – blow more cash – and ignoring something men cannot easily do – make the date about figuring out whether the two of you are really compatible. Girls, get this through your heads: If a guy feels you’re special before he’s had a chance to get to know you, you are being taken for a ride. The only thing an honest man can feel before he gets to know you is that he’s sexually attracted to you. The rest is what that first date is all about. If a man is willing to blow big bucks on you and take you to a fancy restaurant, the only thing you can say about him is that he’s trying to impress you. He doesn’t yet think you’re any more special than any other hot piece of ass he’s met on the street. –Lee

Crystal says:

From a woman’s standpoint, this advice is PATHETIC. You may have been lucky enough in the past to get laid from your own advice, but I highly doubt you ever seen any of those women again. Maybe this is good advice for a one-night stand, but NOT if you want a serious relationship. And WTF is it with you to put down every woman on this pathetic site, calling her a FEMINIST or UGLY, just because she has a voice. A woman is NOT a man’s play thing. It’s men like you that make a straight girl wanna re-think her sexuality!!!

Natasha says:

OMG!!!!! This is the worst article ever, no wonder some men are jerks and they don’t want put effort in dating or getting to know someone!!!! This article is good advice for one night stand!!!!!! Grow up people!!!!!!!

JonathanA says:

Women screaming ‘Foul’ tells me exactly one thing: it works!

Lee says:

Natasha gets to know men quicker if they lay out some cash. Um. Yes, that’s the correct interpretation.

–Lee

Derrick says:

Crystal thinks men trying to buy her off is romantic, and gives her a voice.

MrAntiquity says:

@Crystal and Natasha–

I see nothing in here that’s offensive, or objectionable. It says: Go somewhere fun and low-key, and essentially don’t try to buy the girl. It also says that the interaction between the guy and the girl is what’s important–not the other stuff (i.e. $$$$).

Not sure what this has to do with one-night stands, or serious relationships? Advice here can work for either.

Unless by ‘effort in getting to know someone’ you mean forking over the dough? What if I just gave you the dough, dispensed with the frills, and we went back to my place? Oh wait a minute…..there’s a word for that….

Susi says:

I’m 25 years old, single and in all honesty, way too busy to be stressing over a fancy date, wondering all day what it is I’ll be wearing…
I rather put on some hiking clothes, go for a hike and have a cup of coffee afterwards. No pressure relaxing fun.
I like to get to know someone as a friend first anyway, interviewing someone over dinner doesn’t exactly work for me.

I think we give too much importance to the “first date”, I don’t really care for that, I feel special enough with the guy wanting to spend some one on one time with me, even if it is over Starbucks or a walk by the beach. I think we are missing the point here, which is to get to know each other and really try to find out if you are compatible enough to begin a relationship, or who knows, maybe you just click as friends and stay that way.

Here’s an example, I’m going on a “first date” today. We are going to the shooting range and then to get a bite somewhere.

Swoop says:

Susi here is a good example of someone who gets it. This article really does have its merits, and I definitely believe in it MORE after reading the comments of people freaking out about how they don’t think it is useful/correct.

I have had a girl chastise me for not taking her out much during our relationship, and I agree that I may have been a little cheap in hindsight, but even with learning from that mistake, I still can recognize that a date, especially the first date, is about furthering connection, not some “girl applies standard of how she thinks man should act/how much he should pay,” because this shows how little they care anout actual connection/compatibility. If I am on a date, I want it to be low pressure fun/conversation where we can get to know each other better, and it seems reasonable that a girl should want this too.

Any decision to go somewhere after or for me to pay later should feel natural, not like an obligation (exactly how if we hook up at the end of the night, she shouldn’t feel forced because she ordered something super expensive and I had to pay for it)

[...] But I also amp up the flirting and physical contact. (For more details see Ten Rules for the Perfect First Date) [...]

Angel says:

I believe if there is ever two opinions that are different, it proves we are humans and to ever assume that any “advice” is universal is just as dumb as the women who complained that the advice sucks…. Um, it sucks for you but not all women or man kind. Please, don’t talk for a whole gender, to me it makes you look bad, I personally think people that complain are less attractive than those trying to help other with advice. I hope you note that I said “I personally” instead of saying “everyone” I talk for myself and not all man kind.

Jason says:

Some of us (men) aren’t looking to start a relationship. I don’t mean that in a sleazy way. It’s not about a booty call for us. What I’m saying is, maybe we’ve just gotten out of a long relationship and/or marriage. Maybe we are a tad guarded and just want to break some barriers down by loosening up and enjoying some new company.

