Why the Nice Guy Fears Approaching Women
March 11th, 2007 by 
Eric Disco
In the past, I was the nicest guy in the world. That was my M.O.
I was nice with everyone.
All the time.
I always put people ahead of me.
I think I could have gotten a gold medal in the Nice Olympics.
I did it because it made me feel good about myself.
I had my first real relationship with a woman when I was 18 years old. It lasted two years.
This is very sad and disturbing for me to admit, but even though I really wanted to break things off with her, I stayed with her for a year longer JUST BECAUSE I FELT GUILTY.
I thought that this girl NEEDED me. I wanted to be a good person. I wanted to HELP her. I felt like I was being there for her, although I knew that ultimately I needed to break up with her.
After that mess of a relationship ended, I became best friends with a girl who was severely depressed. I felt like I was helping her. Although she was gorgeous, I didn’t really like her as anything more than a friend. She was obsessive and depressive and that was a turn off.
But I was best friends with her. We would talk for hours on the phone almost every day. She would go from guy to guy obsessing over why he didn’t like her. And I would be there for her as a friend.
I would try to help her figure it out. Of course, I enabled her obsession and made it even worse without me knowing it. But I felt like a saint. I felt like I was truly doing something good for somebody, even though I wasn’t happy. The relationship lasted years.
Being a nice guy was integrally tied to my self-esteem. Everywhere I went, I would put others ahead of me. I eventually read a life-changing book called Codependency No More. It taught me how to be responsible for my happiness and not other people’s.
If you have the terminal Nice Guy disease, this book is a great place to start to get over some of that. It helps you to understand boundaries within relationships and how caretaking too much can be detrimental to everyone involved.
But how is this related to pickup and approach anxiety?
Women are turned off by the nice guy. While most healthy women don’t want someone who is going to be mean to them, there’s a difference between being kind and being a disgusting wussy.
In my first relationship, I was a disgusting wussy. You know that guy, the one who says “Is everything okay with you? Are you sure? Are you really really sure?”
He avoids conflict at all costs. He wants everything to be smooth. Not only does this person lack honesty in the relationship, but he lacks all backbone and any thoughts and feelings of his own. He’s a wet blanket, not a person.
I was the nice nice nice guy. And I also had huge approach anxiety. These two are related.
Part of approach anxiety is a strong tendency to avoid conflict. You don’t want to BOTHER the girl. You wouldn’t be able to handle it if you did something to make her not like you.
Or if, God forbid, you creeped her out? It would take you weeks to get over it.
It doesn’t take a brain surgeon to realize that relationships are about two independent people coming together out of strength rather than out a of desire to feel good about helping some other person.
Being super nice can kill attraction in seconds. Attraction is based on a push/pull. A bit of teasing. Show the girl that you are willing to lose her. Make her take responsibility for her half of the interaction. She wants to be challenged!
Instead, the nice guy wears insecurity on his sleeve without knowing it. He sees it as a badge of honor for why he doesn’t succeed with women. He clings to it to cover the pain of failure.
It’s good to be nice to women. But hoping that meekness will attract women is a fallacy. Niceness on this magnitude is read by women as overcompensation for not having balls. It is overcompensation for not being willing to take true risks.
Want to get out of Nice Guy Land? Try taking a few risks.
Try saying “Ewww” every once in a while when the girl says something, just to keep it interesting.
Try teasing her. Lovingly call her a brat or a nerd. “That’s so cute, you’re such a dork!”
When you throw in some spice like this, it shows you aren’t a yes man, but a true human being that can interact with her, call her on her shit sometimes, and give her a spank on the ass when she’s been bad.
She’ll love you for it.
Posted in Acceptance, Attraction | 
89 Comments »
March 11th, 2007 at 2:02 pm
Wow! I’ve never looked at it this way.
March 11th, 2007 at 2:24 pm
Thanks! I’m going to stop to be the nice guy for now. It’s so true what you’ve been written here, i really have nodding acquaintance with this, i really do.
Thanks again
March 11th, 2007 at 2:28 pm
Well said, this is a realization ive had in the last few months and wish I knew about it earlier, good stuff
March 11th, 2007 at 3:06 pm
The best advice I can offer is to take a girl seriously. Saying ‘ewww’ or calling her (lovingly) a ‘dork’ does not qualify: neither does saying ‘yes’ all the time. The girl in question needs, of course, to merit such attention. If she doesn’t, move on.
March 11th, 2007 at 5:11 pm
That’s the best way I’ve seen it put, not degrading to women, but it explains to nice guys why they’re putting themselves out there to be walked all over. Excellent job!
March 11th, 2007 at 5:35 pm
Being nice shouldn’t disqualify someone from being assertive. I think for a lot of people, this deals with confidence (though not for you) as much as anything else.
March 11th, 2007 at 5:53 pm
If you want women to stay interested in you, you have to act like you don’t give a shit about anything. How do you do that? Can we have an example of what you mean, you ask? Sure. If she says, “Hey, want to go out Friday to the bar?” You say, “Yeah, let me call you Thursday and let you know then.” Then don’t call Thursday. Call Friday afternoon and don’t mention “forgetting” to call. Stuff like that is what makes them want you. Another thing to do to see if a chick is interested is not saying to her, but just up and leave the room, see if she follows you around. Shit like that.
March 11th, 2007 at 6:10 pm
Hey man, I used to be in the same zone. You definitely hit some of the high points. The hardest part for a “nice guy” to understand is that women don’t find men interesting that are giving into them all the time, even though a nice guy will say “I gave her everything she wanted”. And sure women say they want a “nice guy”, but they want is someone who has a backbone and can stand up for them, but nice in the sense that they don’t abuse her, not nice in the sense of give into any any request she has.
Anna, are u serious take a girl seriously? Approaching women and dating is about having fun and flirting. Telling a woman ‘ewww’ or ‘dork’ are definitely good ways to do that, not in a stern mean voice, but in a light hearted teasing manner.
March 11th, 2007 at 8:54 pm
gawd, you’re just now figuring this out? haha, that’s gold. chicks HATE nice guys. always have. nice guys are pussies. girls want bad, dangerous boys who treat them like shit. and the chicks who say otherwise are lying. give them what they want.
