Why the Nice Guy Fears Approaching Women
by 
Eric Disco
In the past, I was the nicest guy in the world. That was my M.O.
I was nice with everyone.
All the time.
I always put people ahead of me.
I think I could have gotten a gold medal in the Nice Olympics.
I did it because it made me feel good about myself.
I had my first real relationship with a woman when I was 18 years old. It lasted two years.
This is very sad and disturbing for me to admit, but even though I really wanted to break things off with her, I stayed with her for a year longer JUST BECAUSE I FELT GUILTY.
I thought that this girl NEEDED me. I wanted to be a good person. I wanted to HELP her. I felt like I was being there for her, although I knew that ultimately I needed to break up with her.
After that mess of a relationship ended, I became best friends with a girl who was severely depressed. I felt like I was helping her. Although she was gorgeous, I didn’t really like her as anything more than a friend. She was obsessive and depressive and that was a turn off.
But I was best friends with her. We would talk for hours on the phone almost every day. She would go from guy to guy obsessing over why he didn’t like her. And I would be there for her as a friend.
I would try to help her figure it out. Of course, I enabled her obsession and made it even worse without me knowing it. But I felt like a saint. I felt like I was truly doing something good for somebody, even though I wasn’t happy. The relationship lasted years.
Being a nice guy was integrally tied to my self-esteem. Everywhere I went, I would put others ahead of me. I eventually read a life-changing book called Codependency No More. It taught me how to be responsible for my happiness and not other people’s.
If you have the terminal Nice Guy disease, this book is a great place to start to get over some of that. It helps you to understand boundaries within relationships and how caretaking too much can be detrimental to everyone involved.
But how is this related to pickup and approach anxiety?
Women are turned off by the nice guy. While most healthy women don’t want someone who is going to be mean to them, there’s a difference between being kind and being a disgusting wussy.
In my first relationship, I was a disgusting wussy. You know that guy, the one who says “Is everything okay with you? Are you sure? Are you really really sure?”
He avoids conflict at all costs. He wants everything to be smooth. Not only does this person lack honesty in the relationship, but he lacks all backbone and any thoughts and feelings of his own. He’s a wet blanket, not a person.
I was the nice nice nice guy. And I also had huge approach anxiety. These two are related.
Part of approach anxiety is a strong tendency to avoid conflict. You don’t want to BOTHER the girl. You wouldn’t be able to handle it if you did something to make her not like you.
Or if, God forbid, you creeped her out? It would take you weeks to get over it.
It doesn’t take a brain surgeon to realize that relationships are about two independent people coming together out of strength rather than out a of desire to feel good about helping some other person.
Being super nice can kill attraction in seconds. Attraction is based on a push/pull. A bit of teasing. Show the girl that you are willing to lose her. Make her take responsibility for her half of the interaction. She wants to be challenged!
Instead, the nice guy wears insecurity on his sleeve without knowing it. He sees it as a badge of honor for why he doesn’t succeed with women. He clings to it to cover the pain of failure.
It’s good to be nice to women. But hoping that meekness will attract women is a fallacy. Niceness on this magnitude is read by women as overcompensation for not having balls. It is overcompensation for not being willing to take true risks.
Want to get out of Nice Guy Land? Try taking a few risks.
Try saying “Ewww” every once in a while when the girl says something, just to keep it interesting.
Try teasing her. Lovingly call her a brat or a nerd. “That’s so cute, you’re such a dork!”
When you throw in some spice like this, it shows you aren’t a yes man, but a true human being that can interact with her, call her on her shit sometimes, and give her a spank on the ass when she’s been bad.
She’ll love you for it.
Posted in Acceptance, Attraction | 
148 Comments »
Kudos, Gigi. Good post.
I agree (mostly) with Gigi, apart from the bit about society being overfeminised. The problem is that the sexes arn’t balanced in the right way either way – you get forced into extremes, or extremes forced on you. Don’t give up the ghost, girls and boys, after only about 200 years of feminism! Long way to go yet.