I’ve met so many women who think that spending more means the guy “cares,” or “wants to get to know her better.” Then they immediately proceed to pressure mode where they wonder, and eventually ask out loud if and when an official title can be applied to the relationship.

Be honest with yourself women (and some men): the first feelings you can feel for someone you’ve just met are sexual ones. The reason you walked up to someone and started talking, or the reason you clicked that profile on a dating site is because you were attracted to their appearance. That’s the first, and most natural thing you feel, so that’s the easiest thing to go with. Just because a guy is typically more willing to go there first doesn’t make him a pig. Men often show their appreciation for a woman through physical contact. A woman often wants her emotional needs met before surrendering her body, but that’s not realistic in the first 2-3 dates.

If sex happens early, that doesn’t make it a dirty relationship. That doesn’t mean the guy was after one thing; nor does it make the woman a whore. It probably just means everything went very smoothly and naturally, and both parties went with it.

So what if it doesn’t progress into a relationship? So what if you don’t end up married. If your worldview stands beside waiting for marriage for sex: good for you. If you are open to it at any time: that is your choice as well. But don’t categorize a guy as cheap or sleazy just because he wants to be chased a bit; or is seeking a little action. And men, don’t think that a woman can be objectified and tricked into mating because of the video guides of a PUA.

There are no “rules” for dating. Do what you feel works. If the person doesn’t respond, big deal. There are tons more out there.

That’s what I don’t get: why tell each other to “be yourself” but then provide a laundry list of do’s and do not’s that may not fit that person’s style at all?

My last comment is for the women. Why are you starting sentences with “if a guy approached me that way…”? Who cares? Are you advertising yourself? Are you looking here for a date? Or were you coming to complain no matter what? Go then, and find the guy who does everything you want. Don’t pretend that your preferences are the way things work for everyone.

Lee says:

Amen, brother. So well said.

Mango says:

Amen TWICE! Well said! it rings so true and so pure

Peach says:

Ok, just to let you men refrain from calling me ugly and a feminist for this opinion. I am someone who has starred in movies and had tv shows. I am an extremely beautiful woman. And I have to say, this advice sucks. But then again, I prefer men that are confident and looking for long term.

This guy is suggesting terrible advice because he doesn’t want to look desperate. He is suggesting going to the same place because he is so nervous and he’s thinking more about himself then the girl. He is suggesting going back to his place because he doesn’t care about relationships. He is not going to get a well sought after woman with this “game” behavior. He might get temporary with someone insecure. But not long term.

And if the woman is hot – trust me – there will be other people out there treating her as if she is special. She will go for someone else.

Also – this equating woman who enjoy being treated special as “gold diggers” is gross. You can do something lovely and romantic that doesn’t cost a lot. It might take a little effort, but guess what effort goes a long way.

I think this is supposed to be appealing to young men – but please don’t follow this advise. It’s horrible.

Lee says:

Romantic has the word romance in it. A romance begins when a man knows enough about you to want you for more than just your body. That doesn’t really happen until a man knows you’re kind, witty, generous, faithful, etc., etc., depending on his priorities. The only thing he knows about you on the first date is that you’re hot. Blowing cash on you because he thinks you’re hot is called prostitution, not romance. So if you filter for men who will blow cash on you on the first date, you are filtering for men who can’t tell a good woman from a prostitute. I don’t know you well enough to determine if you deserve better.

–Lee

Bryony says:

It’s not the actual date that matters, it’s just how well it goes, and how much you and the other person click. A girl as “high-maintenance” as yourself just seems bitchy and full of herself, and you are.

James says:

Look, I’m 18 and have only been on one date, that date went great because of this advise! I took her to my favorite bar that plays amazing music, we played pool, we had a few beers and I learnt alot about her. I have another date with the same girl next week, this time I’m deciding to cook for her, it’s both romantic and it’s comfortable for me. This advice is great!

MrAntiquity says:

Peach–trying to buy a girl off isn’t ‘special’. The more secure a girl is (doesn’t matter whether she’s attractive or not) the less likely it is that she’ll be duped by that sort of thing.

I’ve got nothing against taking a girl to a nice dinner. But not on the first date when I have no idea who the hell she is.

David says:

Peach, we all know that hot women have a legion of men that would do whatever it takes to seduce them. And there will be rich men, famous men, etc… in that group, that will have much more margin to create those materialistic “special moments” that you talk about.