March 12th, 2007 at 5:25 am
That’s true about nice guys but the advice at the end is terrible. Come on if you want to show you’re a man, be a man don’t go “Ewwww” on her. Be affirmative, stand your ground and stop being kissey-assey.
March 12th, 2007 at 7:14 am
Hey thtz 1 damn gud blog tht i totally agree wth…..xcept for th “Eww” part!
A guy bein Jst to PERFECT,SWEEEEEEEEET,NICCCCCCCEEEE ,n agreein wth evrythin th grl says is a Night mare!!Or wud say a Total Turn oFF!!
Girls love it ven being challenged..
Soo..who evr wrote ths blog,G8 job,coz atlast som1 cud put it in writin,else it wud hav been a lot more difficult xpressin it thru speech!!
March 12th, 2007 at 10:00 am
[...] Some choice excerpts: Women are turned off by the nice guy. While most healthy women don’t want someone who is going to be mean to them, there’s a difference between being kind and being a disgusting wussy. [...]
March 13th, 2007 at 3:42 am
(Male)
Nothing applies to everyone. Little of any norm applies to me.
And I’d prefer to find a girl the same way.
I don’t like a challenge, **** a challenge. I don’t want push/pull, **** that. I know exactly what I want in a female and I don’t need some game to tell me what’s what. I know I’m in a minority on this because every guy I’ve mentioned this too said they don’t want that.
Are there any girls out there that don’t want a game?
and are NOT sluts and are NOT submissive to abusive idiots.
Wish I knew where they lived..
March 13th, 2007 at 4:41 am
I had this same problem. Thank you for helping me. As I was reading I knew you had co-denpendency problems… I have it and I’m going to get this book.
If you’re too nice they walk all over you. I tell this to myself but sometimes I’m a sucker to it all.
March 13th, 2007 at 7:22 am
[...] More data: Begs the question, do nice guys have to finish last? [...]
March 13th, 2007 at 8:47 am
its about boundaries as you said. you dont let her into places where she dont belong (emotionally), and she shuld do the same. you should not here her life story on date 1. you shuld be hearing about her dreams and who she imagines her self to be if she didnt have her own hangups. you should let her be this person, by doing as you say, calling her on her shit. example: “ive always wanted to go back to school to do xyz, but lfe is just so complicated now, and i just have no time so I do like my job, and what I have now.” nice guy respinse: “yeah i know what you mean… i feel the same way. but at least things arent THAT bad!” normal person respoinse:”fuck that girl! sure things are complicated, but if thats something you really want in life, your going to lay down and let your shitty job and a buncha shit you dont like in your life take the place of finding what you want? come on, on first impression meeting you, you dont seem the complacent type… etc etc etc…. ..
build her up by tearing her down a bit and letting her know you know she has the freedom and choice to be who she wants to be, you will let her be that girl, you will trust she can live on her own, if SHE can stand up – and let her know you dont want the complacent girl who finds comfort. she will then reward you for keeping her on her toes by learning to deep throat!
March 13th, 2007 at 11:21 am
Great article, thanks for posting this.
March 13th, 2007 at 12:21 pm
[...] read more | digg story [...]
March 13th, 2007 at 12:57 pm
[...] Why the Nice Guy Fears Approaching Women [...]
March 13th, 2007 at 1:31 pm
hi everybody.
i’m a nice guy.
HI NICE GUY
thanks for the article. will have a look at the book… i definitely need to get a backbone…
March 13th, 2007 at 10:09 pm
girls love to date bad and dangerous guys, they marry the nice guys. try be a mix of both
March 13th, 2007 at 11:40 pm
I completely agree with Horus, I guess I am a part of the minority of guys who doesn’t want to play a “game” and knows what kind of woman we want.
I wish I knew where they were too Horus….
March 14th, 2007 at 12:45 pm
[...] I don’t know how, but it seems that ryan being single has become a project of sorts. .. to several different people lately. And I’m not sure how to interpret it. .. Ok so it’s been.. .. well. A good number of years since I’ve been in a real relationship. Co-workers have always tried to set me up, and continue trying. .. one comment from one of my good friends (Bl00k) commented recently about me: ‘When it says, ” i luv teh internets” under your picture and you say that your computer is yearning for you at home, I think it’s time you get out and meet some women.’ Then later that SAME day, I see a digg article about some ghey website for nerds who don’t know how to meet women.. And i actually related a little to that article (seriously, how pathetic is that?). I do suffer from the ‘terminal nice guy disease’. But I’m no doormat either. [...]
March 14th, 2007 at 5:36 pm
What? Horus, you don’t want push/pull, you want no game? Those kind of girls must be the most unpleasant people to be with!
I love push/pull cause it get you invested and it’s the point where you have to show whether you got balls or not. Maybe you guys looking for those perfect chicks simply don’t understand that
1. Those chicks you want will not fall for you…
2. If you don’t have the balls, then you don’t have the girl.
Eric is spot on. Take more than a few risk and you’ll be the guy girls (and people in general) will want to be around.
March 14th, 2007 at 6:26 pm
[...] LINK [...]
March 14th, 2007 at 10:18 pm
[...] A website to help you stop being the nice guy that finishes lastread more | digg story [...]
March 14th, 2007 at 11:37 pm
Be the nice guy. Don’t believe this blog post and comments saying not to be nice.
March 15th, 2007 at 5:33 am
Thanks, EXTRA thanks.
March 15th, 2007 at 4:08 pm
Killer post as always…keep ‘em coming!
March 15th, 2007 at 5:08 pm
This article is lame.
Sorry, author, but it is.
“Getting a girl/keeping a woman” is not like buying a new car and maintaining it.
Ridiculous.
There are no guides to help you make your purchase. No friends to tell you if they think it’s the correct one for you. No mechanics to offer their opinion on “how long this baby will last, if you drive it how it should be driven”.