Basically, be who ever the hell you want to be, and don’t give in just because you might end up single at the end of it. Just be honest with people, be open to change and criticism, sometimes just go crazy, and you will at least have a lot of friends wirth having, and who knows there may be someone for you. If you like to play games, play games. If you don’t, don’t. But don’t see playing games when you never wanted to as having learned – it’s just a compromise.
Sorry, after posting I noticed Antony’s comment.
This is utter bullshit: Why the hell can’t you just talk to someone, or ask them for a date or whatever? You might end up only friends at the end of it, but what you’re describing seems utterly distinct from this. It’s a load of sexist rubbish to have this kind of attitude to men or women. Stop thinking your owed something by somebody, and just be yourself. Of course it is an easy thing to fall into – I’m sure lots of people have felt like this – but come on snap out of it. Go and do some hedge planting or something useful, get other things in your life, meet a load of people, find someone you seriously like, ask them out, see how it goes, if they don’t want a relationship then stay friends. Just don’t get bitter. Easy to state, now the hard part: GO AND DO IT.
[...] Source:Â http://approachanxiety.com/2007/03/why-the-nice-guy-fears-approaching-women/ [...]
[...] Originally Posted by DerekB Like I said earlier, I'm the nice guy that most everybody likes. Its just that none of them "like-like" me. Lots of things have been written about the "nice guy" phenomenon. Here is one I liked: Why the Nice Guy Fears Approaching Women | Approach Anxiety [...]
[...] Originally Posted by DerekB I'm the nice guy that most everybody likes. Its just that none of them [women] "like-like" me. Lots of things have been written about the "nice guy" phenomenon. Here is a page I liked: Why the Nice Guy Fears Approaching Women | Approach Anxiety [...]
Being too nice was how I started. I remember using the nice guy approach and asking for a phone number right off the bat, like she owed it to me or something :P There is nothing sexy about that. I think it’s always best to carry sexiness in ones approach. The teasing stuff is pure confidence which IMO is sexy
This is totally me TOTALLY lol, 1 girl from 3rd world in my 40 years alive lol any time i ever go up to a woman i turn them off imediately no matter how much they wanted me before, i just learnt to forget about women the best i can and use porn when i cant, its just pointless trying to get women when your this underconfident might as well just try your best to forget and when im old i will hopefully loose my desire for women lol. thanks for putting what i am into words its nice to know im not the only one and its nice to know what is turning the women off so quickly
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The nice guys….he he he
This is often a cover up for approach anxiety for sure…
The amount of time I have heard friends saying that they do not want to bother girls by approaching them can not even be counted….And most of the time those guys are the shy and insecure ones…
The friends I have that are funny, outgoing and self confident rarely see it as bothering the girl when they chat up a girl…
Same experience but two completely different views on it….and each view are anchored in their personal experiences and fears…
David, pua coaches were made for people like you. I’d suggest a few sessions just to find out where you are going wrong. Often these things are just about the subconscious signals that you send out, and a combination of coaching and cognitive-behavioural work can sort these problems out. I’d suggest looking for a pua coach with a background in psychology.
Sorry, but I don’t think a “nice guy” is someone who is “unconditionally nice”, to everyone. There is a difference between nice and doormat. An assertive man is attractive because he treats you right, but he is not afraid of confrontations. An aggressive man has always been a turnoff (for me at least, but then again, I must admit that many girls go out with men that treat them like crap).
I just don’t understand why some guys consider that being assertive mean “just to discuss with her from time to time”. I like a man who corrects me if I’m wrong when I’m wrong. I wouldn’t like a guy who would try to belittle me just to be badass. But then again, if someone suffers from “niceguyism”, maybe they need that practice, BUT…
But then again, if you are a doormat, you not only have a problem with girls. You will have a problem with many other people. You shouldn’t let girls abuse you, but you shouldn’t let others abuse you. If you are ALWAYS nice, if you always avoid confrontation, then sometimes you won’t stand your ground when you are needed.