Precisely for that, we have to play other cards. It’s our personality, not out ability to “impress her” as if she was a queen, that has to win her over. The same applies for her. It might work sometimes, it might not work sometimes. You can click or not. There will be chemistry or not. But when it works, you can tell you both like each other, and you’re not just a carpet under her feet.

But I can understand that you don’t like this information, because it de-worship women and subsequently harm your power over men.

Ken says:

Peach, do you actually understand how attraction works ? Do you understand what makes you, personally, attracted to a man ?

I’m not trying to be patronizing, but most women don’t get how attraction works because they are too socially conditioned in believing all the romantic garbage they read, and see in films etc.

If a guy spends a load of money or effort on a first date she is going to subconsciously put him into the ‘normal needy’ guy box, and will lose any attraction she originally had for him.

A Lady says:

I believe what Peach was trying to say was that there are no hard and fast rules for dating. My interpretation of her text was that putting effort into a date (ie, to make it special) goes a long way. Thoughtfulness counts! As you may only get the one chance, why wouldn’t you want to try to show the good points to yourself (like that you can consider someone’s perspective/preference?!

Most of the subsequent comments had nothing to do with her argument, which is annoying.

Eric’s advise has some good points and some flaws (ie, same place, not far from home). There’s nothing wrong with having sex on the first date if both parties are into that. But seriously, you’re not fooling anyone with your pretense for heading home.

Also, Ken: you’re a moron.

A guy says:

Basically everyone, the point is, women do love to be pampered (hint hint too ladies are telling you directly). If you think she’s worth it than PAMPER AWAY!

A guy says:

woops two*

Brian says:

This is the reason why women shouldn’t be allowed on forums for men seducing women. That sounds sexist I know, but all we’re doing is starting pointless arguments. Women love romance and stories to tell their friends. Whilst men most of the time just want to seduce women, and then maybe start something long term. There’s nothing wrong with that. We shouldn’t be ashamed for just wanting sex anyway. This advice is good whether you just want to seduce a woman and/or you want to get to know her.
Besides since when do women know what they want? We need to do what they respond too. It’s far better to listen to a man who is good with women, because he can tell us what they respond too. Rather then a woman, who is telling us what she “thinks” she wants.

Jess says:

“since when do women know what they want?” hahahahahahaaaaaaa. Brian, your comment is littered with sexist commentary: “Women love romance,” “men…just want to seduce women.”
The problem here is that each person, man or woman, is an individual, who has unique expectations, wants, and needs. Some people are looking for long-term, others for short, and others have no idea what they want going into a first date. Some people expect fancy dinners, other want laid-back drinks at a local pub. It all depends on the person, the things they’ve been exposed to, how they’ve been raised, etc. etc..
It is extremely difficult to generalize an entire gender. And that is exactly why “pointless arguments” crop up in these kinds of forums. Just admit that there is no tried-and-true way to achieve a “Perfect First [or second or third] Date.” You need to get to know the person in order to figure out what will work best for them, and for you.

Lee says:

Oh, Jess. You can’t see any difference between the sexes? If you’re an attractive woman, you can walk up to ten men in a bar and say “Hey, I don’t know how to say this but I am strangely attracted to you.” And that’s it. That woman is going to get laid nine times out of ten. Depending on how attractive she is, even most guys who are married or have girlfriends are going to say yes. Now repeat the experiment for an attractive man. He’s going to get 9 no reaponses. Given this difference, why should women want the same thing as men? Denying nature is stupid.

–Lee

aaron says:

“Now repeat the experiment for an attractive man. He’s going to get 9 no reaponses.” Because religion and culture has taught women to suppress/control their sexuality and there’s much more of a taboo for women to parttake in one-night stands even if they’re interested. Chances are the 9/10 women are flattered and even get aroused but they still say no because they don’t want to come across as a ‘slut’. Guys don’t care about being ‘sluts’.

I do agree with Jess about generalising an entire gender. Some men want romance, some women just want casual encounters.

Hurricane Lee says:

I think there is plenty of evidence that the effect we both described is evolutionary. Robert Trivers explained this in his landmark 1972 paper, “Parental investment and sexual selection” (http://www1.appstate.edu/~kms/classes/psy2664/Documents/trivers.pdf). However, whether the difference in behavior comes from evolutionary mechanisms of the type described by Trivers or from religious and cultural influences as you believe, my point is still the same: it is ridiculous for ment to ignore this important difference and instead base their own dating strategies on some form of egalitarian optimism as you advocate. Dudes and chicks are not the same, and pretending they are is going to make for some very bad game.

–Lee

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