This is why the girly mags suck so much… everything, and everyone, in these mags gets a label… and there are no variables. So quizzes are made to determine if a relationship “will work out”. Advice is given because “a relationship is currently working out” (for the author). And it’s all bullshit.
If you follow the advice in this article you are not in a relationship, you are in a performance; an actor trying to maintain a role for as long as humanely possible.
The secret answer to the relationship “lock” is: There is no key. Hell, there isn’t even a lock.
The following is not relationship advice, it is life advice: Just be yourself. And let other people be themselves. Don’t judge. Don’t label. And hope for the same in return. There is no script to read. No forced dialog. No fake smiles, no faux grimaces. Be legitimate in every action, and inaction, you take and I fully believe life will surprise you in the end.
March 15th, 2007 at 5:30 pm
PS Eric A.K.A. Disco: Your writing is swell. And I dig the art you are throwing in. I just looked at the rest of approachanxiety.com.
You have a good eye for things and I’m not trying to discourage you from doing what you are doing because it appears you are writing from the heart.
Just recognize that this can easily tip over into “inverse girly-mag” content, like this particular article seems to.
There’s a fine line between writing about self-discovery and prescribing it for others.
That’s all.
March 16th, 2007 at 7:02 pm
I think this is one of the best article on the “Mr. Nice Guy” disease… maybe it’s should be called the “Mr. TOO Nice” phenomenon. I’ve been there!
The thing is being nice is not bad… but you still need to show self-respect. When you tie being nice to your self-esteem (like too many guys do), that’s when it gets bad because you are looking for validation and acceptance from the people around you.
I guess we should blame society for pushing the idea that women are delicate, soft and cuddly creatures to the extreme. Yes, they are delicate, soft and cuddly but you don’t need to use extra special care to “deal” with them as if you are going to break them.
Be kind. Don’t be TOO nice
March 17th, 2007 at 1:56 pm
You know, you are probably right for the majority of women out there. But i can assure you that there are women, like me, who fall for the nice guys. That said, it’s true that you are narowing down your chances of finding someone when you arent targeting the majority. But, quality is better than quantity no? I’m not saying that the girls who dig nice guys are better, but generaly the ones who go for Mr bad boy arent much of a loss.
Just my 2 cents.
March 21st, 2007 at 9:43 am
Hey good article. I’m a 20 year old who’s only been with a couple of girls for that same reason, being too nice. I’ve always figured that girls will grow up and they’ll eventually get sick of the assholes but I think that I need to change a bit of my nice ways as well.
March 24th, 2007 at 8:44 pm
I have spent the last 2 years trying to figure out this whole man woman thing. Hours upon hours reading, researching and asking women questions. Ever since grade school girls would shit on me. I learned through conditioning to be non-confrontational with the opposite sex. It carried over into my adult hood (I’m 33). Only asked a few girls out and never really got any where. Then once the girl got to know me I would get the old. “I wish I could meet a guy like you” “I wish my boyfriend / husband was like you” I would say I’m available and get the old “Nooo! your to nice”. (What the hell?) I (the nice guy) would also get the “Why don’t you have a girlfriend?” line all the time. Every nice guy has heard that over and over. It’s so bad that even some strippers wont dance for me or take my money, but sit and tell me there whole life story and not even let me buy them a drink. I become the “buddy”. (Nice guys and strippers is a whole other story) Not dating, having sex or seeing a stripper naked is our reward for treating women with respect and being nice (It suck’s!!). A nice guy has to be nice 100% of the time. If he wavers even a tiny bit he’s cast to the side like garbage. While the bad boy can be an ass 99% of the time and the woman waits for that 1% of niceness to show. It’s a stupid game women play and nobody wins. The rules are never the same and a woman can make them up as she goes. Women do things to us that they wouldn’t tolerate for a second if we did it to them. I have come to the conclusion that women have no idea what they want. Have no idea what a nice guy is. Can’t tell the difference between a confidant man and an asshole. Have zero logic. Want to be dominated and told what to do by a man 90% of the time. Want us to know exactly what they are thinking from the first meeting with out any clues from them. It’s hard work to stop being so nice and not be afraid to be a man around women. I’m still working on it and the biggest help was realizing that really hot girl that shot me down and treated me bad. Is more sad and pathetic then I could ever be. Shake those women off that pedestal and look down on them. They don’t want to be equal. Most really are afraid of heights. Don’t be afraid to talk to her. What is she going to do, have NO sex with you more? Never put a woman above you or feel sorry for her. It will take time, but you will feel so much better about yourself after awhile. Thank you
March 27th, 2007 at 8:33 am
Horus:
I agree about not wanting to play the game.
The only way to get out of it, from my experience,
is if you’re exposed to a large enough pool of women,
you’ll eventually stumble upon someone who’s so
into you that there is no need for game-playing.
That said, it’s still good to not be overly nice,
to limit your availability.
Remember, women aren’t looking for “jerks” or
“bad boys” so much as someone that touches
their emotional core in different ways.
“Nice guys” offer an unmodulated, straight-ahead
experience for women that’s usually dull
and predictable.
March 28th, 2007 at 8:27 pm
[...] I feel that our world is becoming too politically correct. Girls are taught to constantly express their independence and strength to prove they can be equal to men. Boys are taught to suppress their natural competitive and more masculine urges out of tolerance for the other person and in order to avoid conflict. I believe this is the real cause for the “terminal Nice Guy disease” that Eric “Disco” M. from PU101 wrote about. [...]
April 8th, 2007 at 5:54 pm
you know, its very funny that I should come across this website. A few friends and I were discussing what we wanted at a bar the other night after having to many drinks and having all become a little bit to open. The women at this table were all between 30 and 50 and most of them were pretty successful. Several worked in positions of authority. They were all smart, driven, strong, and they new it. but as we sat there drinking and pouring out our souls we all admitted we didn’t really want to have to be strong. We liked the idea of being “the weaker sex”. We wanted to be treated like we were delicate and although we didn’t want men to be jerks, every now and then we just wanted to be taken by the shoulders, given a shake, and just be told what to do!
But we all admit that its not something thats really possible in our society. if we don’t step up and take charge of things then our little worlds will fall apart.