I just mean that I love good people. But my definition of “good” is people who don’t hurt others and don’t let others hurt them. Both parts are equally important. And they are needed for all aspects of life. Treating your partner/spouse as a human being, praising his virtues and calling them out on their defects is not “badddish”. It’s the goddamned right thing to do. My husband will scold me if I leave the lights on. I will scold him if he works for hours under sunlight without using the sunscreen I bought for him. But there is a way of doing that without bitching. You can get serious without bitching.
I don’t know, maybe a working couple just requires two reasonable people who like to be treated well, to treat the other well, and to be told about their defects when they need to (because you partner, yes, is also there to scold you when you are lazy or doing things wrong).
I just think the concept of “nice guy” is perverted in itself, or maybe it doesn’t equal good. A guy (or girl) who’s 100% nice, all of the time, even when abused, is not a good person. And they don’t look attractive.
Women don’t want nice guys? Good! I just read the paper EVERYDAY
about the Mr. Wonderfuls who beat the crap out of these women,
who passed up the “boring” nice guys. Women really get what they deserve. Isn’t that great?
@dave I am sure you are right. Either men are wife beaters or they are obsequious, subservient, and spineless. Is that what you meant?
Dave uses ignorance! It’s not very effective
Lee uses sarcasm! It’s super effective!
I kid, but in all seriousness in your scenario (technically) men like you have failed women and are now left to a future filled with wife beaters. Unless of course you admit to being a woman abuser….
I am (was) the guy that the mothers all LOVED,but the daughters had no use for me ( no not a woman beater,I never got close enough),
since I never got very far and was tossed out of the “game”. I never had
anyone one to fail. There must be an “in between” in there somewhere, and I applaud both Lee and Scott for trying to find it. I just ran out of effort for what still seems so impossible.
Since I gave up the pretense, I am much happier and just live my life,and I have heard all of the labels. Good luck,though!
Dave, are you trying to get with her mom? Further why did her mom like you? Perhaps its because she doesn’t see you as a threat…hence not likely to get her dear daughter to give it up ya know? What do I know, hell maybe your “don’t give a shit attitude” will work better for you. Fortune favors the bold man get out there and live.
@dave No one who regularly posts on this site wants you to quit. There are a few coaches who occasionally post here for whom coaching is a primary source of income. The rest of us post here because we went through a transformation that we want other men to experience as well. Nothing makes us happier than a success story. With that in mind, let me ask you where you failed? Were you able to approach women and start conversations? Or was that something you couldn’t do? –Lee
i was too a nice guy. Being nice guy is not a bad thing but being shy is a huge setback for approaching girl. So, I took some steps to get rid of my shyness & be popular to girl & I succeed. Watch the videos in youtube, you will too be lucky like me.
Nice post Eric. I know I’m not the nicest person, but when it comes to a girl I’m infatuated with I try to show her a completely different me. I will def keep this in mind and learn to risk it more.
Thank You.
great post,keep up the good work :D
Sad how some people commenting like to muster up knee-jerk responses and gang up on others for simply having an opinion.
Anyhow, i personally appreciate the author’s insight into the matter.
I’m not sure that fear (as in being scared) is the issue here. As I see it, women typically (for whatever reason) portray themselves to be unapproachable. If that’s the general premise, then I believe that an attempted approach would probably be met with rejection & psychological smackdown. I think that if one sees that kind of result coming, one might be inclined to just leave it alone and save himself some more aggravation.
I think that this dynamic is more a product of some guys who are too demoralized want to run the gauntlet one more time (yes, that’s me; I admit it).
In my humble opinion, I see this as cutting one’s losses after too many failures, which is decidedly different from being scared, or feeling dread, foreboding, or angst.
Thanks for the post, Lee! I was allegedly a good conversationalist on
a variety of topics. Never really had to “approach”, just lived my life, and
am really blessed to live the life I have.
Figure that I could survive the first date without insulting her or making
her ill and then be sentenced to the friend zone. The “book” says that
I did it correctly, but there was no attraction for her. Nobody’s fault, just
life. Probably needed more of an “edge”, as the book would say. I was so bad at it, it is just a relief not to have to think about it anymore.