April 11th, 2007 at 7:34 am
[...] A website to help you stop being the nice guy that finishes lastread more | digg story April 11th, 2007 | Category: General Sciences | [...]
April 16th, 2007 at 2:46 am
It’s good to know where Approach-Anxiety is coming from: it a fear that is implated in you by society. And it’s not always fear, it pure adrenaline!
Unfortunately there ist only one way to overcome it: by doing it!
The key for me are three things: detachment from the outcome, body-language and practice.
Eddie
June 11th, 2007 at 10:58 pm
I am a 29 yr old male 6′3 3/4’s when I was young I used to live a good established life till my parents wanted to move to another location I had one sister at the time, I was in grade 6 at the time, so I finished my grade off at the old house and started my new grade 7 in another school , let me tell you it was hell I was picked on the first day at school, then a girl I liked told me we should be boyfreind and girlfriend I was so happy I told me sister and she was happy for me , then at the end of the day the girl broke my heart and said she was joking about liking me I was devastated, long story short that changed me and it is through david dangelo, vin dicarlo and brad p(whom I admire the most) that got me back on track and now it is time to kill the nice guy in me and be the jerk 99% of the time!!!! Life is right nice guys do finish last!!!! You can still be a nice guy but only 0.5 percent thats it anything more and you lose your chances!!!!
July 7th, 2007 at 9:05 pm
Women want to be treated like shit!! The only women that ever loved me and wanted to get me in bed were the ones that I was cold to and rude to. I think a lot of this stems from so many girls not having fathers growing up and are looking for a protector figure.
If you treat girls and women like you treat guys you will do fine. Don’t worry about offending them because most girls and women are no good any way and are so screwed up in the head that they don’t know what they want. Does anyone remember after Ted Bundy murdered many people? Well, at his trial the courtroom was filled with women wanting to give him love letters!! May be women have a deep down desire to get brutally murdered!! All women are messed up bad!!
July 31st, 2007 at 7:49 pm
I stumbled upon this article and now i have a question: how does one nice girl get one nice guy to stop being such a wuss. i really like one of my good friend’s roommates, and i know he is attracted to me, but he’s the typical “nice guy” and he doesn’t want to make any moves. this is partially b/c his roommate, our mutual friend, has told him not to, but i just want this guy to see that our friend doesn’t control who can or can’t talk to me. i even told him that, but he’s still pussyfooting around the whole issue. how can i get him to stop being so timid/nice/wussy so we can connect (and hopefully score)??
August 4th, 2007 at 4:04 am
Glad to see other.
November 20th, 2007 at 9:49 pm
so what are some decent pick up lines. what if she has a tennis bracelet; what exactly does that mean? How do u get her to talk to you and ditch the rich bitch boyfriend that bought that thing for her? im not rich, im a grad phd student, not ugly, just a nerd and my ex taught me how to dress. i dont wear glasses. but there is a hottie in my class that id like to kick it with but i dont know where to go from there. we’ve done lame shit like study together, but i mostly listened to my ipod and studied at the same table. suggestions?
November 29th, 2007 at 12:15 pm
I am one of those nice guys who doesn’t like playing games like Horrus, Be nice and Random guy. I was in a 6 year relationship and the girl left me because I became too nice, since that I have dated multiple girls who drop me after 3 or 4 seemingly good dates because (I assume) they got bored of me because I am too nice. After the last one I have been spending more time than I care to mention researching every blog and article on the internet to try and make sense of why nice guys finish last. And the most common response from women regarding nice guys in their 20’s is the following:
If you want to be with someone right now, you have to change, be a dick, don’t call her back, don’t open doors for her, cheat on her when possible and all that shit. But if you are like me and unwilling to change into this a**hole, then all you can do is wait until your 30, by then all these girls will have dealt with enough jerks and are now looking for guys like us.
My personal conclusion, I’m waiting.
December 3rd, 2007 at 10:39 pm
This is a great site! I stumbled upon it by accident looking for general anxiety info (ya know… for all situations not just The Approach!)
I am really glad I found it. I will be coming back here.
Thanks !
Anxious Guy
December 8th, 2007 at 6:11 pm
[...] A website to help you stop being the nice guy that finishes lastread more | digg story Posted in Uncategorized | Leave a Comment [...]
December 12th, 2007 at 6:21 pm
[...] A website to help you stop being the nice guy that finishes lastread more | digg story [...]
December 14th, 2007 at 10:49 pm
[...] A website to help you stop being the nice guy that finishes lastread more | digg story [...]
December 26th, 2007 at 5:31 pm
[...] Re: Best advice for 21 y o beginner welcome. pheros will help (much stronger than the placebo effect). but it takes time (months, even a year) to learn to recognise how. you still need to develop yourself… the blog below isn’t a bad place to start. Approach Anxiety » Blog Archive » Why the Nice Guy Fears Approaching Women [...]
January 11th, 2008 at 11:54 am
I also think to many men compliment women to much. You are give up too much power. Stop that shit. If you see a hot babe somewhere recognize it for what is is, NOTHING. So what she’s hot, so what. It doesn’t make her tits & ass any better, and it certainly doesn’t make her smarter. SO THE FUCK WHAT.
STOP LOSING CONTROL AROUND ALL WOMEN, BECAUSE IT’S COSTING ALL MEN ALLOT OF CONTROL.
January 17th, 2008 at 4:59 am
Why nice guy fear to approaching women, because no money no car, no house, no skill, no ideal and no no….. to many no if i want to list up.
the import is no CONFIDENT, SCARE LOSE.
February 26th, 2008 at 3:57 pm
My oppinion on this is that Mr Nice guy attracts Ms Dominant girl who will from the beginning try to find ways of controling him and slowly isolating him from his buddies in order to get his full attention. Could be that this type of girls have less friends of their own and they dont relay too much on social ranking.
On the other hand many better looking girls, blondes etc like to be told what to do and stuff, they like to be dominated, so Mr Nice must be a turn off for them. So the bad guy is just the guy for them.. also, they have a lot more friends and social ranking is important for them, so the guy must have good communication skills, must protect her from other needy guys and so on.