@dave
How old are you, dave? And what is it that you’ve given up on? Is it finding a wife? Or finding an attractive woman? Or dating?
–Lee
Good post man… I was exactly the same way in high school and I still am now… Dating a girl now that I asked if something was wrong because she didn’t talk to me in 2 days and suddenly thats a huge turnoff… I guess I need to start acting like a fkin db
because of the women being such of the LOW LIFE that they really are, make it so hard for us men that are looking to meet a good woman today. they are so very hard to talk too, and have a very BAD ATTITUDE PROBLEM TOO. that is why many of us men don’t approach women, in fear of rejection as well.
@so very true
Why would you fear rejection by women who, according to you are low lives and have attitude problems? Wouldn’t those be the women whose judgement you’d least fear? It should be the easiest thing in the world to approach women when you don’t actually want them and there is nothing at stake, no?
there are just so many women that do not know how to act with men. to them, it is like a game. i am one of many men out there that does not play games. i am very serious, because i hate going out as it is. i see so many other men getting rejected by women as well. it is very true, many women today are such A LOW LIFE. especially when they seem to enjoy SLEEPING AROUND with so many different men, and god forbid if they can just stay with ONLY ONE MAN. it seems that so many of these type of women are just FILTHY WHORES. i hate repeating myself, but like i have just said, if only these women could just STAY WITH ONLY ONE MAN, that would make more sense. don’t you agree? years ago, women were certainly much more EDUCATED. so without a doubt, it was a lot easier meeting women back then. since the times have changed, so have the women. back then, i do have to say that women were much more COMMITTED to men. that explains why, our parents and grandparents were married SO LONG.
@franko_says
Your rant makes no sense to me. On the one hand, you say women are whores, which implies they say yes too much. On the other hand, you also say that women love to reject men, which implies they say no too much. Can you not see the contradiction? The difference between our time and the time of our grandparents, is that women have romantic and sexual choice. Sex is good, dude. The only reason women should give up sex with multiple partners is if they find one that is much more attractive than the rest. Are you sure you’re not just pissed because you don’t know how to be that guy? Do you have trouble getting past the approach and really offering women something more than just your desire to get a wife, some kids, and home cooking?
–Lee
i do have to agree with the other guys that say, women are very hard to meet. i have noticed that many of them are very nasty to start a conversation with , and they certainly have a very bad attitude as well. there are many of us straight guys that are looking to meet a good woman today, especially that we are very serious and not into the games that they are playing. i myself, have experienced bad luck with women. not my fault, that many women are so nasty now. by the way Lee, you seem to be such an expert on women. so what is the problem? like i have mentioned before, i get rejected by women a lot. i am not an ugly guy, i am a very clean person as well. i live down the shore, and most of the women are without a doubt stuck up bitches. they think that their shit don’t stink, and since i am in my late fifties, meeting women has become more difficult for me. i was married at one time, and was a very caring and loving husband that never cheated on her. but the filthy whore did cheat on me. i was very committed to her, and loved her very much. i was a one woman man at the time, knowing what i had at home and did not have to go out looking for it anymore. now that i am alone and single again, it sure sucks for me. when i see so many other men that were very lucky to have met the right woman for them, and have a family, it hurts me a lot. i always wanted to have it as well. the men and women today that have each other, should go to church to pray, and thank god very much for what they have. it is the men like us that are hurting very bad now. this is why i go out every single night not to be home by myself, since i have no one to stay home too. now i just go out and hope for the best.
“i do have to agree with the other guys that say, women are very hard to meet.”
That’s a total misquote of Brian Ferry, Roxy Music. He actually said ”The interesting thing is – you never really meet people your own age who aren’t married.’
Pls note the qualifier!
Consequently, his new wife Amanda Sheppard is just 29.
And he’s right! That also perfectly reflects my personal experience.
@mike_says
I don’t know why girls don’t like you. There could be a million reasons. If you were willing to tell us how you dress, how you open, how you transition to a flirty conversation, how you push women into the hot zone, how you take contact info, how you text, and what you do on your dates, I will give you a thorough analysis. There is nothing wrong with being “clean”, but if you’re choosing to mention that as one of your primary attributes, you are probably not giving the women you meet a fun, unique, and compelling romantic experience.
–Lee
Women are indeed hard to meet. There is no question of that. I do not go to bars or clubs due to the fact I do not drink and I am going deaf. I also am 43. (strike one) Other advice I have seen is join clubs etc.. Well, I am a member of a local art association photo arts group and all but one woman are much older. The one not older is my age but married. (strike two) I do not have many close friends as the ones I had got married and moved away. So I go out with the photo arts group on shoots, alone on shoots, and with cousins to hockey games. Never meet women or even see any single women period. I have never been one for superconfidence nor do I wish to be. I am generally a quiet man and not very gregarious either due to my upbringing as an only child. Also as an only child I learned to entertain myself at an early age. Therefore I do not believe it is my responsibility to entertain a woman. Entertain each other yes but never the other way. (strike three I suppose) . So as you can see it is indeed nigh on impossible to meet women.
@Jt
I have to agree with you. With the lifestyle choices you have made, you will have a very hard time meeting women. If you are unwilling to ask what you can change about your life to meet women, there’s nothing to left to talk about. You are exactly where you’ve decided to be.
–Lee
I fail to understand your comment. I love photography why would I give up the group? I am not where I want to be but that’s life. By the way most the friends I have had were women. Some were interested in more but because I couldn’t believe it was possible the opportunities evaporated and so did the women. I even had four twenty somethings interested in me in the past year. Same result. Now nothing. I guess it is punishment for missing all those opportunities. I also fail to see how this could change.
@Jt
You tell us that you don’t want to be more confident. You tell us that you are not very gregarious by nature and therefore don’t believe it is your responsibility to entertain women. You tell us that in your current lifestyle, you “never meet women or even see any single women period”. Dude, these are all choices you’ve made. If you don’t want these things to change, they won’t. I, on the other hand, am six years older than you. I am also not very gregarious by nature, also an only child. I don’t drink and therefore don’t go to loud party bars. I have worked on myself and my lifestyle so that now, I am surrounded by more women than I know what to do with. You have to understand that everything that you are telling us is working against you is a choice. You want to go to a photo club where there are no attractive women? That’s a choice. You want to live a lifestyle where you don’t see any single or available women? That’s a choice. You don’t want to do something to make yourself more confident? That’s a choice. I have made an entirely different set of choices. You are exactly where you’ve decided to be and I predict things won’t change.
–Lee
JT–where are you? Are you in a city, or have access to a city? Can you go to galleries, or museums, or other art-related societies that are more mixed-age?
Photography (as any of the visual arts–or the arts in general) offers tons of opportunities to meet women.
Also, JT–if you know that over the last year at least 4 20-something are into you, well, no reason why that should change this year. So focus some of your attention on being more responsive when you do get the signals–great advice here for that.
Thanks. Makes sense.
I could join all the photo groups but the make up could be the same. Besides where would I find the time to attend them all between work, gym three nights a week and hockey games during that season. Surrounded by women huh? You obviously have something else going on you are not saying. Has to be a special reason. As for confidence, not all men can have super confidence because we are all different. Just like women. For women to expect that men become carbon copies of one another is ludicrous. Men and women should be accepted as they are with all their faults. Guys that have that superconfidence have it because women threw themselves at them to begin with. This one I know for a fact as I had friend for years who had this. I saw firsthand the ego this created and how women became disposable to him. This is why I believe superconfidence is unnecessary. I will not lower myself to be that kind of man. I am only somewhat confident but it suits me. Egomania doesn’t. If you are wondering about the gym. There are attractive women there but most women there are jersey shore types and unworthy of any attention from me. I live in ri and there are not many options to meet women here. So to sum up what you said yeah I am screwed. I would like to have a woman in my life and a family of my own but because I refuse to be a cookie cutter man the odds are extremely slim. Btw. Notice that I do not berate or hate women. Nor will I do so as the women I have gotten close to have been great to me.