March 25th, 2008 at 1:55 am
why is it the nice guys that get such a bad rep? from what i’ve heard, it is the nice guys that end up living a happy life and end up getting all the chicks in the end and end up getting married.
besides, i don’t understand how the jerk guy actually has any “confidence” at all. if he so into hurting people, wouldn’t that mean that he has lower self-esteem and less confidence from the start?
April 5th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
The author is absolutely right. Having been too nice too many times.I have now learned to treat women like they behave.and they are full of you know what too ! you have to call them out and not be a wuss 1 let them know who’s first … YOU! and you will have their respect if you insist on not being a man and treating them like women they will walk all over you ! Over and Over and Over again .You want to know why you’re not getting any because if their tiny minds you are not a man! They expect you to challenge them , take charge and call them on their bull .If you don’t they take advantage of you ! There is a such thing as being too good and it’s boring. I ‘m no longer the nice guy .I am me and I really don’t give a rats behind what they think. It’s about what I want, remember this .
April 13th, 2008 at 10:46 pm
Hey Guys,
One thing some of you misunderstood:
- It’s NOT about being an asshole and treating women like shit.
- It’s about not being a wuss and saying ok to whatever she says/does if you don’t actually think it’s true. It’s about not giving up (all your) power.
- The tip with the eww (a nice eww of course) and such: In smalltalk-situations this works, because it may be that you find that thing she said just now “eww”-ish, she has no way of knowing if you really do. It’s a good thing if your too nervous to actually respond with real ewws when appropriate. Just be careful, she might ask you why you think it’s eww-ish, and then you better have a good answer (don’t back down then!)
That’s about it. Now I’m going to approach the subway girl. (Actually it’s not a subway, but a train… =)
April 14th, 2008 at 9:44 am
it’s like this whole article was written about me. I’m really glad i found this website. For now on i’m going to not nice.
June 11th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
OK…I just had to chime in on this very close to home hitting topic. My (in)”significant” other of almost 30 years now is loaded with “fear of approaching women”. He refuses to extend himself PERIOD! Rejection being the KEY issue on his part. So instead of taking ANY chance at all that he might experience one tiny bit of rejection…he lives in an unreal world of complacency and IMHO tedium. We have come to a parting of ways at this point…I refuse to continue to put forth effort that inevitably results in rejection…though not of him…but of ME! I moved out for a year and a half and upon moving back in told him point blank that I expect him to take some initiative. That was August 2007 and here it is almost August 2008…and…as I figured…not one crumb has he tossed my way. All the while insisting that our lack of intimacy is solely MY fault because I no longer “enable” him to kick back suppressing his feels and desire all the while expending negative energy while I put forth 200% effort with less than nothing to show for those efforts. Nice guys finish last…well I say non-involved, door-mice finish last. that is unless they have a crazy co-dependent partner that’ll carry their weight over the finish line. Probably only come in 3rd or 4th even then. lol lol
All this talk of “nice guys” has made my over-active brain latch onto a song from my absolutely favorite comedience…the late…great…Bill Hicks. Track 15 on his Relentless album is truly appropriate to these discussions…and good for a little comedy relief at that. So I have uploaded the track for those of you who care to partake. I guarantee it’ll set your toe to tapping and tickle your funny bone…if you still have one. I’ve used Turboupload.com to host the file. The link to download the approximately 4mb mp3 file is:
http://www.turboupload.com/download/My06z8StSPW9/BillHicks-Relentless-15-ChicksDigJerks.mp3
Don’t get too worked up over the psycho-babble that is part of being human. As Bill stated many times…and I wholeheartedly agree with his assessment. “Humans are a Virus with Shoes”. Bill’s major philosophy always brings me back to center…when it’s all more than you can bare… just remember…”It’s Just a Ride”!
Keep the Flow…Been There—Done That!!!
June 17th, 2008 at 1:44 am
I have plenty of problems with this issue too, but:
2 Stories:
1)
I had a great girlfriend once. She was in good shape and took care of herself. She was nice. -But it turned out the sassiness never kicked in. -And she was 1-Dimensionally Nice.
After awhile, she was just too boring.
I think a MAJOR issue with the stereotypical “nice guy” is that he can become almost 1-Dimensionally nice, and turn bland instead of a guy who gets a girl fired up.
2)
I worked at a café and this girl and her guy ordered. I made their stuff in normal time and stopped to mention something to a waitress in the otherwise empty place.
The girl at the table pipes up and says something nasty about the wait. I bring the drinks over, and as I’m walking away, I say “Bitch.” under my breath.
Lucky me, the owner shows up and gets complained to 5 minutes later. In front of this girl, he asks me to apologize. I said, “I’ll apologize to You for being petulant and unprofessional, but I’m not apologizing to an abusive customer.”
I didn’t get fired. ~10 days later, I go down the block to a bar. Guess who’s tending that night? -The nasty girl from the shop. I have a couple and 3 weeks later, I find she’d not even charged my CC for the drinks; I had a receipt with no hit on my bank account.
=>SO: Sometimes, having either the conviction or the SE to speak your mind and stand your ground rightly, while saying ‘F*** You’ to the negative consequences that ~might come your way, could miff a girl in the short run, but after she’s pissed about it for the first 48 hours, she’ll probably RESPECT your strength.
–
But yes, I too have been brainwashed by Movies and TV and sometimes think the only way to succeed with people is to be Super Duper Nice 100% of the time.
Obviously, there’s got to be a way to balance 1 extreme against all the criminal/antisocial aspects of another and be the best of both with none of the drawbacks.
June 23rd, 2008 at 4:37 am
That’s just it. You are not being a nice guy genuinely. You are being a nice guy to get something from women. To be rewarded. This is why I do not like nice guys. They annoy me and I want nothing to do with them.
I do not date assholes either. Bad boys are not the type of men I date.
In essence, you nice guys are not that different from bad boys. Both groups act a certain way to gain something from women. No thank you. I will continue enjoying the single life.
July 19th, 2008 at 7:32 am
hmmm…mb its true ,
August 15th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
I have been to searching on the internet of why nice guys finish last! The truth is it depends on the girl. I agree 100% you do need that balance of being nice and being a jerk. But be a jerk in a funny positive way. Basically like a cocky funny type cause honestly that’s what really attracts women. Women want a nice guy but also part of them ( that they don’t say or express) want a little bit of a bad boy a little spice so to speak. I to wish to find a nice girl out there (mostly the shy girls) but it’s rare nowadays. I think to society has a reason behind this cause you hear most about sex all the time and how you should never be alone and only cute guys should date cute girl ect. That’s why people should join activites or if you are in college try to join a faternity.
August 21st, 2008 at 3:05 pm
entertaining read with some elements of truth. but as we all know, women (humans) are dynamic creatures. how they look, act, feel, etc. one likes to get drunk in seedy bars, and another won’t have a drop, and just wants to stay home and watch soap operas. so, the advice of this column could be true for one situation, but not another. the question is, what percentage of women will you score, and on what level? a quick shag? a lasting relationship? the rule of thumb is… and you can never say otherwise… you stand a 50/50 chance… heads or tails. period. be a prick. be a saint. depending on which way the wind blows will determine your fate. but you have to interact, make an attempt, and not be a lamp post. unfortunately gender roles still do exist, and for the most part, men have to make a play. my last g/f actually pursued me, which was brilliant. in terms of attitude (good vs. bad), i think we all fall in the middle, and situational moments dictate course of action. you can’t be yourself 100% of the time. $0.02
and never forget… the sexes ARE different… fact of life
September 3rd, 2008 at 6:47 am
Oh, Jane if it were so simple, then all us nice guys would just say ‘oh, that won’t work then? I’ll try something else’. I am not a ‘nice guy’ in order to get something out of anybody. I am a ‘nice guy’ because it’s burned into the synapses of my brain since childhood. My parents were more worried that I’d grow up to be a smart ass and never noticed that I really didn’t have much self esteem at all. I can’t put the blame on them for my problems but my upbringing sure doesn’t help.
When I read articles like this one I almost want to cry (yes, how wussy – but I actually I never cry) because I’m not sure I’ll ever be able to change. Being nice and caring about everyone’s opinion is who I am and who I’ve been for decades.
So, Jane, when I read a comment like yours that just makes light of the whole thing, I really get pissed off. Don’t assume you know everything about everyone.
September 9th, 2008 at 8:06 pm
I think a lot of people are getting the wrong idea. Time to face reality (and perhaps state the obvious). Being a bad boy works simply because it communicates to women that you don’t need them, and it keeps them entertained, and it will also show women that other woman want you. This is how a bad boy demonstrates value. But you don’t need to be a bad boy to accomplish this. Think in simpler terms… The bleak picture painted by Darwin with his “survival of the fittest” theory is a reality. Power, money, good looks, high social status, entertainment skills, intelligence, etc., are favored by women in the mating game. Just being nice has no reproductive advantage at all, but neither does it hurt your chances with a woman, as long as you are being nice on your own terms, not her’s (that would be considered weak, submissive, attributes you must avoid at all costs). You can be whoever you want to be, and as nice as you want to be, as long as you demonstrate value to women in some way. I think maybe “bad boys” are who they are because they have no other way to show value. It works. Fortunately, I also happen to believe that people somehow choose mates based on the extent of genetic similarity, so the equation is a bit more complex, but the basic theory still holds.
September 18th, 2008 at 9:35 am
It’s not about being bad or nice, it’s about being -reasonable-. You wouldn’t want anyone else to walk over you. I mean, honestly, are you willing to sit there while say..your mother or your friend (Guy) or coworker tells you sob stories about their ex?
Someone needs to initiate, and usually, that’s the man. Fundamentally it’s a violent and aggressive task; you aren’t going to get anywhere just waiting. If the girl isn’t going to make a move at a reasonable time, then you must. Have a gameplan in mind; if X amount of time passes and you don’t progress, either you’re not being aggressive enough or things aren’t working right.
The key is to be aggressive- you back off when there is resistance, because no one wants to go to jail. You need to trust the girl to handle herself and know her limits, or what’s the point?
October 1st, 2008 at 10:48 pm
Wow, thank you, there’s this girl who I noticed like the same stuff I like I haven’t not talked to her yet SO I might still have a chance, she really cute as well.
October 26th, 2008 at 11:24 am
I read some of the posts and I think it is a great place! I like to flaunt my sure observer Do you want a joke?
What goes “moof”? A cow with buck teeth.
November 22nd, 2008 at 5:01 am
I KNOW ONLY WOMEN LOVE TOO MUCH SEX
IF YOU GIVE HER TOO MUCH SEX
DO NOT ASK YOU ANY QUESTION
BASHIR
January 6th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
Hello, thats article have opened my mind, thank you, every word you writted there is true
January 23rd, 2009 at 8:15 pm
the nice guy in article still is wuss. In the end he says to say eww once in a while that is bullsheet. you do not write manuals on what to say. You say what you feel. Honesty is the key for relationship.
February 4th, 2009 at 1:31 am
Hello, thats article have opened my mind, thank you, every word you writted there is true
February 4th, 2009 at 1:40 am
BELMASOUDI@YAHOO.CO.UK
Hello, thats article have opened my mind
February 5th, 2009 at 9:41 pm
girls r like shadow, that’s the rule. if u follow her she’ll run and vise versa. take care guys.
February 20th, 2009 at 11:26 am
“That’s just it. You are not being a nice guy genuinely.”
Jane, a lot of guys are nice GENUINELY. Go downtown and all the men that you see. 90% of them are Genuinely nice.
This article really opens my eyes. I have been too nice, genuinely, and whenever I help someone with something I don’t expect to have anything in return. Now I gotta change that… and this article is a pointer in the right direction.
March 20th, 2009 at 9:51 pm
Hey I can relate to the subject about being to nice. Good advice to those who think being nice will get them somewhere with women.
It’s okay to be nice but not a door mat. It’s not about being nice or being bad, It’s about being yourself and believing in yourself.