@Jt
I never had that natural confidence you talk about. Women never threw themselves at me. When I was your age, I took a workshop that opened my eyes to the possibilities. With some success came more confidence, and with more confidence, more success. Your argument – that people should be accepted for who they are – makes sense if people are also happy with what they have. Meaning, if I love food that makes me fat and being fat makes me less attractive to women, you wouldn’t really argue that I should expect women to overlook that I am fat, would you? It is I who should accept that I have made a lifestyle choice that makes me less attractive to women. Just as it is you who should accept that where you live, your interests, your insistence that you shouldn’t be expected to change are all factors that limit your choice with women.
–Lee
Ok. What you say makes sense. I have made a couple of changes. One: joining a photo arts group. Two: losing thirty pounds and working out three times a week. Beyond that I wouldn’t know where to begin changing to meet women.
@Jt
If you have successfully lost thirty pounds, you have done something that is as difficult to do as it is to get better with women. Think about what it took. You changed your diet. If you eat three meals every day, it means you changed your behavior for at least an hour and a half every day. If you went to the gym three times every week and spent an hour there and half an hour of travel time, it means you’ve changed your behavior for four and a half hours every week. You probably read some literature on what it takes to lose weight or how to exercise. And maybe you even hired a personal trainer. This is the kind of commitment you will have to make to getting better with women.
Is it worth it? To me, there are three pillars of a full, rich life – personal, family, and work. Having a desirable woman in my life fully overlaps two of those. Family also covers my relatives, so only part of that is my own family, the quest for my own wife and children. And not all of my personal life is social. Some of it is reading, movies, hobbies, etc. Nevertheless, I would guess that my satisfaction with my romantic life is responsible for about a third of my overall satisfaction with my life. That’s a heck of a lot, and if you’re like me, you’re leaving a lot of happiness on the table if you don’t address that need.
So, how far should you be willing to go to achieve happiness in one third of your life? Suppose that the rest of my life is perfect and I determine that certain elements of my life are obstacles to being 50% happier – in other words, I am two thirds as happy as I can be. How far would I go to change things? Pretty damn far. I would move, take up a new hobby, change how I dress, learn how to approach women, etc. I may even sacrifice some part of my life to make this happen. In other words, say I make a decent salary but have no desirable women in my life. I might forego a big promotion to make more time to meet women. This is not irrational. We’re talking about a third of my happiness!
You want actual suggestions for what steps you should take? I will gladly weigh in.
–Lee
Please do. Suggestions would be helpful. Thanx.
I’ve heard anti-nice-guy essays, rants, and random postings from a variety of different perspectives, and this seems to be one of the less derogatory ones, with a nicer(ha), more rational community backing it up. But it still has the fundamental problem that all the others had…. a failure to define exactly what a “nice guy” is. Is a “nice guy” the pathetic, out of shape little doormat who constantly tries to be friendly with every women nearby, but secretly harbors dreams of rape, as is claimed elsewhere? Is it a person with good intentions who is simply to much of a coward to take an approach that puts him out of his comfort zone? Is it someone who is dedicated to some utilitarian code of ethics, perhaps handicapped by deception, deliberate or otherwise, of his moral calculus? Is it just someone who wants to be kind to others?
Defining “nice guy” is critical, or else one runs the risk of missing the intended audience, or even of some particularly nasty equivocations.
I have a way about me that gets women interested, but I don’t know how to push it, whats the first thing I should say that would also let them know I’m interested? It’s always seemed unclassy to me to just “go for it” I’ve done the whole “chat them up” thing but afterwards I back down since I wasn’t really being myself and my sole purpose was to get them interested. This all seems like shit to me. I’d rather be a good person and make a girl happy. Thats always been the greatest reward to me. Sex is disposable but it’s a necessity.