It’s about knowing that you are the author of your own life and what you think and believe about yourself…
April 28th, 2009 at 11:31 am
i’m a 62 yr. old male who has been married for almost 40 yrs. now who was your proverbial nice guy. i was raised by my mother to be so.
i was shy almost paranoid around girls.(didn’t mean i didn’t like them because i did) my parents were abit anti social which stemmed over to myself and my other siblings. so basically had no frame of reference in relationships with girls. was alays considered to be the nerdy unconvientunal kind of guy. i make fun of it now about myself i was one of the original nerds. in jr. high a freind and i were the only ones that carried school bags and in the early 60’s that was a no no. but i just tell everyone now my freind and i were trend setters and just didn’t know it. because if you don’t have a book bag that cost at least $50. your the one committing a no no in todays school world.
ok, i’m rambling comes with being older .
was i the proverbial doormat yes, didn’t want to be but was never the less. my jr. high school prom date was one that my sister setup for me . i wasn’t planning on going at all but she had a freind that wanted to go so she promised that we could double date for the prom. my sister was a on the hot scale a #9 so she was far more popular than i was . it didn’t make my life any easier i thought.
it wasn’t until my senior year that a freshman girl(yep a freshman) started bringing me out of my shy shell (which was pretty thick at the time) then a second classmate a sophmore encouraged me. by the end of my senior year i was at least putting a foot outside that thick shy shell i had put up. a freind of mine set me up with of all things one of the hottest freshman girls (remember girls i told you that guys do that for their freinds. ) nice thing about it she actually liked me for who i was. even though i’m married we are still freinds today. no i didn’t marry her. i had gone to the phillipine isles during the viet nom war and was there for 2 yrs. which after the first six months there i got a dear john letter from her . yes it hurt at the time . but it helped me to grow. unfortunatly i lost my virginity to a phillippino girl who really didn’t care that much about me. i was drunk at the time . why was i drunk if i was such a nice guy one might ask . after the dear john letter i was crushed emotionaly and i started just not caring any more and decided to lose the nice guy for awhile. did i get layed more
because of it (no not really but did get some ) just lost interest in trying anymore.
by the time i got back to the states made an amazing discovery phillippino girls reactions to me were extremely different than american girls were and again i was relegated to the freind zone or
being like a brother. fortunatly i had reverted back to my nice guy format. ran around with a freind i had met at work and he and i got along well he had a girlfreind and she had a girlfreind that moved in with my freind. i lived just across the dtreet from them so occassionaly they came over. we all worked for the same company and during the same shift. still somewhat lonely but not quite as shy
i decided that on friday nights i would have a creature feature beer and wine fest as we watched videos we all got off work at about 11:30 at night and creature feature came on at midnite hour…..
i didn’t know how many of my freinds i worked with would show up but hope a few . that nite i had almost to many people in my apt.
being that at the time i had no girlfreind i was able to save money and basically do what ever i wanted so i decorated my apt. to suite my taste. i lived on the coast and had visited this one restraunt and they had decor which i thought would be interesting to put in my apt.
i had fish netting strung from various places in my living room
with sea shells ,black light and very colorful pictures of seacreatures
all over the place. had a huge tv set which had a great picture tube and the color of the videos was great. between the wine ,beer ,and some dumb ass brought weed (oh,yeh that was my buddy ) i got pretty messed up that first friday. not quite sure how all this came about but some how my freinds girlfreind her girlfreind wanted or needed a ride home . i was just learning about girls body language and was aware that girls that constantl;y swirled the hair around their finger while talking to or looking at you were flirting with you subconsciencely. was sure about how to approach her so i just told her what i had heard about the hair thing and ask if it was true.(ya i was hoping it was true because she was a knock out in the looks department) her response was she was just nervous. didn’t dawn on me that she was still interested in me . (thick headed i quess) anyways this went on for quite awhile and it seeemed i was giving her rides more often for some unknown reason(like how was i to know it was planned by my freind and his girlfreind.(ya gals thats what real freinds do for freinds) well i had another freind that worked at the same company and he and i got along fairly well . he was no doudt the biggest jerk i’ve ever met but for some reason a likeable jerk.(don’t ask me to explain i don’t see how someone that was a nice guy could like a jerk but i did) anyway one weekend he envited me over to fix his tv set which i knew how to and was surprised that it was a set up to introduce me to one of his ex girlfreinds down from another state (yep again gals thats what freinds do for freinds) this however was my future wife and now 40 years latter.
believe it or not she chased me i was the one unsure of if i wanted to get involved with her.
so in answer to your question do nice guys finish last , it depends on how you define last gals and guys. because what is defined as last by some might be first for some one else. the fact i didn’t get married until i was 26 to a 24 yr.old and not straight out of high school as some of my classmates. yes i’m on classmates and many of them that
were the type of guys and gals then have been married 2 or more time and some in the dating process after another divorce. so answer is you get what you want by your life style people. you treat people badly you wind up being treated badly. thats why so many of you wind up getting involved with the wrong type of person and in so many divorces or break ups.
so take it from someone maybe alittle older than some of you that being a freind to some is a two way street if not your not much of a freind.
i’m also going to post how nice guys can get girls by reading body language and also know what body language of girls means that says don’t bother me. and those that says come get me if you dare.
you know i hate it when someone says their trying to help a guy thats asking for help and they try to sell you their book while insulting you the whole time their doing it. their is free sites that has all this info . if i had known this info when in school i may have been abit more confident upon talking and relating to girls with out fear of rejection.
but see i had no freinds that made an effort to tell me these things.
now that i know them i realized one thing i thought i was a loser with the girls because i was nieve about what girls broadcasted in signals that i was unaware of. after finding out about it i thought i was dumb. no someone told me ,dumb means not having the capacity to learn different nieve however means has the capacity to learn and change upon knowing the info.
ok , guys if you want to know what you can do and know that you won’t get shot down in flames for asking a girl out wouldn’t hat bolster you confidence and courage to do so as many of these girls say her making the first move. if you really want to know do a ggogle search for girls/women body language . believe it or not there were girls in my school interested in me i just wasn’t savy in the body language info you’ll find on the web pages you’ll read.
also to bad some ogf the girls don’t give some of this info out to their supposed to be best freinds. hmmm… it might have actually worked out in their favor if they had.
July 15th, 2009 at 11:03 pm
I’ve heard all this before. And no one can tell me how to stop being so disgustingly nice. And I’m not just being nice to get something from women. I mean I am, but I really am nice and shy and I just can’t approach them. All this pick up artist bullshit makes me so mad. None of it has been worth a shit to me. It’s fucking hopeless.
I should just die.
July 19th, 2009 at 5:03 pm
I disagree.
I think instead you should WAKE UP and realize that using these skills that are taught here does not constitute a crime against humanity and that no one of any importance will think less of you for using them.
I too seem unable to approach women without a genuine excuse, but I still use these skills to flirt with the women I do meet and to build a connection. I’m still seen as a nice guy, I think, but with an edge.
I think you should go forth and playfully tease women in every way you can think of. I think you’ll find that you will not be arrested nor prosecuted by the Police, nor will you get beaten up (lest the woman in question is a little bit on the psychotic side).
That’s just what I think.
November 9th, 2009 at 8:26 pm
Recently stumbled upon this web.
I’ll agree and disagree.
Agreed : Yes, it is no doubt, the act of being too nice is simply a turn off to majority of the women. For instance, complimenting her almost constantly, be there for emotional support, etc. While all this further underpin their status to reach to a “friend zone”, sometimes, pulling back and playing around the bush is a better alternative.
*you get what I mean, not to obvious as to what dependant stalker do*
Disagree : However, everything has an exception. Be it human personalities and the way women ID thinks. I’ve met girlfriends, and via personal experiences, that sometimes the nature of a good guy can be taken as a sign of honour within them. Thus, a plus in making their way into a relationship.
Yes, think that I’m joking. But for anyone to say that, presumably have yet to meet the other kinds of girls. =)
December 30th, 2009 at 11:41 pm
Women can be scary haha!
January 19th, 2010 at 10:48 pm
Actually it is simpler than the article makes it out to be.
Nice guys get approach anxiety because, as the article correctly points out, they get blown off every single time. So naturally they develop a fear of failure, as they eventually come to view it as predetermined.
March 5th, 2010 at 11:10 am
This is so true guys the nice guys never get the girl. I went from the cocky bad ass jerk who tons of girls were attracted to. To the no confidence nice guy who no girls are attracted to its so hard as I got older I got tons of spots and bags under my eyes I broke my nose and etc. I had girlfriends in the past really attractive ones at that. Now I cannot get a single girl since I lost my confidence and changed from the jerk to nice guy. It makes me feel so depressed I don’t know why I lost all my confidence it sucks I wish I could change it and get a girlfriend again I have not had 1 in almost 3 years and Im 20 now=\
April 1st, 2010 at 2:49 am
I think a lot of nice guys have NO problem approaching women. Its more of a fear of rejection/failure thing. Just make it a rule that you have to say hi/make small talk with anyone that comes within 3 feet of you and your approach anxiety should diminish dramatically in a month or so…
April 4th, 2010 at 3:19 am
[...] Why the Nice Guy Fears Approaching Women [...]
May 11th, 2010 at 3:37 am
Holy freakin *hit. Where the hell did you come from? Seriously if that is all I have been doing wrong with the nice guy crap then I have to say I am both pi**ed and relieved at the same time. I mean what the H**L!? Thank you for this little eye opener. Now a question I do have to ask is how far do you go being the flip side of NICE GUY DISEASE and when do you let the nice guy side come out again? I really need to know this so if you could write me back at Mojojojo5111@hotmail.com with the answer I would greatly appreciate it.
May 18th, 2010 at 9:16 pm
dont go being friends with her, and expect anything to be different down the line.
thats called sneakiness. just fucking deal with your shit as it comes, a partner is an added bonus to life, dont make them your life until your already set on your own path. otherwise you can only hurt as a result.
and about all this game stuff.just say what you say dont let any fucker get in your way. if youve built your life up enough and are faithful enough to your own needs, then you can meet anothers, but thats in thier eyes, you get different things from different people and thats for you to recieve, you must give yourself enough love before you can expect anyone else to receive. i have trouble approaching women, infact i think ive only done it a couple of times, the rest of the times were natural, and thats the way it should be. basically if you have to put on an act at all then it aint meant to be. just live your life and share some of that love for life with the worthy people. its fucking nature!! love is a part of nature, be in touch with your nature then you can make her flowers grow.
July 13th, 2010 at 8:02 pm
Man this is me in a heartbeat. Im 24 year old virgin and havent had a girlfriend at all. In the last 2 years or so ive started looking after myself and have started looking good actually. Im extremely nice and get on with the old people at my work. I think they see me as a child and are always nice to me. The girls that i do get along with see me as “Inocent” nice guy. But they dont know im a virgin. I think its just the way i carry myself. Im exactly the clone of Alan on “2 and a half men”. Alot of people think im a playa cause i look good but im just your nerdy dude that has major approach/depession/anxiety issues. People say just be yourself but that doesnt work for some of us. If i be myself im never gonna get a girl. I havent ever approached a women and it doesnt look like it changing anytime soon which is utterly disgraceful. But me, like all of us, See the world how we see it and well i see it very negatively. People are qucik to judge me and say im gay without getting to know me. If i didnt look good then i wouldnt be getting judged. Id be just your normal “geek”. But thats just who i am a computer nerd who spends his weekends on the PS3 or pc, That for the last year or so, looks real handsome.hah. But that doesnt transform me into this Suave man. And thats what people dont realise with me. Ive lived my life in isolation and sadness that it still lingers with me. And it aint going away anytime soon.
Sorry to post a novel sized post here. I just wish i could carry through with all these tips i read but i get so scared that i give up cause i rather not see the outcome. But it does hurt not having a girl after 24 years of life on this planet.
I hope none has to face the mental blocks ive put on myself. Its very stressful.
“He who hesitates, M?s?u?b?t?s!!
peace